Wow! Stay classy OU

#276
#276
bamawriter said:
It receives university sanctioning.
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Then why don't we just let the universities randomly assign the 400 rushees to the individual fraternities? Is the university going to back my "right" to be admitted to Alpha Si Alpha even though I'm white or a sorority if I'm a gender confused male?
 
#279
#279
1972 Grad said:
Why? People are being refused services, just for different reasons.
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I believe that businesses, or the people who run them, should have the right to refuse service regardless of the reason. If the reason is a bad one, then the market should punish the business.
 
#281
#281
bowlinggreenvol said:
Then why don't we just let the universities randomly assign the 400 rushees to the individual fraternities? Is the university going to back my "right" to be admitted to Alpha Si Alpha even though I'm white or a sorority if I'm a gender confused male?
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If the school insisted upon that requirement for sanctioning, they are within their rights to do so. I would assume very few greek organizations would seek such sanctioning.
 
#283
#283
bamawriter said:
I believe that businesses, or the people who run them, should have the right to refuse service regardless of the reason. If the reason is a bad one, then the market should punish the business.
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But you believe that a university has the right to refuse service based on what a student says? A university is just a bunch of individuals running a really big business.

When people like you have achieved verbal purity in society, will you think that you have solved the underlying cause of the offensive language, or just put your foot on the people's throats to where you can't hear it?
 
#284
#284
bowlinggreenvol said:
A college is a state institution, therefore it's an extension of the government.
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And there is no federal or state constitution that guarantees college admission. So expulsion cannot violate one's right to free speech.

Colleges have codes of conduct. OU's might not really allow for expulsion in this case. I don't know. But if it does, that CoC does not violate the first amendment.
 
#285
#285
1972 Grad said:
But you believe that a university has the right to refuse service based on what a student says? A university is just a bunch of individuals running a really big business.

When people like you have achieved verbal purity in society, will you think that you have solved the underlying cause of the offensive language, or just put your foot on the people's throats to where you can't hear it?
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If a university doesn't want to associate with a racist, they shouldn't have to. If a bakery doesn't want to associate with a gay wedding, they shouldn't have to either. Racists shouldn't want to deal with schools that don't want them, and gays shouldn't want to do business with bakeries that don't want them either. The market would thus take care of itself.

I fail to see how that stance is an advocacy for "verbal purity", whatever that means.
 
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#286
#286
bamawriter said:
And there is no federal or state constitution that guarantees college admission. So expulsion cannot violate one's right to free speech.

Colleges have codes of conduct. OU's might not really allow for expulsion in this case. I don't know. But if it does, that CoC does not violate the first amendment.
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This is the same university who is not refusing admittance to Joe Mixon. Is it more acceptable to break someone's jaw than it is to use a derogatory term?

This was a move made out of political correctness and nothing more. Boren is petrified at the attention and unwarranted reputation his university would receive from the liberal media. The only news outlet(s) that likely picked up the Mixon story were the sports outlets, it's not a hot enough issue for MSNBC to "waste" their time on. If he didn't make a move, OU would've be on every news outlet in the country, just as they pretty much already have.
 
#287
#287
Megyn Kelly of Fox News, who is also an attorney, just touched on the OU situation and said there are questions as to whether or not the school has the legal right to expel the students. She ran out of time to dive into it further and said she'd address it at another time.

Sean Hannity had Michael Meyers Director of the New York Civil Rights Coalition (and a black man) own his show this evening and Meyer says the 1st Amendment protects racial hate speech and the students should not have been expelled. Says the President of a public institution, an extension of the state gov't, has infringed upon their 1st amendment rights. Meyers is a highly regarded civil rights and civil liberties attorney.

Conservative radio talk show host, David Webb (also black) was on as well and agreed with Meyers. He said above the bigotry and hate, he weights free speech higher and the students not only had the right to say what they did, they had the right to do it without reprimand. Oddly enough, Sean Hannity disagreed with both of them. This is definitely an interesting topic to say the least.
 
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#288
#288
Just out of curiosity any chance they sue SAE fraternity? According to the Clay Travis article the chant is well known in southern chapters of the frat and not isolated to the OU chapter. Of course Clay's information is from anonymous emails stating it is a well known tradition.
 
#289
#289
bamawriter said:
If you work for the State of Tennessee, and you get filmed saying something horribly racist while away from the office, the State absolutely has the right to fire you.

The First Amendment only protects you from being sent to prison, fined, executed, or deported for exercising your right to free speech. It does not guarantee you college admission or employment.
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First, I apologize for the fry basket crack. I think this is a frustrating subject for me and I'm probably going to stop following it.

