'10 WA QB Jake Heaps

#1,526
#1,526
whsie said:
I'm not sure how there is this perception that UW is a school that is only in the count because of the home school factor.

First of all, UW DOES have a winning tradition. I'm not sure where you got that. Even after the worst 5 year drought in the Willingham era, UW still has a top 20 winning %. In a recent ESPN Prestige ranking (essentially tradition), UW, even after the worst 5 years ever, was ranked #17. U Tenn was #12. Does U Tenn have more tradition? Yes, but to say the margin is light years is totally false. Furthermore, in the past, UW and UCLA have been traditionally the schools that challenged USC for the top spot. Until recent years, that has been the norm.

As for producing NFL QBs, I'm also not sure where you guys got your information. In two Sporting News articles on QB U, one ranked UW at #4 and the other ranked it at #15. While #4 seems a bit high for one of them, top 10 is legit when every UW QB has at some point played in the pros. Yes, every QB since the Warren Moon (HOF) to even Isiah Stanback (4th rounder on Cowboys), who is considered a weaker QB from UW, has played in the pros. Right before UW fell in obscurity in 2000, they had the most QBs in the NFL (6). Remember, the point in this paragraph, like before, is not whether UW or Tennesse is better at producing QB, but rather that UW is a solid QB NFL factory. It's true that the UW hasn't produced a top QB in the NFL since Mark Bruenell in the 90s, but their productivity in the NFL depends on pro coaching. The school just has to get the player in, which the UW has done without any breaks since the 70s. Even right now, the streak will likely continue if Jake Locker can get his passing % to even 55%, which is very plausible since Locker has shown great improvement over Spring (16/18 passes. I don't care if it's against weak defense. 16/18 is impressive and is a improvement from before.)

Speaking of which, the Huskies hired two top of the line QB coaches in Sark (one of the 2 areas that I'm confident in Sark) and Doug Nuissmeir. Sark deserves 100% of the credit for Mark Sanchez and John David Booty. He deserves at least 50% of the credit for Matt Leinart because the QB coaches works with the QB more than the OC and I know because Doug currently is working more with Locker than Sark is. Carson Palmer is hard to tell since Sark just arrived on the scene during his junior year. Hard to tell. Doug was known to have coached a kid at Michigan State (don't know the Big 10 well) who threw over 4000 yards. Credentials at QB? Yes. Objectively, I'll say that UW's QB coaches are better than Reeves. Also, Heaps has developed a decent relation with Doug, so that should be interesting.

Lastly, UW does have talent, but it is extremely raw because it was completely undeveloped by the previous staff. Worst of all the units by far was the offensive line. They were slow, overweight, and raw. Talk about disaster. This is the only unit without much talent at all. The others such as TE have decent-great talent. Kavario Middleton was a 5 star TE (think of this year's Xavier Grimble) and showed great receiving abilities..., until he got injured. At WR, UW has 3 4 star recievers and a Pac Honorable Mention WR in D Andrew Goodwin. If I went on, it would take ages, but the point is that other than the Offensive line, UW has talent. If the revamped staff can develop it, then the team would quickly rise again.

And just for clarity, if Heaps were to commit, he would essentially redshirt ONE (not 2) year (Locker's RS Senior year) to learn the playbook and get some coaching before he starts. It's actually ideal in terms of a the depth chart.

Again, all of this is not to show whether UW is > than UT, but the general perception of UW as nothing other than a home school is wrong.
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My goodness what a homer. And LOL at the Sark getting all the credit for USC's QBs.
 
#1,527
#1,527
Volfan76 said:
Dude, I don't know where you got all of those stats from, but they don't pass the eyeball test so i'm not going to bother to fact check it. Simple fact of the matter is that UW is irrelevant outside of washington. Jake, like everyone outside of the state knows this, because his career is on the line...he wants to not only go to the nfl, but be successful in the nfl and uw doesn't give him a very good chances of that. it's between byu and ut...just be happy you had a great player come from the state. you made him strong...we'll make him nfl strong!
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As I said, I'm just posting to correct some misperceptions. I'm personally neutral on the issue. If UT is the leader, then so be it, but there certainly is more to the home factor. Explain how is UW irrevelent outside of Washington? Washington has traditionally competed for the best CA prospects. I'll admit that UW in recent years under Ty have backed off CA, but traditionally they could get a few top CA prospects. Now, if Jake Heaps was in Oregon, I could see why UW is out and certainly, the home factor is a factor, but UW isn't being looked at solely for the home factor reason as most think on this board.

