'10 TN OL James Stone

#1,178
#1,178
volswillrise12 said:
I certainly bought into Lane Kiffin and I think many Vol fans did as well. Let's be honest--he energized the fan base of a program that's been in borderline mediocrity since the beginning of the decade. Hey I loved Phil as much as anyone---but recruiting is a young man's game and I don't think anyone denies the fact that Phil "tired" of it these last few years. I don't like to harp on the past but I'll just say that eventually we'll see what kind of coach Lane Kiffin is at USC. Of course, I'm happy about Coach Dooley and appreciate the work ethic he's displayed since taking the job.

I'm southern---and I think if you are a person that doesn't buy into stereotypes you wouldn't label other southern people. Let's not make this a political thing. If Kiffin would have gone undefeated this past year--then you would have seen a lot of converts--but that didn't happen. If you want an example of being intolerant towards coaches---I don't see that with Bruce Pearl.
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I agree with you, and I wasn't really trying to make it a political thing. Just take some time and read through the posts and see how many anti-...liberal, California, etc slurs are made toward him. Also look at how many posts refer to Dooley, even the ones who think over all he is a bad hire...look how many say something along the lines of..well at least he's a southerner, or or speaks southern, or the like. That's all I was pointing out.

My mother was born in Jonesborough, TN and I chose to go to college at UT, so I don't have a poor opinion of the south as a whole. I currently live in FL in the middle of nowhere between Tampa and Gainesville. I have spent enough time in the south to recognize the "fake" welcome and handshake that barely covers the "yankee go home" lurking just behind it. Again, my point was that many UT fans on here have been acting in this disingenuous manner. Its not a sweeping sterotype - just making application to whom it applies.
 
#1,181
#1,181
By definition... tolerance would include extending courtesy to someone you really would rather have "go home". You can't have it both ways. You can't simultaneously call people intolerant for wanting rid of you and hypocritical for tolerating your presence anyway.
 
#1,182
#1,182
ole_orange said:
Okay...so how about Stone?
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Like'm. Hope he isn't Preston Bailey v1.2.

Seriously he seems to be a kid that was put off by the approach of the old staff but maybe has a soft spot for UT. I seem to remember him being tight with J Smith so there would seem to be reason for optimism.
 
#1,183
#1,183
1. I've heard that this guy is a done deal for UT. I don't believe it. If that is true why wouldn't he just say it?

2. I'll add my two cents and leave it at that. I don't want to argue about this, but I hear this type of back of forth all the time and want to offer my unique experience as a nomad.

I was born in East Tennessee, raised here, went to high school in Chatt, and college in VA.

After that I lived in Atlanta, Chicago, Northern PA right near Scranton (ain't no party like a Scranton party!), Binghamton and Syracuse, NY. Also spent a few months in Boone, NC.

People in the North really don't have a bad opinion of Tennessee. They think of Nashville, Memphis, the Smokies, and think really highly of Chattanooga. They view Tennessee as a beautiful state with a lot to offer, with quaint, polite people. They really speak highly of the people, most that have been here want to move here. Same goes for Chicago people except for the moving here part, b/c Chicago is the best American city. When I told people in Chicago I was from Tennessee, it was normally met with a smile, and a lot of interested questions. And the chicks really dug it.

I do think some people in the South are pretty anti-Northerner. I sound like a Yankee and have encountered some that are not too keen on that down here. It makes me mad but, I understand that is equally counter-balanced by the abundance of absolutely individual, interesting and fantastic human beings here.

But, that being said, the majority of people everywhere I have been are way more tolerant than we give them credit for, especially those that have been away from home and learn to appreciate it for what it is. And calling someone "progressive" should be a positive thing. Would you rather them be "regressive"? That would truly be terrible....
 
#1,184
#1,184
You love being a progressive? So the school in VA was not WnL, or Liberty? The opposite of wanting to be a progressive could just be a good old fashioned conservative. Sometimes hope and change leads us away from the bad and towards the good. Sometimes it creates debt slavery and destroys our economy.

I would be insulted to be labeled a progressive.
 
#1,185
#1,185
sjt18 said:
Spoken in the true sense of northern arrogance, hypocrisy, intolerance of all things not "progressive", and downright ignorance of "all that is southern"... FTR, I live in Missouri.

