104th Annual Rose Bowl #2 Oklahoma vs #3 Georgia

#826
#826
volfan102455 said:
Good grief! Give it up.

On second thought - as you are now a UGA fan, just find that board and go there.
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He wouldn't make it 10 minutes trying to convince someone that Hurd/Kamara was a better duo than Chubb and Michel.

Kamara is a part-time player making plays and Hurd won't make it in the NFL. Never was fast enough, shifty enough and a lot of times, not tough enough to make big plays regularly. Part-time players are NOT superstars by the way. Kamara is doing well but let him become a 20-25 touch a game guy and lets see where we are at.
 
#827
#827
TDawg said:
NOW THIS is one where you can say "I was the only one that said ..." because THIS takes a high level of drugs in your system to actually believe this. You do realize that this is the first year that UGAs line has been developed and gelled together since Chubb and Michel got there right?

You do realize both Chubb and Michel have missed a reasonable amount of games due to injury right? And yet they have still become the most prolific rushing duo in CFB history. Not any planet has Hurd EVER been better than either of those guys and Kamara has never had to make enough carries for us to know if he can be a featured back. Both Chubb and Michel have done that.
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We'll see who does better in the NFL.

As I say with all these debates about college players, I'll let the NFL expose who was better than who.

For example, I was consistent last year in saying Alvin was a better RB than Fournette or Cook. People didn't wanna believe that. They called me crazy. One season into their NFL careers and Alvin has proven to be better. I let the NFL decide these debates.
 
#828
#828
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
We'll see who does better in the NFL.

As I say with all these debates about college players, I'll let the NFL expose who was better than who.

For example, I was consistent last year in saying Alvin was a better RB than Fournette or Cook. People didn't wanna believe that. They called me crazy. One season into their NFL careers and Alvin has proven to be better. I let the NFL decide these debates.
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You do realize right that Fournette split carries and got about 50% of J-villes carries this year and still got over 1000 yards to go along with over 30 receptions? I guarantee you that the Jacksonville front office isn't looking at the Fournette pick going "man, we could have had Alvin Kamara instead of this guy" .. in fact, they are probably saying "glad we picked up an every down bell cow, plug and play, give em the rock big back."

Alvin had a higher YPC but in limited carries that doesn't usually translate out to what will have had he been given a feature back load. He had more receptions and receiving yards but that isn't what a feature back does.

As for Cook, he was having a damn fine year at almost 5 YPC prior to his injury .. as a feature back. When Alvin is given a feature back load and still ripping 5 or 6 YPC, then I will agree, he was the better back. But right now, he is still second on his own team as a RB.

I can't get into the "next Marshall Faulk" thing when his coach says it because he plays him like he's the next Kevin Faulk instead. Look at Warrick Dunn's stats and his career. If AK's career plays out that way, he will have had a great career but he isn't even getting enough carries to warrant that.
 
#829
#829
TDawg said:
Kamara is doing well but let him become a 20-25 touch a game guy and lets see where we are at.
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I'm not sure other teams want him to become that full time guy. I mean, he's only been rookie of the week seven times in his first season and has over 1,500 yards of rushing and receiving.
 
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#830
#830
Grand Vol said:
I'm not sure other teams want him to become that full time guy. I mean, he's only been rookie of the week seven times in his first season and has over 1,500 yards of rushing and receiving.
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Then how will he ever fulfill the great D4H prophecy of being a Hall of Famer already?
 
#835
#835
TDawg said:
You do realize right that Fournette split carries and got about 50% of J-villes carries this year and still got over 1000 yards to go along with over 30 receptions? I guarantee you that the Jacksonville front office isn't looking at the Fournette pick going "man, we could have had Alvin Kamara instead of this guy" .. in fact, they are probably saying "glad we picked up an every down bell cow, plug and play, give em the rock big back."

Alvin had a higher YPC but in limited carries that doesn't usually translate out to what will have had he been given a feature back load. He had more receptions and receiving yards but that isn't what a feature back does.

As for Cook, he was having a damn fine year at almost 5 YPC prior to his injury .. as a feature back. When Alvin is given a feature back load and still ripping 5 or 6 YPC, then I will agree, he was the better back. But right now, he is still second on his own team as a RB.

I can't get into the "next Marshall Faulk" thing when his coach says it because he plays him like he's the next Kevin Faulk instead. Look at Warrick Dunn's stats and his career. If AK's career plays out that way, he will have had a great career but he isn't even getting enough carries to warrant that.
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While it's true Fournette missed 3 games outright (might have had a shot at the rushing title if stayed healthy) he averaged close to 20 carries per game when he played. He did very little true "splitting carries" like Kamara. This doesn't change the accuracy in your observation that being expected to carry the load like Fournette (#4 in att per game) vs being the change-of-pace guy (#55 apg) like Kamara are two different animals.