In addition, in last year's class, around 80% of the recruits were from Cal and only 2 recruits were from Washington.

If you want fact checking...
-Rank of prestige/tradition of college football programs
#17
Counting down college football's most prestigious programs (16-20) - ESPN

-From wikipedia, UW's winning % rank 20th as of 2008. All time record is 653-398-50

-QB U ranks at #4 and #15
Scout.com: Quarterback U. - The Best College QB Schools
Scout.com: Quarterback U - The Top All-Around QB Schools
You could also access them from foxsports

-For the UW quarterbacks. Go to Isiah Stanback's wikipedia page and go to the bottom where it has a "Starting Washington Quarterback" and go back all the way to Warren Moon and you'll see that all of them played at the pro.

-Warren Moon is HOF. Just look at the archives :/
Mark Brunell. mid to late 90s top QB. Not too hard to find.

And lastly, I wonder. If you aren't crediting the QB coach for USC's QB from Leinart-Sanchez, then who? Chow? If you were to look at Chow, he coached Palmer-Leinart and even then, Sark was the QB coach the whole entire time.

Sark was QB coach from 01-08. I think he had one season as QB coach with the Raiders, but didn't like it. He added on OC duties from 07-08, but still was the QB coach. In that way, you can almost completely credit Booty and Sanchez to Sark.
For Leinart, he came about a year after Sark and was coached throughout his career by both Sark and Chow. That's why I account for around 50% of the credit to Sark. After all, the QB coach works more with the QB than the OC because... he's the QB coach lol. It's his only major duty.
Palmer is a bit of a unknown as to who coached him. People tend to credit Chow and I can see that because Sark was just a noob at that time.

And you guys probably won't see me post too often. I'm only posting today because I'm taking a day off after a brutal Sunday-Tues.
 
#1,529
#1,529
whsie said:
As I said, I'm just posting to correct some misperceptions. I'm personally neutral on the issue. If UT is the leader, then so be it, but there certainly is more to the home factor. Explain how is UW irrevelent outside of Washington? Washington has traditionally competed for the best CA prospects. I'll admit that UW in recent years under Ty have backed off CA, but traditionally they could get a few top CA prospects. Now, if Jake Heaps was in Oregon, I could see why UW is out and certainly, the home factor is a factor, but UW isn't being looked at solely for the home factor reason as most think on this board.

In addition, in last year's class, around 80% of the recruits were from Cal and only 2 recruits were from Washington.

If you want fact checking...
-Rank of prestige/tradition of college football programs
#17
Counting down college football's most prestigious programs (16-20) - ESPN

-From wikipedia, UW's winning % rank 20th as of 2008. All time record is 653-398-50

-QB U ranks at #4 and #15
Scout.com: Quarterback U. - The Best College QB Schools
Scout.com: Quarterback U - The Top All-Around QB Schools
You could also access them from foxsports

-For the UW quarterbacks. Go to Isiah Stanback's wikipedia page and go to the bottom where it has a "Starting Washington Quarterback" and go back all the way to Warren Moon and you'll see that all of them played at the pro.

-Warren Moon is HOF. Just look at the archives :/
Mark Brunell. mid to late 90s top QB. Not too hard to find.

And lastly, I wonder. If you aren't crediting the QB coach for USC's QB from Leinart-Sanchez, then who? Chow? If you were to look at Chow, he coached Palmer-Leinart and even then, Sark was the QB coach the whole entire time.

Sark was QB coach from 01-08. I think he had one season as QB coach with the Raiders, but didn't like it. He added on OC duties from 07-08, but still was the QB coach. In that way, you can almost completely credit Booty and Sanchez to Sark.
For Leinart, he came about a year after Sark and was coached throughout his career by both Sark and Chow. That's why I account for around 50% of the credit to Sark. After all, the QB coach works more with the QB than the OC because... he's the QB coach lol. It's his only major duty.
Palmer is a bit of a unknown as to who coached him. People tend to credit Chow and I can see that because Sark was just a noob at that time.

And you guys probably won't see me post too often. I'm only posting today because I'm taking a day off after a brutal Sunday-Tues.
Click to expand...

