Yahoo Sports lowers the boom on Miami

#376
#376
bamawriter said:
I disagree, scholarships all disappear at once. The kids who are there now can transfer with no sit-out year.
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Yeah I agree. Let the kids have a chance to move on. This is a university issue. The kids have no chance in that environment.
 
#377
#377
Just heard an interview with the guy that broke the story. He stated that Miami has been informed that the SoL may not be enforced in this situation and info going back to 02' may be ruled on.

Bad situation may get worse if true.
 
#378
#378
Like I said, I'd take away every schollie Miami has to offer for two years. After that, they have to abide by the 25 schollie limit. It would be six years before they'd be back to a full slate of 85.
 
#379
#379
bamawriter said:
This article makes the rather dubious claim that if you don't get the death penalty or a TV ban, you aren't getting a harsh punishment. I can think of plenty of other punishments that would be totally appropriate.
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Not a dubious claim in the least. If this is true, there is nothing appropriate short of banning them from playing for a year. Until the punishment is worse than the collective gains received perpetrating a crime, there is no reason for schools to stop this behavior. Coaches involved should be banned from coaching as well.
 
#380
#380
bamawriter said:
I disagree, scholarships all disappear at once. The kids who are there now can transfer with no sit-out year.
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As a college football fan, and someone who wants to see the game cleaned up: I agree with you 100%

But I dont think the NCAA has that set of brass balls.


I think they will take away 2 years of schollys right away. No Freshman schollys and take away a second years worth of schollys to be spread among the remaining classes.

Then, leave the 2nd year with no freshman schollys as well. That leaves the bottom two years with no schollys. Only the remaining Jr and Srs will have scholarhips. (those that were freshman and sophs at the time of the punishment)

Then give the schollys back 25% at a time. Thus lengthening the punishment another 4 years. So they would not be back up to full scholarships until year 7.


Something like that, anyways.
 
#381
#381
bamawriter said:
Like I said, I'd take away every schollie Miami has to offer for two years. After that, they have to abide by the 25 schollie limit. It would be six years before they'd be back to a full slate of 85.
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I think we are pretty close in our thinking.
 
#382
#382
GatorBill said:
Since we know there is not going to be a "death penalty" or even a 2 year suspension of the program, I would think that a 2 year suspension of schollys, and then allow the scollys back about 25% at a time, starting in year 3, that would be a fairly reasonable suspension.

Im not expert, and not a hater. Just brainstorming as to what might happen or be reasonable.
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I know. I was just giving you and LawGator a hard time. All but the most irrational Canes fans whould know that the NCAA is going to leave the lube at home for this one.
 
#383
#383
GatorBill said:
I think we are pretty close in our thinking.
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I think so.

I simply don't like the idea of leaving any schollies, because I think it hamstrings the kids who are currently there. I say let everyone move on without any restrictions, and for the U to sell their program without free rides to offer.
 
#385
#385
Thrasher865 said:
This would = death penalty.
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SMU was banned from playing completely for a year. No Football. Then the 2nd year they were banned from Homegames, and only allowed to have the away games so that the away schools would not have to lose their home game. SMU backed out of that agreement and chose to have the 2 years off completely.


I dont see the NCAA stripping anyone of an entire season.

I see what you are saying about it being a death penalty in theory, but the ban on schollys would be much easier to come back from, IMO.
 
#386
#386
Thrasher865 said:
This would = death penalty.
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Close, but not quite. They would still be allowed to be on TV, thus they'd still make TV money. Same goes for the money they make in ticket sales and concessions (though I don't know how well they'd draw given that no one seems to show up when they are at full strength). While they wouldn't win a game, they'd at least be able to make money, which is critical for their athletic department.

Of course, if the NCAA levied the sanctions I laid out, Miami might choose to not bother fielding a team for those two years. Then again, the ACC may require them to play if they aren't barred from doing so.
 
#387
#387
It's not about the money. I mean sure college football is all about the money, so this statement sounds contradictory, if that's even a word, but this penalty wouldn't be about the money.