Many urban northerners tend to dismiss and underestimate the value of people who in reality aren't inferior at all. I dealt with that type growing up in the NC Smokies... people who weren't nearly as smart as they thought they were condescending to people who weren't nearly as dumb as they thought they were. Contrary to your apparent POV, we allowed it because civility demanded we be politely "tolerant" of their ignorance.

I liked some of what Kiffin did. I believe he did do some things to get attention and gall people like Meyer. He was demanding and improved overall discipline. He's an excellent schemer and playcaller IMO. He and his staff had star power for recruiting and usually had UT competitive though usually outmanned.

However, Kiffin lacks character and integrity. He lied to the fans, administration, and most importantly the players. He convinced people he was in it to bring UT back. He convinced the players he had their backs. He took a desirable job as an undesired coach... and left it a year later as an undesired job. He lied about not recruiting UT's commits and recruits. The guy is such an effective liar that some recruits have believed whatever story he's told them about his move.

People were "tolerant" of his abuse of the UT image because he sold his false promises very well. People believed that winning would clear the table of what it took to get there.

The guy is a louse who bit the only hand previously willing to feed him. Love him all you want...

BTW, I think swagger is prerequisite for a great coach... but isn't mutually exclusive with "southern".
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I am not tolerant. I am accepting. I've lived in TN for 5 years and in FL for 5 years now. My entire family on my mother's side was born and raised in east TN, including my mother. So I am very familiar with the south and southern ways and heritage.

You all seemed to miss the point however - I'm for honesty, not tolerance per se. If you didn't like Kiffin then say so...many many many VOLS fans were consistent in voicing their displeasure with him, they were very forthright in their criticisms. However, many more were, as you say, tolerant. They voiced their support, while secretly despising many facets of the guy....thats what I was pointing out...its the same way many southerns, not all, treat people not from the south with similar duplicity. If you don't think its still prevalent I invite you to visit the town where i live - with bumper stickers "I don't care how you did it up north" and confederate flags all over...

As for the part of your quote I bolded - you nor any other person knew that to be true of Kiffin til he left. So to say in hind sight, you feel that way about him...i'm fine with that. I feel that same way. I bought in and was lied to, now I despise the guy. But not cause he's from LA, or a liberal, or whatever...but because he's a liar and untrustworthy
 
#1,188
#1,188
Is he "start as a freshman" developed, or a couple year project? We need big help on the line. Does anyone know who should be starting on the line next year? I was just trying to figure it out and couldn't.
 
#1,191
#1,191
VolAlumNGatrland said:
I am not tolerant. I am accepting.
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I am barely tolerant of "accepting"/post-modern types... They're often hypocrites. They claim to be "accepting or tolerant" but then condemn those they consider "intolerant".

I don't know you or any of the others here. I'm not progressive. I'm not conservative by the world politics definition. Most American conservatives are actually somewhat to very "libertarian".

Anyone who considers themselves "progressive" needs to do some historical research. Progressives advocated for eugenics and were enamoured with fascism in the 20's. They're largely responsible for things like the Tuskegee experiments and projects to sterilize "undesirable breeders" back in the early 20th century. Progressives then as now don't believe in the sanctity of individual rights and liberties. They assume many labels but are universally "statists".
But not cause he's from LA, or a liberal, or whatever...but because he's a liar and untrustworthy
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Oddly, he isn't from LA. I have no idea what his politics are or if he even cares. Glad we can agree in our intolerance of liars though.
 
#1,192
#1,192
PoochPunt3rdDown said:
1. I've heard that this guy is a done deal for UT. I don't believe it. If that is true why wouldn't he just say it?

2. I'll add my two cents and leave it at that. I don't want to argue about this, but I hear this type of back of forth all the time and want to offer my unique experience as a nomad.

I was born in East Tennessee, raised here, went to high school in Chatt, and college in VA.

After that I lived in Atlanta, Chicago, Northern PA right near Scranton (ain't no party like a Scranton party!), Binghamton and Syracuse, NY. Also spent a few months in Boone, NC.

People in the North really don't have a bad opinion of Tennessee. They think of Nashville, Memphis, the Smokies, and think really highly of Chattanooga. They view Tennessee as a beautiful state with a lot to offer, with quaint, polite people. They really speak highly of the people, most that have been here want to move here. Same goes for Chicago people except for the moving here part, b/c Chicago is the best American city. When I told people in Chicago I was from Tennessee, it was normally met with a smile, and a lot of interested questions. And the chicks really dug it.