Now having said the above Kamara is extremely effective out of the backfield in the passing game. Even though Alvin was over 300y behind Fournette in rushing he was over 200y ahead in yards from scrimmage.

Also barring bad luck Kamara being used as he is lends itself to a long career of effective play.
 
#836
#836
Grand Vol said:
You're an idiot if you pay any attention to D4H.
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It's been a tough go around here football wise so making fun of the forum troll can be an amusing diversion. Then there's the actual benefit of how discrediting the guy can be a learning experience. As an example he is forever trying to say how inept the pros are at assessing talent* and I was shocked to see just how good they actually are at their craft. Pro Bowls and the HOF are massively overrepresented by the first 2 rounds. Moreso than I even thought before looking.

*That guy clings to outliers like a barnacle.
 
#838
#838
hndog609 said:
While it's true Fournette missed 3 games outright (might have had a shot at the rushing title if stayed healthy) he averaged close to 20 carries per game when he played. He did very little true "splitting carries" like Kamara. This doesn't change the accuracy in your observation that being expected to carry the load like Fournette (#4 in att per game) vs being the change-of-pace guy (#55 apg) like Kamara are two different animals.

Now having said the above Kamara is extremely effective out of the backfield in the passing game. Even though Alvin was over 300y behind Fournette in rushing he was over 200y ahead in yards from scrimmage.

Also barring bad luck Kamara being used as he is lends itself to a long career of effective play.
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We shall see .. adjustments are made and things like that. Holding the current pace for a 10+ year career is a lot to ask of a guy. Heck, in his last four games this year, the Miami game was ok and the rest weren't even average.
Talented, yes .. but his current status is being helped by having a guy like Ingram being productive as well.
 
#839
#839
hndog609 said:
It's been a tough go around here football wise so making fun of the forum troll can be an amusing diversion. Then there's the actual benefit of how discrediting the guy can be a learning experience. As an example he is forever trying to say how inept the pros are at assessing talent* and I was shocked to see just how good they actually are at their craft. Pro Bowls and the HOF are massively overrepresented by the first 2 rounds. Moreso than I even thought before looking.

*That guy clings to outliers like a barnacle.
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The only thing beneficial to reading D4H's posts is to lower your IQ to a level of a common housefly.
 
#840
#840
Grand Vol said:
The only thing beneficial to reading D4H's posts is to lower your IQ to a level of a common housefly.
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LOL! Anyone taking the guy seriously I certainly agree. Trolling the house troll? I maintain that can be at least amusing and can lead to learning stuff if one follows up on things.

For real, did you know 57% of this years Pro Bowl starters are 1st rounders? Think about the math of that...1st round vs the rest of the field and it's nearly 60%. Add 2nd round and it's up to 74%. I think most people assume there's a correlation with high draft-good players but if not for me fact checking his royal doofness I'd have not known it was that profound.
 
#841
#841
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
We'll see who does better in the NFL.

As I say with all these debates about college players, I'll let the NFL expose who was better than who.

For example, I was consistent last year in saying Alvin was a better RB than Fournette or Cook. People didn't wanna believe that. They called me crazy. One season into their NFL careers and Alvin has proven to be better. I let the NFL decide these debates.
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If you're talking about who is better in college, why bring up the NFL? Tom Brady's NFL career is miles ahead of Tim Tebow's, but I doubt you'll find anyone that will say Brady had a better college career than Tebow. There really is no debate that both Chubb and Sony were better and more effective in college than Kamara.
 
#842
#842
Atlanta917 said:
If you're talking about who is better in college, why bring up the NFL? Tom Brady's NFL career is miles ahead of Tim Tebow's, but I doubt you'll find anyone that will say Brady had a better college career than Tebow. There really is no debate that both Chubb and Sony were better and more effective in college than Kamara.
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"Better" is extremely subjective.

Better utilized, absolutely. Talent wise, I'm pretty sure they are on par with each other.
 
#843
#843
Grand Vol said:
"Better" is extremely subjective.

Better utilized, absolutely. Talent wise, I'm pretty sure they are on par with each other.
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This. Kamara had 210 carries in his whole career at UT. Taking his injury season out of the equation Chubb averaged over 200 carries for 3 seasons. Michel averaged over 170 carries a season since his Fr year.
 