In two years, UM would be able to start recruiting and get 25 scholarship players, with those players knowing they would be the only scholarship players on the team? They know they wouldn't win a single game. They would only be able to get glorified walk-ons. Then the same the next year, and this would continue for a decade or two, until big name recruits are confident there is at least adequate talent around them and are willing to commit to the U.

They wouldn't come back from the dead in year 3 and get a class of 25 3 and 4 star recruits. So it would be waaaaaaay longer than 6 years. Death penalty.
 
#388
#388
bamawriter said:
Close, but not quite. They would still be allowed to be on TV, thus they'd still make TV money. Same goes for the money they make in ticket sales and concessions (though I don't know how well they'd draw given that no one seems to show up when they are at full strength). While they wouldn't win a game, they'd at least be able to make money, which is critical for their athletic department.

Of course, if the NCAA levied the sanctions I laid out, Miami might choose to not bother fielding a team for those two years. Then again, the ACC may require them to play if they aren't barred from doing so.
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I find it funny a Bammer supporting the death penalty. Do you have any idea how close you guys came a few years back? When, and I do mean when you get nailed again it will be funny how your tune will change.
 
#389
#389
Thrasher865 said:
It's not about the money. I mean sure college football is all about the money, so this statement sounds contradictory, if that's even a word, but this penalty wouldn't be about the money.

In two years, UM would be able to start recruiting and get 25 scholarship players, with those players knowing they would be the only scholarship players on the team? They know they wouldn't win a single game. They would only be able to get glorified walk-ons. Then the same the next year, and this would continue for a decade or two, until big name recruits are confident there is at least adequate talent around them and are willing to commit to the U.

They wouldn't come back from the dead in year 3 and get a class of 25 3 and 4 star recruits. So it would be waaaaaaay longer than 6 years. Death penalty.
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so they would be a middle of the pack ACC team?

Edit: :eek:lol:
 
#390
#390
If you don't literally shut that program down for five years, what message do you send to every other school, agent, coach, and recruit out there? That if you get caught in what is effectively the biggest cheating/illicit behavior scandal in at least the past 30 years -- and maybe ever -- you are going to get yelled and be a bad team for a few year but then everything is okay?

Every time I consider what is alleged to have gone on, how many people were involved, for how long it went on, and the depth and breadth of the knowledge of the people in charge, I am absolutely astounded that anyone would argue for anything less than a complete shut down for a decent period of time.
 
#391
#391
Someone in Ray Ray Armstrong's camp has come out and completely denied that Ray Ray has had any dealings with Nevin Shapiro. Hopefully this is true and we can add his name to the names of the kids that the NCAA has cleared to play.

My hope now is that Shapiro has "trumped up" his story in regards to the current players and Randy Shannon's staff. The interview mentions that around 2008, Shapiro was pissed because the University was cracking down on relationships between boosters and players. It's obvious he was heavily involved with the players between 2002 and 2006-2007, but Randy Shannon was known to run a tight ship. I'd love to hear that a lot of these current players that were named can clear themselves.
 
#393
#393
MemphisCanes said:
Someone in Ray Ray Armstrong's camp has come out and completely denied that Ray Ray has had any dealings with Nevin Shapiro. Hopefully this is true and we can add his name to the names of the kids that the NCAA has cleared to play.

My hope now is that Shapiro has "trumped up" his story in regards to the current players and Randy Shannon's staff. The interview mentions that around 2008, Shapiro was pissed because the University was cracking down on relationships between boosters and players. It's obvious he was heavily involved with the players between 2002 and 2006-2007, but Randy Shannon was known to run a tight ship. I'd love to hear that a lot of these current players that were named can clear themselves.
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There are multiple sources corroborating stories on almost all of these guys.
 
#394
#394
hog88 said:
I find it funny a Bammer supporting the death penalty. Do you have any idea how close you guys came a few years back? When, and I do mean when you get nailed again it will be funny how your tune will change.
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Someone can't read. I've said over and over again in this very thread that I don't want, nor do I expect, Miami to get the DP.
 
#395
#395
MemphisCanes said:
Someone in Ray Ray Armstrong's camp has come out and completely denied that Ray Ray has had any dealings with Nevin Shapiro. Hopefully this is true and we can add his name to the names of the kids that the NCAA has cleared to play.

