Zaay Green

#251
#251
creekdipper said:
Coach, your reminiscing brought back memories of watching LV games with my dad. I wouldn't call him a misogynist, but he was pretty old-school when it came to women's places in society (was always a sore spot that my college-educated teacher mom made more than he did as a h.s. dropout plant worker).

Nonetheless, he always relished watching "Pat" go after referees and regarded her as highly as any men's coach (and was proud to have her represent our state). It changed his whole attitude toward women's athletics and, I believe, women in general. Even my mom, who couldn't care less about sports, would watch Lady Vols games...and that's saying a lot.

When my dad was dying of lung cancer, I wrote a note to the athletic department expressing his admiration for the program and their influence. They responded by sending a large of media guides and programs. Sadly, my dad passed away a week before the package arrived, but my mom treasured the gesture. It really helped dyring that time.
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My dad is 89...breaks my heart to see this once 6'2" power of a man, relegated to a chair with an electric blanket on his legs 24-7. I drop by to see him at least 2x a week bc I know I won't have him forever.

He saddens at every instance that reminds him he "isn't the man he was".
I try to soften the blow by telling him, "I'll never be the man you are"
 
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#254
#254
Coach Jumper said:
as posted by @madtownvol :



This site had a huge impact in that girl's decision.
It is read by players, coaches, media, potential recruits, and we posters.

The internet is worldwide but people use it like it is a backyard fence
Posters are tearing down the very program they say they back by not thinking about the big picture audience.

This is why I "white Knight",,,because I know the players, families, recruits need to see that there are actually posters on here who want them here.

I know that some of you here think my only purpose for being here is to try to use it for a platform to get into the program. And yes, that is a goal of mine and I will not deny it.

But my heart is orange and has been since 1976 when my Dad and I would watch CPS and her teams with as much fervor as we did when the Lakers played the Celtics.

I care about and fight for this team on more platforms than just here.
But I consider this one the most important because last year I was entrusted with doing the game threads and knew of the lofty expectations following Vn legend, governmentmule. I considered it an honor to carry his yoke for a year.

I know what will happen when I write this, 2-3 of my more ardent supporters will give me a like and a hell yeah. . . Followed by 10-15 calling me out and calling me names. But I take this abuse willingly if it will positively influence someone to think about what they say on this site before they say it.
Click to expand...

What do you think the purpose of this message board is?
 
#256
#256
volman128 said:
What MTV doesn't get is that the coach that he defended for years, Holly Warlick, is the main reason for the things that he listed. Even with the years of mediocrity under Holly, with the fan support and tradition, there's only a handful of coaches who wouldn't have come here if UT had been willing to actually pay for a coach that could get us back on top.

The bottom line is the UTAD doesn't really care if the women's basketball program is elite ever again. When you go after a coach with a marginal amount of money in your pocket, you'll get a marginal coach and you'll get marginal results.
Click to expand...

Let's just review Holly's record as LV head coach:

2012-13 = 27-8, SEC regular season title, elite 8 (Warlick named Spalding Maggie Dixon National Rookie Coach of the Year and SEC Coach of the Year).
[So, you were all in firing the SEC coach of the year?]

2013-14 = 29-6, SEC regular season title, Sweet 16
2014-15 = 30-6, tied for SEC regular season title, elite 8

2015-16 = 22-14, 7th in SEC, Elite 8


So, for Holly's first 3 years there was absolutely no objective reason to not support her. Two elite 8s, a sweet 16, three SEC reg. season titles and averaging over 28 wins a season.

Even in her 4th year, the LVs had lost three key seniors to graduation, had a young team but still made it to the Elite 8. Given that finish under those circumstances and the prior history, calling for the job of a coach who made it to the elite 8, with 22 wins would not have been reasonable.

After the 2017-18 season, when LVs did not make the Sweet 16 for the second year in a row (despite a 25 win reg season with quality wins), I was very clear that the team was starting to trend in the wrong direction.

My point, at that time, was that Holly's stellar recruiting classes and prior history were going to buy her some time (2017-18 were Evina and Rennia's freshman seasons). I was not defending per se her but noting that if you fire a coach who still had on-paper solid seasons and had just brought in a top 5 recruiting class, that would be a very bad look. No other coach would ever want to step into a situation where someone could get fired under those circumstances.

During Holly's final two seasons, I was in the "change is needed" camp.

So, I stand by position on Holly as reasoned one that reflected the realities of the team.

As for living in the past" posters, when a top recruit or coach says their dream had been to play/coach where the Women's basketball hall of fame is located and so they are coming to U of Tenn., well get back to me.

LA Tech used to be an epicenter of women's basketball (Leon Barrymore), as was Texas (with the legenday Jody Conradt), and back a bit further (USC, where Cheryl Miller once dominated like no other).