#844
#844
TDawg said:
You do realize right that Fournette split carries and got about 50% of J-villes carries this year and still got over 1000 yards to go along with over 30 receptions? I guarantee you that the Jacksonville front office isn't looking at the Fournette pick going "man, we could have had Alvin Kamara instead of this guy" .. in fact, they are probably saying "glad we picked up an every down bell cow, plug and play, give em the rock big back."

Alvin had a higher YPC but in limited carries that doesn't usually translate out to what will have had he been given a feature back load. He had more receptions and receiving yards but that isn't what a feature back does.

As for Cook, he was having a damn fine year at almost 5 YPC prior to his injury .. as a feature back. When Alvin is given a feature back load and still ripping 5 or 6 YPC, then I will agree, he was the better back. But right now, he is still second on his own team as a RB.

I can't get into the "next Marshall Faulk" thing when his coach says it because he plays him like he's the next Kevin Faulk instead. Look at Warrick Dunn's stats and his career. If AK's career plays out that way, he will have had a great career but he isn't even getting enough carries to warrant that.
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Alvin Kamara just set the NFL record for yards per touch by a RB (7.7 Yards Per Touch) on a minimum of 200 touches. He joined Gale Sayers as the only rookie in NFL history with 5 rushing TDs, 5 receiving TDs, and 1 kick return TD.

Stop with these games of trying to argue that Fournette and Cook are anywhere close to him. Alvin as a rookie has placed himself alongside Hall of Famers. Fournette on the other hand averaged a meager 3.9 YPC and Cook tore his ACL a few weeks into the season.

It's silly to even debate this anymore.
 
#845
#845
Atlanta917 said:
If you're talking about who is better in college, why bring up the NFL? Tom Brady's NFL career is miles ahead of Tim Tebow's, but I doubt you'll find anyone that will say Brady had a better college career than Tebow. There really is no debate that both Chubb and Sony were better and more effective in college than Kamara.
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Brady may not have had a better college career but he was the better player. Tebow just benefitted from having elite talent around him.

I say the NFL decides these debates because there isn't a huge talent gap between teams in the NFL like there is in college. Thus it's unlikely a total scrub like Tebow can be made to look artificially good in the NFL like he was in college because he had superior talent around him.
 
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#847
#847
GAVol said:
Mind numbingly wrong.

Michigan was loaded while Brady was there.
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Not to mention, Tebow took an NFL team that WAS NOT loaded and started 1-3 to the playoffs and beat the vaunted Steelers that year.
 
#848
#848
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Alvin Kamara just set the NFL record for yards per touch by a RB (7.7 Yards Per Touch) on a minimum of 200 touches. He joined Gale Sayers as the only rookie in NFL history with 5 rushing TDs, 5 receiving TDs, and 1 kick return TD.

Stop with these games of trying to argue that Fournette and Cook are anywhere close to him. Alvin as a rookie has placed himself alongside Hall of Famers. Fournette on the other hand averaged a meager 3.9 YPC and Cook tore his ACL a few weeks into the season.

It's silly to even debate this anymore.
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Yet you do .. Kamara's season hinged on being able to take a backseat to .. MARK INGRAM! Think about that one for a second. Fournette and Cook would take a backseat to no one. The Vikings let Adrian Peterson go after bringing Cook in. The Saints didn't make AK an every down back over Ingram all year and maybe, JUST MAYBE, the last few games are a sign of teams figuring them out.

ONE SEASON DOTH NOT MAKE A CAREER AND YOU HAVEN'T FIGURED THAT OUT YET!
 
#849
#849
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Brady may not have had a better college career but he was the better player. Tebow just benefitted from having elite talent around him.

I say the NFL decides these debates because there isn't a huge talent gap between teams in the NFL like there is in college. Thus it's unlikely a total scrub like Tebow can be made to look artificially good in the NFL like he was in college because he had superior talent around him.
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You don't get to dismiss Tebow's college career by saying he's a product of a system and not say the same about Brady's career at New England. Once again, your lack of football knowledge is showing tremendously.
 
#850
#850
Atlanta917 said:
If you're talking about who is better in college, why bring up the NFL? Tom Brady's NFL career is miles ahead of Tim Tebow's, but I doubt you'll find anyone that will say Brady had a better college career than Tebow. There really is no debate that both Chubb and Sony were better and more effective in college than Kamara.
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I've noticed that D4H has some kind of fixation on this, like the NFL "reveals" who truly was a good college player.

Johnny Manziel was also a flameout in the NFL. That means he sucked in college, right?

Alvin Kamara is having a great year this year because he went to a team that is using him correctly, has a great QB, and great offensive coaching/playcalling. If he was in Detroit, and being used extensively, you'd think he sucked.
 
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