I do think some people in the South are pretty anti-Northerner. I sound like a Yankee and have encountered some that are not too keen on that down here. It makes me mad but, I understand that is equally counter-balanced by the abundance of absolutely individual, interesting and fantastic human beings here.

But, that being said, the majority of people everywhere I have been are way more tolerant than we give them credit for, especially those that have been away from home and learn to appreciate it for what it is. And calling someone "progressive" should be a positive thing. Would you rather them be "regressive"? That would truly be terrible....
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Amen! I agree 100% Not one person I know in the NY area that I am friends with has a negative view of TN. When I was living there many came to visit and had a ball. I love it myself and miss it in many ways. The one thing I have a hard time with is the anti-northern sentiments, and its 10x worse where I live in FL now. thanks for explaining your experience in a less brash manner than I did
 
#1,193
#1,193
He will not start as a freshman, he was a high prospect as a junior but came to the UT camp and was dominated and looked worse than guys like Fulton who were ranked lower. He said he was sick.

Then his whole senior year he kind of looked like he was lazy or slow or something.

He has a great mind, and great character from what I hear. He may have had senioritis. He did not seem to have fire or passion, and in part that could also be attributed to being on a team that was less than fantastic.

Fulton and Pair need to add weight to play on the line...That is easier to do in a college weight program than it is to try to get faster.

Stone may turn out to be great, but I would like to see him red shirt.

Shon Coleman, JaWuan James, John Cullen and Chaz Green seemed like they were most ready to contribute immediately.

I would still love James Stone, Arie Kouandjio, Damien Robinson or even Morgan Moses over another non OL 3 star in a class that needs beef, but we only have 1 guy who I think is going to be ready to play in the SEC by fall and that is JJ.
 
#1,194
#1,194
sjt18 said:
I am barely tolerant of "accepting"/post-modern types... They're often hypocrites. They claim to be "accepting or tolerant" but then condemn those they consider "intolerant".

I don't know you or any of the others here. I'm not progressive. I'm not conservative by the world politics definition. Most American conservatives are actually somewhat to very "libertarian".

Anyone who considers themselves "progressive" needs to do some historical research. Progressives advocated for eugenics and were enamoured with fascism in the 20's. They're largely responsible for things like the Tuskegee experiments and projects to sterilize "undesirable breeders" back in the early 20th century. Progressives then as now don't believe in the sanctity of individual rights and liberties. They assume many labels but are universally "statists".


Oddly, he isn't from LA. I have no idea what his politics are or if he even cares. Glad we can agree in our intolerance of liars though.
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Being progressive and subscribing to the tenets of the progressivist movement based in the philosophy of Dewey and James are two totally different things. Favoring progress in an ever evolving society, looking for ways to improve, well anything and everything, technologically, socially, politically, etc... that's more what I am talking about. In that way I am proud to be labeled progressive and also liberal...but let's not go down that road too.....

As for Stone I think we ALL agree we'd love to see him in orange and get his signature on NSD...I think now, more than ever, we have a good shot to land this guy
 
#1,195
#1,195
VolAlumNGatrland said:
Favoring progress in an ever evolving society, looking for ways to improve, well anything and everything, technologically, socially, politically, etc... that's more what I am talking about.
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The problem is... some people think they or even the majority should decide what is "progressive" for everyone. If you want to be "progressive"... fine. Just don't ask me to finance it or support it... and don't ask me to sacrifice my rights and liberties in the name of what you call "progress".

Society may evolve but natural law (called divine law by some) doesn't evolve. It is static. Societies succeed in as much as they are "evolving" toward truth and freedom/responsibility.

Like I said on Stone... I hope he isn't Preston Bailey v1.2.
 
#1,199
#1,199
The hardest part for me living in Tennessee is the politics of the majority here in this state. The best part is Tennessee football. Can we please stop mixing the two?
 
#1,200
#1,200
PoochPunt3rdDown said:
Is he "start as a freshman" developed, or a couple year project? We need big help on the line. Does anyone know who should be starting on the line next year? I was just trying to figure it out and couldn't.
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Needs to develop in pass blocking, much like any Tennessee HS OL.
 
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