Once legendary coaches leave, school legacies often fade. The history still carries some weight but it is overmatched by the lure of better salaries and stronger programs.

The challenge for kellie is to rebuild the legacy. That takes time. Realistically, she will probably have 3 to 4 more years to do so, unless the team falls further down the pecking order.
 
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#257
#257
Coach Jumper said:
I can only speak for my purpose
which is the support and advancement of the university of TN Volunteer sports, specifically for me the Lady Vols
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It’s not to discuss basketball strategies, players skills, starting lineups, opposing teams?

Certainly you have an opinion on the purpose of sports message boards.

I’d love to hear what you think will be the starting five and player rotations etc. for next year without any transfers coming in.

Maybe you can start a thread of just basketball talk? That would be refreshing.
 
#258
#258
Bballnut1952 said:
It’s not to discuss basketball strategies, players skills, starting lineups, opposing teams?

Of course it is...what I feel it isn't is a forum to degrade or personally attack players and coaches, I have little patience for "little chihuahuas barking behind closed fences at bigger dogs"... What I say, I say in full view of the public. I am very easy to find and at nearly every home game and have yet to refuse to meet anyone. I have met 3 of the newspaper reporters, have conversed with some of the administration, and went up to and re-introduced myself to Coach K before a game. I hide behind no fence.

Certainly you have an opinion on the purpose of sports message boards.

I’d love to hear what you think will be the starting five and player rotations etc. for next year without any transfers coming in.

If in a position to dictate such a thing, it would start with assignments for my players this summer. Assignments of: ball-handling, shooting, driving, posting-up, defense, communication drills, pass-receiving drills... I would cut segments of game film for each player and have them work on particular facets that I showed them (individually) that they needed to work on... and only after I saw their progress at the beginning of next year would I begin to consider a lineup.

But for sake of your question right now:
PG-Jordan
SF-Rennia
Baseline forward- Rae
Power Forward-Jaiden
Center-Tamari
First sub-KK

I would run a high-post Point Forward offense and a half-court 3-1-1 trapping defense that became a man or match-up-zone after the ball crossed mid-court and full-court press for teams with weaker bringdowns.

Maybe you can start a thread of just basketball talk? That would be refreshing.

This is futile...threads start out with a subject or purpose then become "fences" for those aforementioned chihuahuas. The OP subject and content would last about 2-3 posts before it became another PE-battleground.
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And during the offseason, I am looking at this kid:


Head is up and looking downcourt
working hard when no one's around to ooh and aww
That's what impresses me
Yep

and in a few years, this one
 
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#259
#259
Coach Jumper said:
And during the offseason, I am looking at this kid:


Head is up and looking downcourt
working hard when no one's around to ooh and aww
That's what impresses me
Yep

and in a few years, this one
Click to expand...

What is a baseline forward?

One guard in the rotation. Rennie looks like she can shoot. I’m sure she will be in the rotation.

I forgot about the two freshman guards. They will have to be thrown in the fire early.

Will Saunders get minutes?

One issue I see is that there are three centers on the team that don’t seem to be able to be on the court at the same time. Do you think Harper will play some twin tower sets?
 
#261
#261
Bballnut1952 said:
What is a baseline forward?

One guard in the rotation. Rennie looks like she can shoot. I’m sure she will be in the rotation.

I forgot about the two freshman guards. They will have to be thrown in the fire early.

Will Saunders get minutes?

One issue I see is that there are three centers on the team that don’t seem to be able to be on the court at the same time. Do you think Harper will play some twin tower sets?
Click to expand...

Doubt it. She'll more likely have one of them in with McCoy or KK. Then Rae and Davis as wings. Horton, Rennie and the 2 freshmen at guard. The biggest issue is going to be finding someone out of the latter group who can play a steady game at PG. Anybody know if Rennie ever played PG? She's a very controlled player and good passer. Or the to-be-named-later grad transfer.
 
#262
#262
FrozenLVFan said:
Doubt it. She'll more likely have one of them in with McCoy or KK. Then Rae and Davis as wings. Horton, Rennie and the 2 freshmen at guard. The biggest issue is going to be finding someone out of the latter group who can play a steady game at PG. Anybody know if Rennie ever played PG? She's a very controlled player and good passer. Or the to-be-named-later grad transfer.
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KK is one of them so if she is in the game with Key or Saunders, it’s twin towers.
 
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#263
#263
Bballnut1952 said:
What is a baseline forward?

One guard in the rotation. Rennie looks like she can shoot. I’m sure she will be in the rotation.

I forgot about the two freshman guards. They will have to be thrown in the fire early.

Will Saunders get minutes?

