'10 TN OL James Stone

[BigPapaVol]

Ambles and Green, OK. But those other guys from the info I have seen are no better than the guys UT has gotten. I was thoroughly unimpressed by Dixon's performance in the AA game. Cullen is a JUCO that we talked up but I think it is a stretch to call him one of the few difference makers in this class. Guys like Jones are necessities... but he isn't a unique talent.

I'm talking about Christian Jones. Cullen is an immediate starter type football player, even for loaded programs. Dixon played corner in his AA game because he was better suited to it that any of the other safeties. Know any other guys like that?

 

[sjt18]

Sorry but Dixon wasn't impressive regardless. He's a big part of the reason Ambles got a 5th star.

Cullen is not an immediate starter type for teams that don't have big holes to fill like UT does... at least not with top tier programs. I doubt he goes to USC but if he does I think there's little chance he starts next year... and probably not as a Sr. OU has some holes but they also have some quality young guys who've been in their program a year or two.

As best as I'm aware, UT was fading fast as a contender for C Jones even before Kiffin left. It seems to be an exaggeration to say he was a real possibility either then or now.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Sorry but Dixon wasn't impressive regardless. He's a big part of the reason Ambles got a 5th star.

Cullen is not an immediate starter type for teams that don't have big holes to fill like UT does... at least not with top tier programs. I doubt he goes to USC but if he does I think there's little chance he starts next year... and probably not as a Sr. OU has some holes but they also have some quality young guys who've been in their program a year or two.

As best as I'm aware, UT was fading fast as a contender for C Jones even before Kiffin left. It seems to be an exaggeration to say he was a real possibility either then or now.

Rationalization isn't going to change the situation. We were recruiting against UF, USC, TX, OU and AL for many players. We aren't any longer.

 

[s1216]

We're not recruiting the same guys. You can throw star ratings at me for the rest of your life and it won't change what's happening here. Each class has a handful of real difference makers and we were competing favorably for several of them even though we had no business competing for them based upon our past few years.

I'm talking about guys like Ambles, Dixon, Green, Jones, Cullen etc. That's not saying we can't be competitive. It's just saying that we are no longer in it for the guys that would put us over the top.

You are comparing Kiffin's wish list to the guys that Dooley is actually signing...

We won't know the full story on Dooley's ability to recruit for at least a year, perhaps two.

 

[BigPapaVol]

You are comparing Kiffin's wish list to the guys that Dooley is actually signing...

We won't know the full story on Dooley's ability to recruit for at least a year, perhaps two.

No I'm not. I'm comparing both coaches' wish lists. Pretending Dooley doesn't want those guys is ludicrous.

 

[sjt18]

Rationalization isn't going to change the situation. We were recruiting against UF, USC, TX, OU and AL for many players. We aren't any longer.

Rationalization also won't change the fact that CLK was consistently only "competing" and not winning against those guys. Who do you know he had won over vs those schools that UT has now lost?

They picked Ambles up but apparently UF, USC, and UGA had all lost interest or were slow playing him at the time. Taylor wasn't a commodity until the UA game. Willis already had serious reservations and had already de-committed from CLK.

It seems like you are making an assumption that things would have been better than they likely would have been then are using that to poo-pooh the commits DD is actually getting. More than likely UT would have signed more "fall backs" from the guys you're talking about than those guys.

DD appears to be doing at least as well as CLK did last year with much worse circumstances.

 

[VolsFanRJ]

Rationalization isn't going to change the situation. We were recruiting against UF, USC, TX, OU and AL for many players. We aren't any longer.

I see what you are saying and you make a good point, but you've got to look at the whole timing thing. Given the time frame and the situation Kiffin left us in, it is amazing Dooley has kept this much of this class together and is able to recruit anyone at all. This is a tough situation for him. He doesn't even have his staff put together and he is still able to get new commits. They might be of lesser caliber compared to what Kiffin was recruiting, but I don't think we will know for sure what he will actually be able to do or what type of recruits Dooley will be able to pull in, until a year from now.

 

[sjt18]

No I'm not. I'm comparing both coaches' wish lists. Pretending Dooley doesn't want those guys is ludicrous.

