You're the Imam

#76
#76
BeecherVol said:
As I stated to LG a few pages back. I do not have the right to tell those affected how to feel, no more than you do. Which is what he (LG) has stated needs to happen. And from a politician non the less.
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All I'm saying is lets not pretend that the location is the hold up. Most people are hiding behind the location as their excuse to oppose the mosque because they're too scared to voice and opinion and stand for anything. Just come out and say I don't want a mosque of any kind built anywhere. At least gs is out in the open in his opposition. I can at least respect him for owning the issue instead of using the location as a weak cover screen.
 
#77
#77
lumberjack4 said:
All I'm saying is lets not pretend that the location is the hold up. Most people are hiding behind the location as their excuse to oppose the mosque because they're too scared to voice and opinion and stand for anything. Just come out and say I don't want a mosque of any kind built anywhere. At least gs is out in the open in his opposition. I can at least respect him for owning the issue instead of using the location as a weak cover screen.
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You can retype it 14 different times in 14 different languages. You are still wrong. Ifit is not THIS location, why are there not protests outside the other 17 Mosques in NYC?
Please post your own views and kindly refrain from telling the rest of us what we think, thanks.
 
#78
#78
lumberjack4 said:
All I'm saying is lets not pretend that the location is the hold up. Most people are hiding behind the location as their excuse to oppose the mosque because they're too scared to voice and opinion and stand for anything. Just come out and say I don't want a mosque of any kind built anywhere. At least gs is out in the open in his opposition. I can at least respect him for owning the issue instead of using the location as a weak cover screen.
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Who's pretending?
Im not Muslim, never will be. I pretty much disagree with everything they believe. But they also have a right to their beliefs no different than I, even if I do disagree.

But when it comes to rights, according to the law, they have a right to occupy the building. And if someone disagrees with the decision for them to do that, they have just as much right to express their opinion to whatever level they decide.
 
#79
#79
T-TownVol said:
You can retype it 14 different times in 14 different languages. You are still wrong. Ifit is not THIS location, why are there not protests outside the other 17 Mosques in NYC?
Please post your own views and kindly refrain from telling the rest of us what we think, thanks.
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Probably because they aren't in the process if building the other 17 mosques. If they were we'd have the same protests going on just like we do in other parts of this country that aren't around Ground Zero.
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#80
#80
BeecherVol said:
Who's pretending?
Im not Muslim, never will be. I pretty much disagree with everything they believe. But they also have a right to their beliefs no different than I, even if I do disagree.

But when it comes to rights, according to the law, they have a right to occupy the building. And if someone disagrees with the decision for them to do that, they have just as much right to express their opinion to whatever level they decide.
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Sure you have a right to disagree. I'm not arguing that point. I'd just prefer the movement as a whole state their true opposition instead of using a smoke screen.
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#81
#81
lumberjack4 said:
Sure you have a right to disagree. I'm not arguing that point. I'd just prefer the movement as a whole state their true opposition instead of using a smoke screen.
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So you don't mind that people disagree. But you suggest they disagree to a different level?
 
#83
#83
lumberjack4 said:
Probably because they aren't in the process if building the other 17 mosques. If they were we'd have the same protests going on just like we do in other parts of this country that aren't around Ground Zero.
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I do not know how to say this in a way that is easy for you to hear, so I will just say it.........You sound like LG.
 
#84
#84
lumberjack4 said:
I just want people to state the real reason they disagree.
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How are you sure they are not?

I guess if they have a legit reason outside of "we just hate muslims" its makes it more difficult to call them intolerant bigots.

IDK, Im just not sure why the resistance should claim a reason, if that is not how they feel.
 
#86
#86
lawgator1 said:
They aren't just being criticized. I mean, talk about your understatements!


That was pathetic by Reid. He is so worried about reelection that he allowed his intellectual honesty to be compromised. Truth is, so did Obama, when he backed off of his original comments.

What this country needs right now is someone in the administration or the Congress to step forward and say the truth, which is that the notion that this center is some sort of rubbing of salt into the wound is nonsense, its the opposite; that the people promoting such nonsense are petty charlatans, playing on oversimplistic fears and prejudice; that living in a land of libery means you have to find a way to seaprate out your suspicions from fact; that sad little men like Beck and Limbaugh are using you; that the only thing worse than them is their retarded audiences lining up to protest, well, nothing.

Being an American means first and foremost not being a dumbass.
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.
 
#88
#88
lumberjack4 said:
It really doesn't matter where this or any mosque gets built. Whenever a building site is announced everyone will find a reason to b**** and moan i.e. Murfreesboro TN, Temecula CA, Orland Park Illinois, ect.
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I didn't realize everyone was in opposition. Seems to me at many of those protests I saw many pro supporters. I have no problem with a mosque being built in Murfreesboro, Temecula or even New York City. It's just the location they picked and the proposed opening date that raised eyebrows and stirred overwhelming opposition. Why do something so insensitive when your stated mission is to build bridges between America and the Islamic faith? It is a horrible way to start and for the life of me I cannot understand why Muslims and supporters of the mosque don't understand this.
 
#89
#89
lumberjack4 said:
All I'm saying is lets not pretend that the location is the hold up. Most people are hiding behind the location as their excuse to oppose the mosque because they're too scared to voice and opinion and stand for anything. Just come out and say I don't want a mosque of any kind built anywhere. At least gs is out in the open in his opposition. I can at least respect him for owning the issue instead of using the location as a weak cover screen.
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Right about here is where you start to sound like LG, people cannot possibly have differing opinions in their opposition, they must all be lumped into the outright or closeted bigot faction.

I have no problem with a mosque being built, it is simply the place and the timing that stirs the opposition for the vast majority of those opposed.
 
