You're the Imam

#26
#26
volinbham said:
Irrelevant to the hypothetical here. Even assuming the best intentions the decision is questionable at best. If you want to promote tolerance and understanding; the table is set perfectly. The good will from building elsewhere would be enormous.

Regardless of the true intent; given the current state of affairs the answer seems fairly obvious.

Can anyone make a compelling argument for how going forward is the better way to promote inter-faith tolerance and understanding?
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Rauf doesn't believe in interfaith dialogue, at least that is what he says in Aribic to his Arab audience, and probably what he preaches in mosques here in America.

What you propose will fool some people, but then some people have unrealistic views and want to be fooled.

American Thinker: So What Happens If The Ground Zero Mosque Moves A Few Blocks?

Nanzi Pelozi is calling for an investigation into everyone who opposes the victory mosque.

That should take quite a while since, if polls are accurate, over 200,000,000 American oppose the victory mosque.



utvolpj said:
so people in a town like Murfreesboro would be more welcoming? Face it, building a mosque almost anywhere in the US is bound to be met with resistance
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Resistance is building, albeit far too slowly.

"It is easier to resist in the begining than in the end."
Leonardo Da Vinci

9/11 Families for a Safe & Strong America

The notion that the 9/11 attacks improved the standing of Islam in the minds of Americans is, of course, preposterous. But bin Laden’s misunderstanding of American political culture mirrors a pervasive misunderstanding of Arab political culture. The “strong horse” concept really is an important factor in Arab politics, where political legitimacy is all too often won by demonstrating the ability to kill.
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For fourteen hundred years mosques have been used as armories.

Muslim Brotherhood’s plan to Islamacize America including their master plan: ‘An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Brotherhood in North America’.

On page 7

4- Understanding the role of the Muslim Brother in North America:

The process of settlement is a “Civilization-Jihadist Process” with all the word means. The Ikhwan [Arabic for 'Muslim Brothers'] must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all other religions. …

5- Understanding that we cannot perform the settlement mission by ourselves or away from people:

A mission as significant and as huge as the settlement mission needs magnificent and exhausting efforts. With their capabilities, human, financial and scientific resources, the Ikhwan will not be able to carry out this mission alone or away from people and he who believes that is wrong, and God knows best. As for the role of the Ikhwan, it is the initiative, pioneering, leadership, raising the banner and pushing people in that direction. They are then to work to employ, direct and unify Muslims’ efforts and powers for this process. In order to do that, we must possess a mastery of the art of “coalitions”, the art of “absorption” and the principles of “cooperation”.

Beginning on page 10 (and continued on page 11)

17- Understanding the role and the nature of work of “The Islamic Center” in every city with what achieves the goal of the process of settlement: [bold added theirs]

The center we seek is the one which constitutes the “axis” of our Movement, the “perimeter” of the circle of our work, our “balance center”, the “base” for our rise and our “Dar al-Arqam” to educate us, prepare us and supply our battalions in addition to being the “niche” of our prayers.

This is in order for the Islamic center to turn – in action not in words – into a seed “for a small Islamic society” which is a reflection and a mirror to our central organizations. The center ought to turn into a “beehive” which produces sweet honey. Thus, the Islamic center would turn into a place for study, family, battalion … the office of the domestic political resolution …

In brief we say: we would like for the Islamic center to become “The House of Dawa”‘ and “the general center” in deeds first before name. As much as we own and direct these centers at the continent level, we can say we are marching successfully towards the settlement of Dawa’ in this country.

Meaning that the “center’s” role should be the same as the “mosque’s” role during the time of God’s prophet, God’s prayers and peace be upon him, when he marched to “settle” the Dawa’ in its first generation in Madina. from the mosque [emphasis added mine]

Page 18:

Attachment number (1)
A list of our organizations and the organizations of our friends
[Imagine if t they all march according to one plan! ! !] [bold here and below added mine. Altogether, the document's authors listed 29 organizations, plus 11 sources and media tools that should be within each 'Islamic Teaching Center']

1- ISNA = ISLAMIC SOCIETY OF NORTH AMERICA
…
ISLAMIC TEACHING CENTER
…
= ISNA FIQH COMMITTEE
= ISNA POLITICAL AWARENESS COMMITTEE
…
22- IAP = ISLAMIC ASSOCIATION FOR PALESTINE [reinvented as CAIR in 1984]
…
26- ISNA = ISLAMIC CIRCLE OF NORTH AMERICA
…
28- IIIT = INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR ISLAMIC THOUGHT
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This is from 2004, no doubt others have been added to that list, including some of the groups founded by Feisel Abdul Rauf.
 
