Wow! Stay classy OU

#301
#301
VKAman said:
Plenty of countries will arrest you for speaking out against the government. This isn't one of them. That doesn't mean you're protected from any and all consequences of what you say.
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Hence I said there are consequences. And the OP said freedom of speech doesn't include freedom of consequences, that's exaclty what it means.
 
#302
#302
bamawriter said:
If a university doesn't want to associate with a racist, they shouldn't have to. If a bakery doesn't want to associate with a gay wedding, they shouldn't have to either. Racists shouldn't want to deal with schools that don't want them, and gays shouldn't want to do business with bakeries that don't want them either. The market would thus take care of itself.

I fail to see how that stance is an advocacy for "verbal purity", whatever that means.
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"Verbal purity" is ridding the language of words that certain people do not want to hear by punishing those who speak them.
 
#303
#303
Otis07 said:
out of the approximately 10,000 posts, that would be the second time, (maybe)
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There are less than 300 posts, it's been said by 2 guys in here and I pointed out, a highly regarded civil liberties attorney who happens to be black as well, was interviewed last night and said that the school president overstepped his bounds in expelling them, much to the dismay of the host.
 
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#304
#304
volinreallife said:
No, you are trusting him because your outfit matches his.

True story
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Or because he has formal training in the subject and I expect him to understand it more fully than one who doesn't. I work and studied in the field of agriculture, I hope I'm better at trying to raise a corn or cotton crop than one who simply knows what a corn plant looks like.

True story.
 
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#305
#305
bowlinggreenvol said:
Or because he has formal training in the subject and I expect him to understand it more fully than one who doesn't. I work and studied in the field of agriculture, I hope I'm better at trying to raise a corn or cotton crop than one who simply knows what a corn plant looks like.

True story.
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Well let's hope you change your outfit before planting said crop of corn or cotton.
 
#306
#306
VolunteerHillbilly said:
We just disagree. I think strict scrutiny applies and there's no way OU can meet that burden.

it's not the act, it's the basis for the act that due process compels OU to articulate.
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OU has a Code of Conduct. While I'm not familiar OU's specific CoC, I'm confident that the President of the University is the ultimate arbiter in cases involving violations. This particular case may not truly run afoul of the CoC, and due process may well have been violated; I won't pretend to know.

But, what I do know is that Codes of Conduct can restrict certain behaviors, even if those behaviors would typically be considered "free speech" in the public sphere. And Codes of Conduct have been upheld in Court on many, many occasions.

In basically boils down to this:

You have the right to be a racist idiot. You do not have any guarantee that you can be a racist idiot AND a student at the University of Oklahoma at the same time.
 
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#307
#307
BeecherVol said:
If the market decides to, I agree. Its not for me to say the market should or shouldnt (whether I agree with the action or not). That is left up to the individuals that make up the market.

Allow the public (their peers) to carry out the repercussions here and in the business world, not the government arm. I don't equate "it" to the market in this sense.
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Government entities have the right to choose not to do non-mandatory business with anyone, as long as that decision isn't based upon a prohibited trait like race or gender. If the government doesn't want to employ a certain contractor because he has made racist comments in public, the government can do so. If a government entity does not want to take the money of a racist idiot in exchange for a public undergraduate education, the government entity has that right.
 
#308
#308
Just curious- if I typed a bunch of racial slurs into a post, is it the opinion of some here that me being banned would be unconstitutional?
 
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#309
#309
1972 Grad said:
"Verbal purity" is ridding the language of words that certain people do not want to hear by punishing those who speak them.
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If my favorite restaurant's owner was outed in an online video singing a racist chant, I would no longer frequent his restaurant. Is that "punishment" in your eyes? To me, it's simply choosing not to associate with a racist idiot. I'm not attempting to silence him, I just don't want to be around someone like that.
 
#310
#310
bowlinggreenvol said:
There are less than 300 posts, it's been said by 2 guys in here and I pointed out, a highly regarded civil liberties attorney who happens to be black as well, was interviewed last night and said that the school president overstepped his bounds in expelling them, much to the dismay of the host.
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Attorneys can hold any opinion they want. In any civil or criminal dispute, 50% of the attorneys involved will turn out to be wrong in their stance.
 
#313
#313
bamawriter said:
Attorneys can hold any opinion they want. In any civil or criminal dispute, 50% of the attorneys involved will turn out to be wrong in their stance.
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That's because 50% going in know they're wrong from the get go and hope a jury is stupid enough to be swayed. Michael Meyers isn't representing these kids and has no dog in the fight. If he was their attorney of course his opinion could be taken with a grain of salt.
 
#315
#315
bowlinggreenvol said:
That's because 50% going in know they're wrong from the get go and hope a jury is stupid enough to be swayed. Michael Meyers isn't representing these kids and has no dog in the fight. If he was their attorney of course his opinion could be taken with a grain of salt.
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None of what you wrote means he's correct. It means he has an opinion.
 