Pretending that Dooley SHOULD be able to develop the type of relationship it would take to actually land those guys in 2 1/2 weeks when Kiffin only had a "chance" after recruiting them for a year or more is worse than ludicrous.

Dooley is getting guys that he has somehow been able to build trust with... I'm not exactly sure why you're condemning that.

 

[joey-nac]

No I'm not. I'm comparing both coaches' wish lists. Pretending Dooley doesn't want those guys is ludicrous.

I agree with you in a lot of ways. The previous staff might have been the best recruiting staff ever put together. Kiffin and O were both renowned for their recruiting and what defensive player didn't want to play for CMK plus add in CLT and CJC and its a recruting staff unlike any other in the country IMHO.

Even with all of that we have landed Justin Hunter who we never would of with Kiffin and we are at least in the picture now for Da'Rick Rogers which we weren't before. I know what you mean the other staff was certainly better recruiters but they only won 7 games last year so as much as it sucks we gotta give CDD a year or two and see what kind of product he puts on the field because in the end thats the only thing that matters.

 

[Escape Goat]

I agree, He has proven in the past as a RC that he can haul in a #1 class. I have no worries with Dooley's recruiting ability

 

[s1216]

No I'm not. I'm comparing both coaches' wish lists. Pretending Dooley doesn't want those guys is ludicrous.

Why "compare" anything until after NSD unless you are just looking for something to gripe about?

 

[BigPapaVol]

Pretending that Dooley SHOULD be able to develop the type of relationship it would take to actually land those guys in 2 1/2 weeks when Kiffin only had a "chance" after recruiting them for a year or more is worse than ludicrous.

Dooley is getting guys that he has somehow been able to build trust with... I'm not exactly sure why you're condemning that.

I'm not condemning anything. Dooley might get there, but he won't be recruiting like the staff that just left. Rats not condemnation in the least. That group was great and had Name power that we no longer have. We will struggle with marquee players.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Why "compare" anything until after NSD unless you are just looking for something to gripe about?

Really? A comparison makes no sense here?

 

[VolAlumNGatrland]

I agree with you in a lot of ways. The previous staff might have been the best recruiting staff ever put together. Kiffin and O were both renowned for their recruiting and what defensive player didn't want to play for CMK plus add in CLT and CJC and its a recruting staff unlike any other in the country IMHO.

From BigPapaVol - [/QUOTE]Dooley might get there, but he won't be recruiting like the staff that just left. Rats not condemnation in the least. That group was great and had Name power that we no longer have. We will struggle with marquee players.[/QUOTE]

First let me say I was a Kiffin supporter and loved the swagger and the attitude. I hate how he left and all, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend I didn't like what he was doing (unlike many others on here).

With that said, there was one thing that had me wondering during this off-season...with all that recruiting prowess and being touted as the best recruiting staff ever - why were they being out recruited by other teams? Before you go there, I don't buy that the other teams are winning programs and have advantages over UT. Plus Auburn, Penn St. Oklahoma, etc should not be out recruiting UT - None of these schools have a better set up or more to offer a recruit than UT (penn st. better academics) If you are the BEST you are #1.

Yet, with the few exceptions UT was still not pulling in the #1 players at their positions. Yeah we got Palardy a kicker. Other than that what #1 guy did Lane bring in this year?? (B. Brown was last year and Chaney is credited with his recruitment) How many top 5 at their position did he grab for us?? the answer is NONE, ZIP, ZERO...But UF, Auburn, Michigan State, USCjr, LSU, FSU, OK, etc.. all have top 5 guys. In fact when it comes to the running backs we are recruiting now, Niel and Bennett...CLK had payed them both a visit in the weeks prior to his leaving, same is true of our latest DB commit, Loften. So Kiffin had already begun to "settle" as you put it for lesser talent.

As I see it, UF and Bama and maybe even the Barn have better recruiting staffs that UT did under Kiffin. Now, am I going to compare the Name Recognition that Dooley's unfinished staff has with that of CLK's staff? NO, CLK's staff wins hands down - for now, lets see who fills out Dooley's staff. Are they gonna get anyone as famous as Eddie O or Monte? again NO - but they are two of the most famous active coaches in football. Can Dooley make some good hires with NFL ties with some notoriety? Sure. Then give him a year to 18 months to develop ties to recruits and coaches and parents and we will see. I do not for one second believe that Dooley will not go after 4 and 5 star athletes now that he's at UT. He has Zero chance of getting in on most of them this year. Not enough time, and many who were interested feel betrayed a bit or were interested because of the last staff (see Ambles), so Dooley can't get back in on most of those....Some he can, and then he'll have to supplement with "hidden gems".