Homer
 
#1,531
#1,531
this guy is way worse than wheaton. i cant read these posts. they are more accurately described as novellas. udub went 0-12 in the pac 10. thats all i have to say. thats awful.
 
#1,532
#1,532
whsie said:
As I said, I'm just posting to correct some misperceptions. I'm personally neutral on the issue. If UT is the leader, then so be it, but there certainly is more to the home factor. Explain how is UW irrevelent outside of Washington? Washington has traditionally competed for the best CA prospects. I'll admit that UW in recent years under Ty have backed off CA, but traditionally they could get a few top CA prospects. Now, if Jake Heaps was in Oregon, I could see why UW is out and certainly, the home factor is a factor, but UW isn't being looked at solely for the home factor reason as most think on this board.

In addition, in last year's class, around 80% of the recruits were from Cal and only 2 recruits were from Washington.

If you want fact checking...
-Rank of prestige/tradition of college football programs
#17
Counting down college football's most prestigious programs (16-20) - ESPN

-From wikipedia, UW's winning % rank 20th as of 2008. All time record is 653-398-50

-QB U ranks at #4 and #15
Scout.com: Quarterback U. - The Best College QB Schools
Scout.com: Quarterback U - The Top All-Around QB Schools
You could also access them from foxsports

-For the UW quarterbacks. Go to Isiah Stanback's wikipedia page and go to the bottom where it has a "Starting Washington Quarterback" and go back all the way to Warren Moon and you'll see that all of them played at the pro.

-Warren Moon is HOF. Just look at the archives :/
Mark Brunell. mid to late 90s top QB. Not too hard to find.

And lastly, I wonder. If you aren't crediting the QB coach for USC's QB from Leinart-Sanchez, then who? Chow? If you were to look at Chow, he coached Palmer-Leinart and even then, Sark was the QB coach the whole entire time.

Sark was QB coach from 01-08. I think he had one season as QB coach with the Raiders, but didn't like it. He added on OC duties from 07-08, but still was the QB coach. In that way, you can almost completely credit Booty and Sanchez to Sark.
For Leinart, he came about a year after Sark and was coached throughout his career by both Sark and Chow. That's why I account for around 50% of the credit to Sark. After all, the QB coach works more with the QB than the OC because... he's the QB coach lol. It's his only major duty.
Palmer is a bit of a unknown as to who coached him. People tend to credit Chow and I can see that because Sark was just a noob at that time.

And you guys probably won't see me post too often. I'm only posting today because I'm taking a day off after a brutal Sunday-Tues.
Click to expand...

Ok...I know washington's big claim to fame is the great warren moon but as far as preparing a qb for the nfl goes....warren wasn't even drafted by the nfl out of college. he had to go to the canadian football league before he was wanted by any team in the nfl. was it because uw didn't prepare him or because they are so irrelevant that nobody noticed him there???...your choice. as far as your other "great star", i think jake has more of a vision of becoming the next peyton manning, not the next mark brunell....which brings us back the original statement. washington only offers the allure of home team. just to refresh everyones memory..what was washingtons record in the "mighty" pac last year? 0-?? oops...i'm sure they will turn it around THIS year though! go home and go VOLS!
 
#1,534
#1,534
droski said:
personally i can buy the UW argument far more than the oregon argument. UW has tradition, a huge fanbase, and is in a great city. oregon is in the middle of nowhere, has a very fickle fanbase, and the state of oregon produces almost zero div 1a recruits. but what the UW people ignore is that USC was in the toilet when they were great. UW used to regurally take recruits from southern california. that wont happen with SC and Cal (and ucla) going strong.

but my friend who is very tuned in with hte cal staff does truly believe that heaps is no diehard fan and thinks that sark and family pressure is the only way he ends up at UW.
Click to expand...
Let's face it...Oregon has to resort to gimmicky uniform changes and color schemes to try and offset the fact that they have the gayest name in all of college football (DUCKS). South Carolina (Game) COCKS takes a close second. One IS Chicken and the other tastes like chicken... :p
 
#1,535
#1,535
Volfan76 said:
Ok...I know washington's big claim to fame is the great warren moon but as far as preparing a qb for the nfl goes....warren wasn't even drafted by the nfl out of college. he had to go to the canadian football league before he was wanted by any team in the nfl. was it because uw didn't prepare him or because they are so irrelevant that nobody noticed him there???...your choice. as far as your other "great star", i think jake has more of a vision of becoming the next peyton manning, not the next mark brunell....which brings us back the original statement. washington only offers the allure of home team. just to refresh everyones memory..what was washingtons record in the "mighty" pac last year? 0-?? oops...i'm sure they will turn it around THIS year though! go home and go VOLS!
Click to expand...