#317
#317
bamawriter said:
None of what you wrote means he's correct. It means he has an opinion.
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And I'm trusting his "opinion" over yours, sorry.

Was a code of conduct even cited by the president? You keep throwing that out there and then follow it up with I don't know their code of conduct. If they violated that, then fine, it's grounds for dismissal. Although I will continue to disagree with his authority to legislate what one does in privacy and it's impact on their abiltiy to remain enrolled at school. But if it has nothing to do with a code and he made swift decision because he didn't like what they said then likely have an arguement for remaining in school.
 
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#318
#318
bowlinggreenvol said:
And I'm trusting his "opinion" over yours, sorry.
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And that's the wonderful thing about opinions.


Was a code of conduct even cited by the president? You keep throwing that out there and then follow it up with I don't know their code of conduct. If they violated that, then fine, it's grounds for dismissal. Although I will continue to disagree with his authority to legislate what one does in privacy and it's impact on their abiltiy to remain enrolled at school. But if it has nothing to do with a code and he made swift decision because he didn't like what they said then likely have an arguement for remaining in school.
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The letter is brief. He cites nothing other than the "hostile educational environment" that he believes the bros created. The bulk of the letter is dedicated to explaining the appeals process.
 
#319
#319
bamawriter said:
And that's the wonderful thing about opinions.




The letter is brief. He cites nothing other than the "hostile educational environment" that he believes the bros created. The bulk of the letter is dedicated to explaining the appeals process.
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I get a kick out of the hostile environment. It occured off campus, amongst no blacks and very few if any of those guys would dare to say it to someone's face if given the chance, for myriad of reasons.
 
#320
#320
bowlinggreenvol said:
I get a kick out of the hostile environment. It occured off campus, amongst no blacks and very few if any of those guys would dare to say it to someone's face if given the chance, for myriad of reasons.
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If the kids want to fight the expulsion, they have the opportunity to do so. If they win, good for them.

As to your point regarding the chant being "amongst no blacks": that really doesn't matter. One can be offended by racism even if one isn't the target. From the reports I've read, the girl who taped it and put it online did so because she was offended by the chant.
 
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#321
#321
Bjorn_Yesterday said:
Nah, bitter. Instead of thinking "I bet he really liked taking dates to formals and semi-formals at awesome venues" you went with "Dude's gotta be a snob...because Greek life."

Alpha Chi Omega is a women's fraternity. You have a nice day, too.
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well yeah, since I'm a woman... :eek:lol:

Dang, now I have to work on not noticing that you have some preconceived notions about who posts here. :)

eta: and I don't think "Dude's gotta be a snob...because Greek life." I just think you're a snob. No causality assumed or implied.
 
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#322
#322
I agree with ****writer (sorry, couldn't bring myself to type the first part of the username). It doesn't matter where you say or do something. If it is able to be reproduced with audio and/or video, you are liable to suffer personal consequences for it. You can't be killed by or deported from your state or country for it. But you sure as hell are liable to be fired by your employer, disassociated from your organization or ostracized by your friends/peers/colleagues. How is this difficult to understand?
 
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#323
#323
bamawriter said:
If the kids want to fight the expulsion, they have the opportunity to do so. If they win, good for them.

As to your point regarding the chant being "amongst no blacks": that really doesn't matter. One can be offended by racism even if one isn't the target. From the reports I've read, the girl who taped it and put it online did so because she was offended by the chant.
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Being offended and these 4-5 students, that are visible, creating a hostile learning environment are two different things. If their names hadn't been released, who's to say that any offended black could've even picked them out on campus from that grainy video?

Everyone knows there are racists on almost every college campus, every workplace, every team, every organization etc. Seeing it in a video shouldn't suddenly open your eyes to that. It doesn't or I should say, shouldn't affect your college experience and definitely not the ability to sit in a classroom and focus and learn.

Nooses hanging from every sycamore trees on campus or a megaphone on the quad shouting at every black who walks by I'd understand hostility, this I don't believe qualifies as that.
 
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#325
#325
bowlinggreenvol said:
Everyone knows there are racists on almost every college campus, every workplace, every team, every organization etc. Seeing it in a video shouldn't suddenly open your eyes to that. It doesn't or I should say, shouldn't affect your college experience and definitely not the ability to sit in a classroom and focus and learn.

Nooses hanging from every sycamore trees on campus or a megaphone on the quad shouting at every black who walks by I'd understand hostility, this I don't believe qualifies as that.
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I don't totally disagree with you. I'm not sure that I would have expelled them if I had Boren's job.

But, PR is a very important factor in decisions like this. While they'll never come right out and say it, OU doesn't want this kind of incident connected to their institution because it's a PR disaster. Even if it doesn't really affect anyone's learning environment, it very well could dissuade potential students from choosing OU or a donor from writing a check. We already know of one football player who has decommitted from OU because of it, so it's not outside the realm of logical thought for Boren to be concerned about how this will effect future enrollment or donations.
 
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