 

[bignewt]

so there.

 

[jsc1973]

First let me say I was a Kiffin supporter and loved the swagger and the attitude. I hate how he left and all, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend I didn't like what he was doing (unlike many others on here).

I never liked what he was doing at all. I thought it went against the things our program stands for. I tolerated what he did because Tennessee is my team and I'm not going to change allegiance because I disagree with something the coach is doing.

I hoped it would all work out and Kiffin would grow up in time. Thankfully, that is now USC's problem.

I think a lot of people on here that you think are "pretending" are actually of the same frame of mind that I'm in. We accepted Kiffin's antics while he was here, but we're relieved to have a coach who seems to want to do his talking with the scoreboard.

 

[jim43]

Rationalization also won't change the fact that CLK was consistently only "competing" and not winning against those guys. Who do you know he had won over vs those schools that UT has now lost?

They picked Ambles up but apparently UF, USC, and UGA had all lost interest or were slow playing him at the time. Taylor wasn't a commodity until the UA game. Willis already had serious reservations and had already de-committed from CLK.

It seems like you are making an assumption that things would have been better than they likely would have been then are using that to poo-pooh the commits DD is actually getting. More than likely UT would have signed more "fall backs" from the guys you're talking about than those guys.

DD appears to be doing at least as well as CLK did last year with much worse circumstances.

You are right. Also, one thought for those who say LK was competing with all those other schools, but now we will not be. If USC is the dream school (which most of us do not think so for a minute), then there should be no contest in recruiting this year. LK and his other scum have the same recruits they were recruiting on our dollars, and are now going after for USC. If he and his crew are so great, and SC is so great, then what excuse is there for him not to have the NR. 1 recruiting class this year?
Maybe he only "competes". I'll take a real man doing a real good job at Tennessee. Hollywood can have the Hollywood types.

 

[VolAlumNGatrland]

I never liked what he was doing at all. I thought it went against the things our program stands for. I tolerated what he did because Tennessee is my team and I'm not going to change allegiance because I disagree with something the coach is doing.

I hoped it would all work out and Kiffin would grow up in time. Thankfully, that is now USC's problem.

I think a lot of people on here that you think are "pretending" are actually of the same frame of mind that I'm in. We accepted Kiffin's antics while he was here, but we're relieved to have a coach who seems to want to do his talking with the scoreboard.

I respect your opinion, and while I am 100% sure that your are being truthful regards your feelings on the situation, I don't think it reflects the feelings of most people on here. I may have few posts but I've been reading this board for a couple years now. Many of the long time posters on here who were big Kiffin supporters are now his biggest detractors and say they never "really" liked him. I also think many Fulmer supporters and older fans did not like him, but they usually said so in no uncertain terms.

I though am originally from NJ, just outside NYC...so the swagger, the ambition, the take no prisoners - We are better than you so everyone can go suck it attitude....I loved every second of it. I am not a traditionalist, I am big on keeping up with the current newest trends and the best of them....I'm basically a New Yorker - fast paced and progressive. So I did like Kiffin's style....as a caveat, I did not like the lies and double talk and double dealing and negativity that surrounded him. But I also think some of that came from him being who he is and the traditions, biases, and over all ethos of the south being what it is, he was bound to ruffle feathers....

I think though many many people did buy into him as much as I did, especially the younger generation of fans. I also believe many supporters now want to deny their support. in the true tradition of south hypocrisy and intolerance of all that isn't southern

 

[volswillrise12]

I respect your opinion, and while I am 100% sure that your are being truthful regards your feelings on the situation, I don't think it reflects the feelings of most people on here. I may have few posts but I've been reading this board for a couple years now. Many of the long time posters on here who were big Kiffin supporters are now his biggest detractors and say they never "really" liked him. I also think many Fulmer supporters and older fans did not like him, but they usually said so in no uncertain terms.