#27
#27
In the muslim brotherhood's statement to it's adherants, when it says; "we would like for the Islamic center (meaning every islamic center in America, including the recruitment of violent crimilals in prisons) to become “The House of Dawa”‘ , that is reflected in similar statements of purpose by Abdul Rauf of the Manhattan victory mosque and curltural center.

First we must understand that 'dawa' means.

They tell us that means 'missionary outreach' but there is quite a bit to it that doesn't meet the eye.

The New York Post reported on Aug. 3 that Rauf “told a London-based Arabic newspaper that he will turn to Muslim nations for funding” to pay for the $100 million mosque. Also, Fox News’ Geraldo Rivera noted that the development company that purchased the property for the mosque has a strange financial history. Sharif El-Gamal, the real estate developer who put down the $4.8 million to buy the property in 2006, worked as a waiter at a New York restaurant in 2002, just four years before.

(America's rags to riches dream can take some very strange twists.)

Rauf has also bragged in Arabic language outlets that the grandchildren of the victims of 9/11 will be muslims through dawa.

In July 2010, journalist Andrew McCarthy revealed that What’s Right with Islam was originally published in Malaysia under a different title: A Call to Prayer from the World Trade Center Rubble: Islamic Dawa in the Heart of America Post-9/11. That book was indirectly funded by the muslim brotherhood, one of the most radical international groups in the world which has been the mother of al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah and numerous other islamic terrorist groups and worked in close cooperation with the Nazi party of Germany up to and especially during WWII.

Dawa, whether done from the rubble of the World Trade Center or elsewhere, is the missionary work by which Islam is spread.... Dawa is proselytism, but not involving only spiritual elements — for Islam is not merely a religion, and spiritual elements are just a small part of its doctrine. In truth, Islam is a comprehensive political, social, and economic system with its own authoritarian legal framework, sharia, which aspires to govern all aspects of life.

The purpose of dawa, like the purpose of jihad, is to implement, spread, and defend sharia. Scholar Robert Spencer incisively refers to dawa practices as ‘stealth jihad,’ the advancement of the sharia agenda through means other than violence and agents other than terrorists. These include extortion, cultivation of sympathizers in the media and the universities, exploitation of our legal system and tradition of religious liberty, infiltration of our political system, and fundraising. This is why Yusuf Qaradawi, the spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood and the world’s most influential Islamic cleric, boldly promises that Islam will ‘conquer America’ and ‘conquer Europe’ through dawa.”

Markaz-ud-Dawa-Wal-Irshad is an organization that opposes any Christian missionary work and has Lashkar-e-Tayyiba as its armed wing. You can find on the web videos of them and other similar groups beheading Christian missionaries, so much for the religious tolerance of islam. The recent arrests in Dearbornistan is only the tip of the iceberg.

If we had anything faintly resembling an objective media in America, more people would be far more aware of the true nature of current events in the world.
 
#28
#28
Rick Warren needs to go to Baghdad and announce plans to open up a new Christian mega-church. Keep the funding secret and demand tolerance in the name of outreach.
 
#33
#33
Not sure if you've seen the email circulating about the 'potential' for a gay bar opening around the corner from the mosque/cultural center - names to include:

Turban Cowboys, Suspicious Packages, Submission, Outfidels, Brokeback Mecca, Très Sheik, Infidelicious, Shake your Shi'a, The Camel's Hump, Allah's Closet, The Pink Crescent, The Queeran, JiHot!, Ram-a-Dan, Turbinatrix, Lady Agha, Al-Gay-Da, Allah Cock Bar, Yassir That's My Booty, Homohammed's, The Ba'ath House, The Circle Turk, You Mecca Me Hot, The Lonesome Camel, Talibuns, and Ground Queero.

Yes I know...intolerant of me.
 
#34
#34
been hearing about Greg Gutfeld's plan to do that. Some of the names are great. I thought of "Jew Meccan Me Crazy" last night, but that sounds more like the name of a drink.
 
#37
#37
I'm still looking for some rentable property nearby to open my see through burkha emporium.
 
#39
#39
There was a discussion of this on ABC's roundtable on Sunday morning and concensus was that at this point it cannot be built elsewhere because, while superificially one could argue that it is a nod towards "accomodating" the concerns of those offended, the problem is that it has been turned into a political football by the right hatemongers and so, to build elsewhere would send the message that such groups have veto power over the First Amendment.

And so now, ironically thanks to Newt, Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, and so many others, building it elsewhere undermines the very religious tolerance that those people pay lip service to.