My hope now is that Shapiro has "trumped up" his story in regards to the current players and Randy Shannon's staff. The interview mentions that around 2008, Shapiro was pissed because the University was cracking down on relationships between boosters and players. It's obvious he was heavily involved with the players between 2002 and 2006-2007, but Randy Shannon was known to run a tight ship. I'd love to hear that a lot of these current players that were named can clear themselves.
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The disconnect I see in your reasoning is that, if in 2008 the administration began to "crack down" on relationships between boosters and players, that implies that the administration was aware of at least some problems and did not self-report them.

In my view, the only possible "out" for the U right now as an institution is to try to compartmentalize the damage. And "cracking down" due to these problems makes that issue much worse, not better.

It just seems unfathomable that these boosters would be meeting with all of these kids, hanging out, buying them stuff, giving them cash, hookers, etc., and that it went on for 10 years or so and involved so many players and coaches, and no one in administration knew .... or at least bothered to ask some questions.

That may be the ultimate undoing here a la lack of institutional control. For this to have gone on at these levels means either a blind eye was turned or there never were eyes on the program to begin with.
 
#396
#396
copied and pasted my post from yet another thread on this subject------->and GO:

I dont think that most people understand what the "death penalty" was for SMU.

It was only a 1-1/2 year penalty as it was originally used.

1 year with NO football. (1987 - conditioning only, no pads)
1 year with NO HOME GAMES (1988 - SMU decided to scrap the whole season)

Loss of 55 scholarships over 4 years.

They did not field a full squad until 1992.

also:
Quote:
Since 1989 SMU has defeated only 2 ranked teams, has had only 2 winning seasons, and is 64–158–3.[8] The Mustangs would not return to a bowl game until 2009; they won the 2009 Hawaiʻi Bowl on December 24, 2009 over Nevada by a score of 45–10. The death penalty decimated the Southwest Conference's reputation and finances, contributing to the collapse of the entire conference in 1996.

I got this all from wiki:
Death penalty (NCAA) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I cannot believe I am even close to defending the U, but a complete and total death penalty is not a relevant punishment. I think a 4-6 year MAJOR reduction of schollys is a very harsh punishment. The removal of a couple recruiting classes would put this program to it's knees.

Not all of those who are left in the program deserve that, but there are many who do, and that is usually not the case in these situations.
 
#397
#397
#1ArencibiaFan said:
If they do strip tons of schollys, I hope they redistribute them to other sports. Not fair to punish future athletes for this.
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Im not following this:
1) you strip the schollys from MiHammy Football
1a) Football players that are looking for schollys have to go somewhere else, or play for free.

2) You want to give the schollys to other sports at MiHammy?
2a) Joe Blow, who was the starting free safety would now be on a track scholly. . . . and would also play football.

Not going to work. Kids suffer everyday because of the actions of adults. My own kids suffer everyday because their mom didnt have better taste in men. (no pics)
 
#398
#398
No.... we understand perfectly what the death penalty is and was for SMU. All I was saying, if that was directed in my direction, was that a two year total elimination of scholarships would be the equivalent of the death penalty.

Maybe I exaggerated a smidge, but not much. It would decimate them for well over a decade.
 
#399
#399
bamawriter said:
Someone can't read. I've said over and over again in this very thread that I don't want, nor do I expect, Miami to get the DP.
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I can read, you suggested the AA take away every scholly for 2 years. This is effect the death penalty.
 
#400
#400
Thrasher865 said:
No.... we understand perfectly what the death penalty is and was for SMU. All I was saying, if that was directed in my direction, was that a two year total elimination of scholarships would be the equivalent of the death penalty.

Maybe I exaggerated a smidge, but not much. It would decimate them for well over a decade.
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I think it probably should. If there is a situation that merits it more than this one, I would actually be afraid to see it.

The difference between what I'm suggesting and the DP is that it wouldn't cause the collateral damage that the DP inevitably would. Other schools get screwed by a team getting the death penalty or a TV ban, and that shouldn't be allowed to happen. If Miami could still play, but with nothing but walk-ons, the damage is isolated to Miami.
 
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