Second, the issue to me isn't a guarantee of admission issue. These people were already admitted. You can't expel them from a public institution without due process, assuming they seek it. Once due process occurs, the public university will have to state the basis for their action which seems to be that people said a word they don't like in the context of maintaining racial exclusivity of a private club. I don't think a state actor can limit the speech and association rights of duly admitted students. If this happened at Vandy, I'd agree that the school can do pretty much whatever it choses. Public schools, not so much. I get the idea from family comments that the students who've been expelled are probably just going to tuck tail, go elsewhere and hope this doesn't follow them around forever so it's very likely a moot discussion.
 
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#290
#290
The Ron Mexico said:
I can say whatever I want. My job can fire me if they want. I can be banned from a message board. Neither of those things violate my 1st Amendment rights. If you're gonna say it, be man enough to suffer the consequences.
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The first amendment only applies to the government. OU is an extension of the state government and any rules or policies they have must not infringe exercise of protected rights. Most of your posts I've read accurately reflect how a non-governmental actor can respond to free exercise but it's just not the same for government action.
 
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#291
#291
VolunteerHillbilly said:
The first amendment only applies to the government. OU is an extension of the state government and any rules or policies they have must not infringe exercise of protected rights. Most of your posts I've read accurately reflect how a non-governmental actor can respond to free exercise but it's just not the same for government action.
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Expulsion from a public university does not equate to State action.
 
#293
#293
bamawriter said:
I believe that businesses, or the people who run them, should have the right to refuse service regardless of the reason. If the reason is a bad one, then the market should punish the business.
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If the market decides to, I agree. Its not for me to say the market should or shouldnt (whether I agree with the action or not). That is left up to the individuals that make up the market.

Allow the public (their peers) to carry out the repercussions here and in the business world, not the government arm. I don't equate "it" to the market in this sense.
 
#295
#295
Bjorn_Yesterday said:
You sound bitter...
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lol, not at all. I'm nearly 40 years out of college. I went through rush, got offered (can't remember the jargon) by Alpha Chi Omega, and ultimately decided not to join. I had friends who were Greek and friends who weren't, and there was pretty much the same distribution of great people, good people, and flaming a-holes in both groups.

I was speaking about your sentence that seems to reveal an impressive level of snobbery on YOUR part.

Have a nice day. :hi:
 
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#296
#296
In a perfect world, I do not think that disbanding them would be necessary. The video getting out is punishment in itself, their reputations with less hateful people are probably irrevocably damaged. However, I understand the reality of the situation being that the school did not want the constant protests and media attention that would continue to tarnish their reputation, so I do not blame them for acting as they did.

That being said, I have little sympathy for the members exposed. I do not doubt that some participating were probably just being dumb college kids and following their grand wizard ringleaders in song, and perhaps their racist feelings differ little from others(whether they admit it or not). However, they are their own people, and they had the capacity to end their relationship with the group once they recognized the racial undertones that were obviously present. They certainly had the capacity to not participate in the song. I don't really think anyone who has attended college and been around frats is shocked by their behavior here. I'm more shocked that a member was actually dumb enough to take a video and post it online. I guess maybe there are some who are surprised by the video and believe it's an eye opening revelation about the existence of rampant racism in modern times, but to me, this is confirmation of my own experiences in life. Some people still really care about race, and though it's gotten much better, some people will always have that hate no matter what.

This isn't about thought police or freedom of speech. No one is contesting their right to sing a song. No criminal charges will be filed. It's about the public being less accepting of baseless hate.
 
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#297
#297
bowlinggreenvol said:
In what country can't you say whatever you want? If you do though, you'll face consequences. That's not freedom. There's almost always repercussions if someone disagrees.

Your examples are all private entities free to do as they please. I don't believe a gov't institution should have the right to curtail what individuals say.
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Plenty of countries will arrest you for speaking out against the government. This isn't one of them. That doesn't mean you're protected from any and all consequences of what you say.
 
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#300
#300
VolNExile said:
lol, not at all. I'm nearly 40 years out of college. I went through rush, got offered (can't remember the jargon) by Alpha Chi Omega, and ultimately decided not to join. I had friends who were Greek and friends who weren't, and there was pretty much the same distribution of great people, good people, and flaming a-holes in both groups.

I was speaking about your sentence that seems to reveal an impressive level of snobbery on YOUR part.

Have a nice day. :hi:
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Nah, bitter. Instead of thinking "I bet he really liked taking dates to formals and semi-formals at awesome venues" you went with "Dude's gotta be a snob...because Greek life."

Alpha Chi Omega is a women's fraternity. You have a nice day, too.
 

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