Also, the Imam's wife was on the show earlier and explained that his comment right after 9/11 about the U.S. policies having some blame for 9/11 has been taken out of cotnext by the right wing hatemongers and that, if you watch his entire interview, he is in context discussing the CIA having armed and supported Bin Laden.

Now, we know that the right wing hate mongers have a history with that, especialy recently. She also had on with her a woman who was cofounder/organizer of a Jewish Community Center nearby and she welcomes the Muslim faith center there where they want to build it. Says long before the controversy that they had been working together to share ideas and concerns for how best to have such centers -- Jewish and Muslim -- near each other and to work with one another.

That was a good thing to hear for the future of the world. Of course, such understanding and working together falls on deaf ears for the ignorant, like Newt, Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, etc.
 
#40
#40
lawgator1 said:
There was a discussion of this on ABC's roundtable on Sunday morning and concensus was that at this point it cannot be built elsewhere because, while superificially one could argue that it is a nod towards "accomodating" the concerns of those offended, the problem is that it has been turned into a political football by the right hatemongers and so, to build elsewhere would send the message that such groups have veto power over the First Amendment.

And so now, ironically thanks to Newt, Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, and so many others, building it elsewhere undermines the very religious tolerance that those people pay lip service to.

Also, the Imam's wife was on the show earlier and explained that his comment right after 9/11 about the U.S. policies having some blame for 9/11 has been taken out of cotnext by the right wing hatemongers and that, if you watch his entire interview, he is in context discussing the CIA having armed and supported Bin Laden.

Now, we know that the right wing hate mongers have a history with that, especialy recently. She also had on with her a woman who was cofounder/organizer of a Jewish Community Center nearby and she welcomes the Muslim faith center there where they want to build it. Says long before the controversy that they had been working together to share ideas and concerns for how best to have such centers -- Jewish and Muslim -- near each other and to work with one another.

That was a good thing to hear for the future of the world. Of course, such understanding and working together falls on deaf ears for the ignorant, like Newt, Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, etc.
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Well the Iman's wife said that they are looking into relocating it. This came from Fox News which I know you don't look at!
 
#41
#41
lawgator1 said:
There was a discussion of this on ABC's roundtable on Sunday morning and concensus was that at this point it cannot be built elsewhere because, while superificially one could argue that it is a nod towards "accomodating" the concerns of those offended, the problem is that it has been turned into a political football by the right hatemongers and so, to build elsewhere would send the message that such groups have veto power over the First Amendment.

And so now, ironically thanks to Newt, Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, and so many others, building it elsewhere undermines the very religious tolerance that those people pay lip service to.

Also, the Imam's wife was on the show earlier and explained that his comment right after 9/11 about the U.S. policies having some blame for 9/11 has been taken out of cotnext by the right wing hatemongers and that, if you watch his entire interview, he is in context discussing the CIA having armed and supported Bin Laden.

Now, we know that the right wing hate mongers have a history with that, especialy recently. She also had on with her a woman who was cofounder/organizer of a Jewish Community Center nearby and she welcomes the Muslim faith center there where they want to build it. Says long before the controversy that they had been working together to share ideas and concerns for how best to have such centers -- Jewish and Muslim -- near each other and to work with one another.

That was a good thing to hear for the future of the world. Of course, such understanding and working together falls on deaf ears for the ignorant, like Newt, Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, etc.
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Imagine that.
 
#42
#42
If they do decide to relocate it, I hope people are thankful and grateful to their gesture. Because they didn't have to.


I do realize some will just puff out their chests and feel like they "proved" something, though.
 
#43
#43
lawgator1 said:
There was a discussion of this on ABC's roundtable on Sunday morning and concensus was that at this point it cannot be built elsewhere because, while superificially one could argue that it is a nod towards "accomodating" the concerns of those offended, the problem is that it has been turned into a political football by the right hatemongers and so, to build elsewhere would send the message that such groups have veto power over the First Amendment.

And so now, ironically thanks to Newt, Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, and so many others, building it elsewhere undermines the very religious tolerance that those people pay lip service to.

Also, the Imam's wife was on the show earlier and explained that his comment right after 9/11 about the U.S. policies having some blame for 9/11 has been taken out of cotnext by the right wing hatemongers and that, if you watch his entire interview, he is in context discussing the CIA having armed and supported Bin Laden.

Now, we know that the right wing hate mongers have a history with that, especialy recently. She also had on with her a woman who was cofounder/organizer of a Jewish Community Center nearby and she welcomes the Muslim faith center there where they want to build it. Says long before the controversy that they had been working together to share ideas and concerns for how best to have such centers -- Jewish and Muslim -- near each other and to work with one another.