One issue I see is that there are three centers on the team that don’t seem to be able to be on the court at the same time. Do you think Harper will play some twin tower sets?
Click to expand...
Coach Jumper said:
And during the offseason, I am looking at this kid:


Head is up and looking downcourt
working hard when no one's around to ooh and aww
That's what impresses me
Yep

and in a few years, this one
Click to expand...

Yeah posting your hard work on social media means no ones watching. Ok 👌 Not saying it’s a bad thing just a little ironic
 
#264
#264
Bballnut1952 said:
What is a baseline forward?

One guard in the rotation. Rennie looks like she can shoot. I’m sure she will be in the rotation.

I forgot about the two freshman guards. They will have to be thrown in the fire early.

Will Saunders get minutes?

One issue I see is that there are three centers on the team that don’t seem to be able to be on the court at the same time. Do you think Harper will play some twin tower sets?
Click to expand...
I hope Saunder red shirts. You can tell Kellie wanted to this year but lack of players
 
#265
#265
Bballnut1952 said:
What is a baseline forward?

One guard in the rotation. Rennie looks like she can shoot. I’m sure she will be in the rotation.

I forgot about the two freshman guards. They will have to be thrown in the fire early.

Will Saunders get minutes?

One issue I see is that there are three centers on the team that don’t seem to be able to be on the court at the same time. Do you think Harper will play some twin tower sets?
Click to expand...

++++++++++++++++

I didn't consider the players I have yet to see so I lined up the one's we have definitely have and that I have seen extensively.

Lou and Rennie frustrated me last year. They were supposedly both brought in to shoot and both continually passed up shots. Maybe it was a coached decision,maybe not, but until I see 4 or more 3 pt attempts a game,,,they're not shooters
Rennia 8 min between each 3-pt shot...3.8 3pt shots per game
Jordan 9 min between each 3-pt shot ...3.0 3pt shots per game
Lou 10 min between each 3-pt shot...2.2 3pt shots per game
Jessie 7 min between each 3-pt shot...1.8 3pt shots per game(but only 1/3-1/2 as many minutes as the others)

I don't consider Rae or Jaiden Centers, they are forwards...Rae is more of a small forward and Jaiden is all power forward

Baseline forward....Is a forward that sets up on the weakside baseline, can shoot the three, or drive from that angle and scores on back-door opportunities. Rae is perfect for this.

When I run an offense I run a high-post set on my set plays...On the bring down I have the Center and the point forward get to their set positions,,, I use the Baseline Forward, the small forward and the point guard to bring the ball down,,,Once the ball breaks the half-court plain,, the BL forward goes weakside of the point-forward,,, the SF sets up at the arc-weakside of the point-forward,,, and the PG is at the top...PG passes into the point-forward and she can do any of many things she can pivot and go hard to the basket she can back pivot and shoot over her Defender she can back pivot and feed the Low post,, she can back pivot and feed the bass line cutter,, she can kick out to the Sf for a shot or to let them one-on-one create a scoring opportunity, she can hit the pg on a cut....many more options.

It's hard to explain, but it in no way mirrors the 4 out 1 in set that we run now.

Saunders has to prove she wants minutes. I DO see much potential in her but until I see her for extended minutes, I cannot evaluate her. At this writing all I saw of her last season were opportunistic scoring. People left her and she got easy buckets bc they left her. She posted up way too late and didn't work hard enough when she was in to impress me (I have to be honest,,,I am talking as a coach right now).
 
#266
#266
VolFuture2k22 said:
Yeah posting your hard work on social media means no ones watching. Ok 👌 Not saying it’s a bad thing just a little ironic
Click to expand...

I was more looking at the work ethic...your work ethic isn't developed with an audience, it is when you don't have one....
Yes, she is being filmed,but no one is watching her on the sidelines and she didn't get that good without working on those handles tirelessly
 
#270
#270
Coach Jumper said:
++++++++++++++++

I didn't consider the players I have yet to see so I lined up the one's we have definitely have and that I have seen extensively.

Lou and Rennie frustrated me last year. They were supposedly both brought in to shoot and both continually passed up shots. Maybe it was a coached decision,maybe not, but until I see 4 or more 3 pt attempts a game,,,they're not shooters
Rennia 8 min between each 3-pt shot...3.8 3pt shots per game
Jordan 9 min between each 3-pt shot ...3.0 3pt shots per game
Lou 10 min between each 3-pt shot...2.2 3pt shots per game
Jessie 7 min between each 3-pt shot...1.8 3pt shots per game(but only 1/3-1/2 as many minutes as the others)

I don't consider Rae or Jaiden Centers, they are forwards...Rae is more of a small forward and Jaiden is all power forward

Baseline forward....Is a forward that sets up on the weakside baseline, can shoot the three, or drive from that angle and scores on back-door opportunities. Rae is perfect for this.