I though am originally from NJ, just outside NYC...so the swagger, the ambition, the take no prisoners - We are better than you so everyone can go suck it attitude....I loved every second of it. I am not a traditionalist, I am big on keeping up with the current newest trends and the best of them....I'm basically a New Yorker - fast paced and progressive. So I did like Kiffin's style....as a caveat, I did not like the lies and double talk and double dealing and negativity that surrounded him. But I also think some of that came from him being who he is and the traditions, biases, and over all ethos of the south being what it is, he was bound to ruffle feathers....

I think though many many people did buy into him as much as I did, especially the younger generation of fans. I also believe many supporters now want to deny their support. in the true tradition of south hypocrisy and intolerance of all that isn't southern

I certainly bought into Lane Kiffin and I think many Vol fans did as well. Let's be honest--he energized the fan base of a program that's been in borderline mediocrity since the beginning of the decade. Hey I loved Phil as much as anyone---but recruiting is a young man's game and I don't think anyone denies the fact that Phil "tired" of it these last few years. I don't like to harp on the past but I'll just say that eventually we'll see what kind of coach Lane Kiffin is at USC. Of course, I'm happy about Coach Dooley and appreciate the work ethic he's displayed since taking the job.

I'm southern---and I think if you are a person that doesn't buy into stereotypes you wouldn't label other southern people. Let's not make this a political thing. If Kiffin would have gone undefeated this past year--then you would have seen a lot of converts--but that didn't happen. If you want an example of being intolerant towards coaches---I don't see that with Bruce Pearl.

 

[vol66]

So......any news on Stone...in the Stone thread?

 

[volswillrise12]

Sorry----we need Stone---does anyone see us scoring him as a surprise on NSD?

 

[sjt18]

in the true tradition of south hypocrisy and intolerance of all that isn't southern

Spoken in the true sense of northern arrogance, hypocrisy, intolerance of all things not "progressive", and downright ignorance of "all that is southern"... FTR, I live in Missouri.

Many urban northerners tend to dismiss and underestimate the value of people who in reality aren't inferior at all. I dealt with that type growing up in the NC Smokies... people who weren't nearly as smart as they thought they were condescending to people who weren't nearly as dumb as they thought they were. Contrary to your apparent POV, we allowed it because civility demanded we be politely "tolerant" of their ignorance.

I liked some of what Kiffin did. I believe he did do some things to get attention and gall people like Meyer. He was demanding and improved overall discipline. He's an excellent schemer and playcaller IMO. He and his staff had star power for recruiting and usually had UT competitive though usually outmanned.

However, Kiffin lacks character and integrity. He lied to the fans, administration, and most importantly the players. He convinced people he was in it to bring UT back. He convinced the players he had their backs. He took a desirable job as an undesired coach... and left it a year later as an undesired job. He lied about not recruiting UT's commits and recruits. The guy is such an effective liar that some recruits have believed whatever story he's told them about his move.

People were "tolerant" of his abuse of the UT image because he sold his false promises very well. People believed that winning would clear the table of what it took to get there.

The guy is a louse who bit the only hand previously willing to feed him. Love him all you want...

BTW, I think swagger is prerequisite for a great coach... but isn't mutually exclusive with "southern".

 

[SteelerVol]

am originally from NJ, just outside NYC...so the swagger, the ambition, the take no prisoners - We are better than you so everyone can go suck it attitude....I loved every second of it. I am not a traditionalist, I am big on keeping up with the current newest trends and the best of them....I'm basically a New Yorker - fast paced and progressive.
I think though many many people did buy into him as much as I did... I also believe many supporters now want to deny their support. in the true tradition of south hypocrisy and intolerance of all that isn't southern

I was born in NY but raised in Tennessee and can tell you that hypocrisy is not a trait you'll find exclusive to all southerners any more than I would imagine that everyone from NJ is quick to stereotype based on your comment. Most of the people I encounter throughout "your south" seem to be tremendously tolerant of "northern a**wipes"

And, the "go suck it attitude" is not something to be proud of unless you're willing to kiss your mother with that mouth.

 

[codyg10]

All Vol

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

All Vol

We will see. Everyone is even right now and James still has a trip to The Barn planned.