Actually, Warren Moon was coached by Coach Ray something (died a few years back) who was a top QB coach at the time. During his induction into the HOF, he also greatly credited the UW and Don James for his development. Even during his college career, he was actually lightly recruited and Don James decided to give him a chance.

The reason he went undrafted despite what people call a successful senior year, according to Moon himself, is because he refused to switch to TE. I have no idea why.

Besides, though Moon wasn't drafted, he did go to the Canadian league and basically became the most dominant QB in the league (and top 1-2 of all time) almost immediately. Even with only 6 seasons, he is considered the 5th best player on the Canadian league by TSN. If anything, it's more like the NFL missed something. You don't have a player go into the Canadian league and lead the team to 5 Grey Cups and get a load of accolades. Yes, it's the Canadian league, but this still proves that the NFL scouts overlooked him.

I already mentioned that the point is that UW consistently gets QB into the NFL. Whether it's the NFL draft or later on (like Damon Huard and Warren Moon), they eventually play in the pros and have a streak since the 70s. And whether someone becomes a Peyton Manning or Joe Montana is not entirely reliant on college. Steve Young didn't immediately come out of BYU the QB that he would be in the early 90s. I highly doubt Peyton in 1998 is the same Peyton who won the Super Bowl in 06. At some point, the pro team has take responsibility. In any case, UW has consistently produced pros.

Lastly, I'll say that Washington's record is 0-12 and so be it. I'm not here to say Jake Heaps will choose Washington or that UW is favored. It's just that I've been reading the board for a while and it's painful to see all these misperceptions that UW never produces QBs, that they have no tradition, etc.

Anyway, my off day is over. If you guys dislike my long posts, then congrats, you won't see me for a while.
Oh yeah, I'm not from Washington or the Pacific Northwest for that matter.
 
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#1,536
#1,536
whsie said:
Actually, Warren Moon was coached by Coach Ray something (died a few years back) who was a top QB coach at the time. During his induction into the HOF, he also greatly credited the UW and Don James for his development. Even during his college career, he was actually lightly recruited and Don James decided to give him a chance.

The reason he went undrafted despite what people call a successful senior year, according to Moon himself, is because he refused to switch to TE. I have no idea why.

Besides, though Moon wasn't drafted, he did go to the Canadian league and basically became the most dominant QB in the league (and top 1-2 of all time) almost immediately. Even with only 6 seasons, he is considered the 5th best player on the Canadian league by TSN. If anything, it's more like the NFL missed something. You don't have a player go into the Canadian league and lead the team to 5 Grey Cups and get a load of accolades. Yes, it's the Canadian league, but this still proves that the NFL scouts overlooked him.

I already mentioned that the point is that UW consistently gets QB into the NFL. Whether it's the NFL draft or later on (like Damon Huard and Warren Moon), they eventually play in the pros and have a streak since the 70s. And whether someone becomes a Peyton Manning or Joe Montana is not entirely reliant on college. Steve Young didn't immediately come out of BYU the QB that he would be in the early 90s. I highly doubt Peyton in 1998 is the same Peyton who won the Super Bowl in 06. At some point, the pro team has take responsibility. In any case, UW has consistently produced pros.

Lastly, I'll say that Washington's record is 0-12 and so be it. I'm not here to say Jake Heaps will choose Washington or that UW is favored. It's just that I've been reading the board for a while and it's painful to see all these misperceptions that UW never produces QBs, that they have no tradition, etc.

Anyway, my off day is over. If you guys dislike my long posts, then congrats, you won't see me for a while.
Oh yeah, I'm not from Washington or the Pacific Northwest for that matter.
Click to expand...

Every QB that has started for the Vols for a full season or more, since the early 90's has been drafted in the NFL. And UW has...Moon, who wasn't even drafted. Nuff said. There is a very real reason the UT HC position was highly coveted and the UW position was not. It stunk well before Willingham got there.