When I run an offense I run a high-post set on my set plays...On the bring down I have the Center and the point forward get to their set positions,,, I use the Baseline Forward, the small forward and the point guard to bring the ball down,,,Once the ball breaks the half-court plain,, the BL forward goes weakside of the point-forward,,, the SF sets up at the arc-weakside of the point-forward,,, and the PG is at the top...PG passes into the point-forward and she can do any of many things she can pivot and go hard to the basket she can back pivot and shoot over her Defender she can back pivot and feed the Low post,, she can back pivot and feed the bass line cutter,, she can kick out to the Sf for a shot or to let them one-on-one create a scoring opportunity, she can hit the pg on a cut....many more options.

It's hard to explain, but it in no way mirrors the 4 out 1 in set that we run now.

Saunders has to prove she wants minutes. I DO see much potential in her but until I see her for extended minutes, I cannot evaluate her. At this writing all I saw of her last season were opportunistic scoring. People left her and she got easy buckets bc they left her. She posted up way too late and didn't work hard enough when she was in to impress me (I have to be honest,,,I am talking as a coach right now).
Click to expand...
I am more interested in what you think THEY will do, not what you might do if you were coaching.
 
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#271
#271
Bballnut1952 said:
I am more interested in what you think THEY will do, not what you might do if you were coaching.
Click to expand...

It will take alot more homework for me to evaluate them unseen.
I don't follow recruiting...as Dirty Harry says..."A man has to know his limitations"

I can train em or run em,
but as far as following the recruiting trail,,,not my bag, unless my opinion counts.
and here, it doesn't

Once the team is set and there is an opportunity to see them, I will give you "their" assessment,,but right now, I only have mine
 
#272
#272
volman128 said:
What MTV doesn't get is that the coach that he defended for years, Holly Warlick, is the main reason for the things that he listed. Even with the years of mediocrity under Holly, with the fan support and tradition, there's only a handful of coaches who wouldn't have come here if UT had been willing to actually pay for a coach that could get us back on top.

The bottom line is the UTAD doesn't really care if the women's basketball program is elite ever again. When you go after a coach with a marginal amount of money in your pocket, you'll get a marginal coach and you'll get marginal results.
Click to expand...
I disagree, Phil Fulmer is a huge supporter of The Lady Vols. He and Pat were together for the glory days of both programs. He knows what it is like to have a great LV program. Also, when whining about what sort of salary UT would pay remember we are still paying off Butch and I believe one or two ADs.
 
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#273
#273
Coach Jumper said:
It will take alot more homework for me to evaluate them unseen.
I don't follow recruiting...as Dirty Harry says..."A man has to know his limitations"

I can train em or run em,
but as far as following the recruiting trail,,,not my bag, unless my opinion counts.
and here, it doesn't

Once the team is set and there is an opportunity to see them, I will give you "their" assessment,,but right now, I only have mine
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about recruiting. I asked about next years team and their rotation. Who would start and who would come off the bench for who. You kinda told me that. Then you went on to tell me what kind of offense you would run. It certainly was interesting (although I can't find a reference anywhere on the internet for a baseline forward position) and you do know how to talk the talk for the most part. But what I wanted to know is how you think Coach Harper will do with these players.

I only mentioned the freshmen because they will have to be part of the rotation as the team is constituted now.

It's a tough situation when you only have two returning guards and the only backups are freshmen.

How do you see it?
 
#275
#275
I would love recruit as a professional assignment and know I would be very good at it...but for guessing and projecting on this board, not interested,,,too many avenues. One day this kid, the next day that kid....Tell you what though.

re the question below...I have yet to look at any film for the new recruits...let me take the night and the morning and I will give you my assessment as to how I see them fitting in, in my projection tomorrow around noon...ok?

if anyone has bookmarked anything re our 2020 newcomers, please feel free to post it so I can have all of the info I can get.
thank you

also, I will take this question below and start a fresh thread with it so we don't continue to take Zaay's thread

cool?

Bballnut1952 said:
I wasn't talking about recruiting. I asked about next years team and their rotation. Who would start and who would come off the bench for who. You kinda told me that. Then you went on to tell me what kind of offense you would run. It certainly was interesting (although I can't find a reference anywhere on the internet for a baseline forward position) and you do know how to talk the talk for the most part. But what I wanted to know is how you think Coach Harper will do with these players.

I only mentioned the freshmen because they will have to be part of the rotation as the team is constituted now.

It's a tough situation when you only have two returning guards and the only backups are freshmen.

How do you see it?
Click to expand...
 
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