That was a good thing to hear for the future of the world. Of course, such understanding and working together falls on deaf ears for the ignorant, like Newt, Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, etc.
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you left Harry Reid off your hatemonger list. Now, I'm assuming that your absurdity about it being only right wing was in jest, otherwise you'd look utterly silly.
 
#44
#44
Veto power over the first amendment? Wow. Do you realize the history of speaking in politically correct terms? You know all of that 'talk' we can not say because of the sensitivities of the bedwetting left? How many times have I heard some whining liberal complain how 'offensive' something is and the speaker have to back down and apologize for something not even needing an apology for. You do realize just how stupid that statement sounds coming from someone on the left correct?

Wow. Pull out the token Jew to add credibility. Whooptie do. So what? Some Jewish lady comes on there saying "I don't mind" and that's supposed to make it all better?
 
#45
#45
IPorange said:
If they do decide to relocate it, I hope people are thankful and grateful to their gesture. Because they didn't have to.


I do realize some will just puff out their chests and feel like they "proved" something, though.
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Has it gotten to a point where the general public has forced them into this gesture?
 
#46
#46
It isn't about "rights" this is simply about the intended focus of the center and how insensitive the center would be towards those affected by 9-11 and ultimately run counter to the very message those building the center wanted to convey. If it is decided that the center should be built elsewhere, where there is no stigma attached to it, then I would 100% support them. It would be a gesture in good will and go much further to heal the relationship between the American public and the Islamic faith, which was the stated goal of the center to begin with.

Who were the talking heads and or journalists involved in the discussion you mentioned? The only reason I ask is so many (on both sides of the political spectrum) are just parrots of the party line they identify with, in this case the way you portrayed it sounds very close to some of the rhetoric from the left I've heard on this issue.
 
#47
#47
lawgator1 said:
to build elsewhere would send the message that such groups have veto power over the First Amendment.
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How so? The 1st amendment doesn't prevent them from being criticized. If anything, both groups are exercising their 1st amendment rights

lawgator1 said:
And so now, ironically thanks to Newt, Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, and so many others, building it elsewhere undermines the very religious tolerance that those people pay lip service to.

Of course, such understanding and working together falls on deaf ears for the ignorant, like Newt, Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, etc.
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why are you not including Harry Reid in your list of ignorant, right hatemongers?
 
#48
#48
utvolpj said:
How so? The 1st amendment doesn't prevent them from being criticized. If anything, both groups are exercising their 1st amendment rights





why are you not including Harry Reid in your list of ignorant, right hatemongers?
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They aren't just being criticized. I mean, talk about your understatements!


That was pathetic by Reid. He is so worried about reelection that he allowed his intellectual honesty to be compromised. Truth is, so did Obama, when he backed off of his original comments.

What this country needs right now is someone in the administration or the Congress to step forward and say the truth, which is that the notion that this center is some sort of rubbing of salt into the wound is nonsense, its the opposite; that the people promoting such nonsense are petty charlatans, playing on oversimplistic fears and prejudice; that living in a land of libery means you have to find a way to seaprate out your suspicions from fact; that sad little men like Beck and Limbaugh are using you; that the only thing worse than them is their retarded audiences lining up to protest, well, nothing.

Being an American means first and foremost not being a dumbass.
 
#49
#49
lawgator1 said:
They aren't just being criticized. I mean, talk about your understatements!
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so people against the building don't have the same 1st amendment rights as the ones doing the building? Please explain how this has anything to do with your original claim of them having "veto power over the First Amendment." They don't have to give in to public opinion unless they choose to

lawgator1 said:
Being an American means first and foremost not being a dumbass.
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false, there is no such qualification
 
#50
#50
lawgator1 said:
They aren't just being criticized. I mean, talk about your understatements!


That was pathetic by Reid. He is so worried about reelection that he allowed his intellectual honesty to be compromised. Truth is, so did Obama, when he backed off of his original comments.

What this country needs right now is someone in the administration or the Congress to step forward and say the truth, which is that the notion that this center is some sort of rubbing of salt into the wound is nonsense, its the opposite; that the people promoting such nonsense are petty charlatans, playing on oversimplistic fears and prejudice; that living in a land of libery means you have to find a way to seaprate out your suspicions from fact; that sad little men like Beck and Limbaugh are using you; that the only thing worse than them is their retarded audiences lining up to protest, well, nothing.

Being an American means first and foremost not being a dumbass.
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Off base to the very core. Last sentence is positively senseless.
 
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