Now hurry on back to your dog house...Someone might call Animal control on you.
 
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#1,537
#1,537
TENNaciousUTfan said:
Every QB that has started for the Vols for a full season or more, since the early 90's has been drafted in the NFL. And UW has...Moon, who wasn't even drafted. Nuff said. There is a very real reason the UT HC position was highly coveted and the UW position was not. It stunk well before Willingham got there.

Now hurry on back to your dog house...Someone might call Animal control on you.
Click to expand...

Casey Clausen didn't get drafted.
 
#1,539
#1,539
whsie said:
As I said, I'm just posting to correct some misperceptions. I'm personally neutral on the issue.
Click to expand...

I might be a little more neutral after an 0-12 season, but as a UT fan, I've never experienced it. So again, I'm biased in assuming that I can relate to what it's like to be in your shoes.

Yet, every board needs a neutral perspective to provoke rational discourse and we're thankful you've decided to sacrifice your time to bring the voice of reason to us. Welcome. :hi:

So, in your unbiased view, do you think Kiffin made a grave mistake in not taking the UW job?
 
#1,541
#1,541
whsie said:
Actually, Warren Moon was coached by Coach Ray something (died a few years back) who was a top QB coach at the time. During his induction into the HOF, he also greatly credited the UW and Don James for his development. Even during his college career, he was actually lightly recruited and Don James decided to give him a chance.

The reason he went undrafted despite what people call a successful senior year, according to Moon himself, is because he refused to switch to TE. I have no idea why.

Besides, though Moon wasn't drafted, he did go to the Canadian league and basically became the most dominant QB in the league (and top 1-2 of all time) almost immediately. Even with only 6 seasons, he is considered the 5th best player on the Canadian league by TSN. If anything, it's more like the NFL missed something. You don't have a player go into the Canadian league and lead the team to 5 Grey Cups and get a load of accolades. Yes, it's the Canadian league, but this still proves that the NFL scouts overlooked him.

I already mentioned that the point is that UW consistently gets QB into the NFL. Whether it's the NFL draft or later on (like Damon Huard and Warren Moon), they eventually play in the pros and have a streak since the 70s. And whether someone becomes a Peyton Manning or Joe Montana is not entirely reliant on college. Steve Young didn't immediately come out of BYU the QB that he would be in the early 90s. I highly doubt Peyton in 1998 is the same Peyton who won the Super Bowl in 06. At some point, the pro team has take responsibility. In any case, UW has consistently produced pros.

Lastly, I'll say that Washington's record is 0-12 and so be it. I'm not here to say Jake Heaps will choose Washington or that UW is favored. It's just that I've been reading the board for a while and it's painful to see all these misperceptions that UW never produces QBs, that they have no tradition, etc.

Anyway, my off day is over. If you guys dislike my long posts, then congrats, you won't see me for a while.
Oh yeah, I'm not from Washington or the Pacific Northwest for that matter.
Click to expand...

So you think that Moon didn't get drafted by the nfl because uw is irrelevant? I personally don't think thats the case because he was in the cfl for 5 years before he got any interest from the nfl, but i'm not going to argue that point. But to say that uw consistently produces nfl qb's is ridiculous. did you seriously bring up damon huard? uw didn't win a single game last year...if heaps wasn't from washington they would know better than to even offer him a scholarship. the only misperceptions are in your long winded posts. you have an agenda and you aren't seeing things clearly...get over it.
 
#1,543
#1,543
whsie said:
Furthermore, in the past, UW and UCLA have been traditionally the schools that challenged USC for the top spot. Until recent years, that has been the norm.
.
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the norm? take out the don james era and UW is in cal and stanford territory when SC was in it's worst run in SC history. as for UW having talent and recruiting well out of Cali. that was 20 years ago when USC/oregon/cal was in the toilet. currently your recruiting has sucked. 5th in the pac-10 at best over the past 10 years.
 
#1,546
#1,546
The reason that Moon wasn't drafted out of college is that unfortunately a lot of people back then didn't think a black QB could be successful in the NFL. They told him he had to switch to TE if he wanted to play in the NFL. Hell, Doug Williams was asked in 87 "how long have you been a black quaterback"
 
#1,547
#1,547
 
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