#91
#91
So if people protested a bar or strip club by a school they would be "intollerant religious prudes"? I happen to agree with the stated reason on the mosque not being built there. But for the sake of the argument let's say a fraction of those people disagreeing were doing so on grounds of being racists. So what? Does being racist somehow negate a freedom of speech? They are using their freedom of speech to protest the location of a mosque just like anyone else would protest a location of something else they may disagree with.

If we want to get down to the point of pinning down 'blame', 'fault', 'hypocrisy', or any other label I will say the group pushing this has defeated their purpose. They have come in here to push for some sort of healing. If America is "racist" or biased toward Islam as the claim is made, why bother doing this knowing that a mosque placed right by Ground Zero would cause problems? Why dare inject a mosque in a place that based on the death of about 3000 Americans is held sacred? And AFTER the crisis develops, why continuously push for it after the notion of 'healing' is out the door?

Who is the better man here? The one who in the name of healing is rubbing this deeper in people's faces OR the one who has simply asked to have this moved? Right now if it were over a situation of being where I'm not wanted I'd probably think about leaving. But clearly the words coming out of this guy's mouth is very aggressive with no giving ground or even dialogue at all. Hard to preach dialogue when you don't even set the example.
 
#92
#92
lumberjack4 said:
All I'm saying is lets not pretend that the location is the hold up. Most people are hiding behind the location as their excuse to oppose the mosque because they're too scared to voice and opinion and stand for anything. Just come out and say I don't want a mosque of any kind built anywhere. At least gs is out in the open in his opposition. I can at least respect him for owning the issue instead of using the location as a weak cover screen.
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ridiculous. i could care less if it is built anywhere else. i just don't want a monument up at ground zero that will make a symbol to all terrorists that what they did was absolutely right and the will of allah.
 
#93
#93
lumberjack4 said:
All I'm saying is lets not pretend that the location is the hold up. Most people are hiding behind the location as their excuse to oppose the mosque because they're too scared to voice and opinion and stand for anything. Just come out and say I don't want a mosque of any kind built anywhere. At least gs is out in the open in his opposition. I can at least respect him for owning the issue instead of using the location as a weak cover screen.
Click to expand...

I don't want a mosque of any kind built anywhere because I believe it to be a false religion. However, I support the right of those who so clearly believe differently from me to practice their religion in peace and compliance with the law.

I agree that if healing were the goal, this project would have been dropped. They still have the right to build there.

I believe the Imam has ties to radicals. They still have the right to build there if anyone will build for them.

The only real "legal" question in my mind is whether this mosque will be used for Islamic political efforts and causes. Remember that fundamental Islam demands theocracy.

How sensitive are liberals to Christians influencing public policy based on their Christian worldview? They go nuts, right? They falsely accuse the "Christian Right" of trampling the establishment clause... Yet they consistently side with Islam when it has as a fundamental doctrine the establishment of a state religion governed by religious law.
 
#94
#94
why not build a museum of tolerance and NOT the mosque if it's about tolerance? i wouldn't object to that.
 
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#95
#95
lawgator1 said:
There was a discussion of this on ABC's roundtable on Sunday morning and concensus was that at this point it cannot be built elsewhere because, while superificially one could argue that it is a nod towards "accomodating" the concerns of those offended, the problem is that it has been turned into a political football by the right hatemongers and so, to build elsewhere would send the message that such groups have veto power over the First Amendment.

And so now, ironically thanks to Newt, Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, and so many others, building it elsewhere undermines the very religious tolerance that those people pay lip service to.

Also, the Imam's wife was on the show earlier and explained that his comment right after 9/11 about the U.S. policies having some blame for 9/11 has been taken out of cotnext by the right wing hatemongers and that, if you watch his entire interview, he is in context discussing the CIA having armed and supported Bin Laden.

Now, we know that the right wing hate mongers have a history with that, especialy recently. She also had on with her a woman who was cofounder/organizer of a Jewish Community Center nearby and she welcomes the Muslim faith center there where they want to build it. Says long before the controversy that they had been working together to share ideas and concerns for how best to have such centers -- Jewish and Muslim -- near each other and to work with one another.

That was a good thing to hear for the future of the world. Of course, such understanding and working together falls on deaf ears for the ignorant, like Newt, Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, etc.
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This is complete and utter garbage. It's also a flat out lie and shows that you pay no attention to those people and just make ludicris statements to make yourself feel better.

I listen to Beck everyday on the way home on XM and he literally repeats everyday that he has ZERO problem with the mosque and where it's built but his question surrounds where and by who the mosque is funded. There are some serious questions as to the funding and what kind of groups and orginazations are involved and that's all he has said.

You obviously pay no attention and just run your liberal mouth and spew garbage.

If I was just a guest on this forum I would question if some of your posts are really serious or not because of the ridiculous garbage you post. It's quite sad what you've become because you weren't always like this.
 
#96
#96
LG thinks Fox is extreme right and MSNBC is the mainstream paragon of truth apparently.
 
#98
#98
droski said:
ridiculous. i could care less if it is built anywhere else. i just don't want a monument up at ground zero that will make a symbol to all terrorists that what they did was absolutely right and the will of allah.
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Garbage.
 
#99
#99
sjt18 said:
LG thinks Fox is extreme right and MSNBC is the mainstream paragon of truth apparently.
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Not fair. I obviously think relatively speaking that Fox is decidedly right. But that is not my criticism as I have frequently also said that there are a number of conservatives whose thought process I admire, such as George Will.

My complaint is not that they are right wing, it is that they are stupdily so. See e.g. Glenn Beck.
 
#100
#100
T-TownVol said:
I do not know how to say this in a way that is easy for you to hear, so I will just say it.........You sound like LG.
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It's a fair statement though, hell there have been plenty of protests in Murfreesboro over the building of a mosque.
 
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