120k a year isn’t enough

[Vol8188]

What about countries such as Germany, where the culture is highly collaborative and management expects and respects input from a committee comprised of workers?

If Germany were a state it would be 49th, between Idaho and WV in terms of per capita GDP. The left likes to prop up Europe as some lovely utopia and it’s an absurdity.

We shouldn’t redesign our business culture to be less productive

 

[lawgator1]

I've seena number of news reports that one reason people are reluctant work traditional jobs at traditional wages is that they are opening up their own home businesses. Enough commuting and making others rich. I think there is some truth in those reports

 

[Vol8188]

I've seena number of news reports that one reason people are reluctant work traditional jobs at traditional wages is that they are opening up their own home businesses. Enough commuting and making others rich. I think there is some truth in those reports

If that’s the case, great. But if that were the case (that the wage increases were driven by a surge in business ownership) it would be reflected in GDP growth. Yet we’ve seen very little growth compared to a year of lockdowns

 

[RavinDave]

That would be me McDad...I am exhausted from work. Feel like a car with 200K miles on it...Leaks, creaky noises, malfunctioning computer, several knobs missing, and lack of acceleration..yet still in a race.

Birds of a feather we are.

 

[RavinDave]

I worked a 90+ hr week one time I think in my life. This was as an engineer, not young slave labor. Once. My brain was misfiring at the end of it and we collectively told the test managers F off and fire us if they like but we are taking a damn break. I’ve worked multiple 70-80 hrs weeks back to back which sucks ( edit: but I’ll never do it again). But break that 80 hour barrier and your brain turns to mush quick

I remember a couple turnarounds working 12 hour shifts for 2- 3 weeks in a petrochemical plant. Being a junior engineer (this was in the late 70s) naturally I got the night shift. Graveyards. I can definitely relate to your brain mush metaphor.

 

[85SugarVol]

Germany is a unicorn in that respect. They take much more pride in their trades over there.

Yep, they treat trades like a person with a college degree.

As we should. If I tried to do what a decent carpenter does, I'd have no fingers left.

The Dutch do something similar. I went to high school in Holland and they have 2 tracks: essentially technical and classical.

They get sorted early, at like 10 or 11 based on a combination of aptitude, results, and preference. I think one is Gymnasium and the other like Lyceum.

 

[RavinDave]

Are there any Engineers in any field who still enjoy the work after 3 or 4 decades?

I’d say the percentage is higher among those who work for themselves.

 

[85SugarVol]

If Germany were a state it would be 49th, between Idaho and WV in terms of per capita GDP. The left likes to prop up Europe as some lovely utopia and it’s an absurdity.

We shouldn’t redesign our business culture to be less productive

I think that’s Britain, actually. Point stands though.

 

[Vol8188]

I think that’s Britain, actually. Point stands though.

They would be dead last. The UK would be the poorest of the 52 states if you included them and Germany.

 

[85SugarVol]

They would be dead last. The UK would be the poorest of the 52 states if you included them and Germany.

Ok

I had seen another ranking somewhere that had the UK #49 right above Mississippi

 

[Vol8188]

Ok

I had seen another ranking somewhere that had the UK #49 right above Mississippi

Any source you us for the UK will have their 2019 per capita GDP between 39k-41k US. The lowest states are around 44-45k.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I worked a 90+ hr week one time I think in my life. This was as an engineer, not young slave labor. Once. My brain was misfiring at the end of it and we collectively told the test managers F off and fire us if they like but we are taking a damn break. I’ve worked multiple 70-80 hrs weeks back to back which sucks ( edit: but I’ll never do it again). But break that 80 hour barrier and your brain turns to mush quick

Wow... once? I did that at least 3 times a year for 10-12 years.

 

[DonjoVol]

I've seena number of news reports that one reason people are reluctant work traditional jobs at traditional wages is that they are opening up their own home businesses. Enough commuting and making others rich. I think there is some truth in those reports

I personally know one person who worked fast food for several years. Quit a few years ago to work for one of the food delivery services. Her salary doubled or more.

Another person I know was a server. Got a work from home job doing customer service for a major bank. Once again, salary doubled or more.

When a person is working in an industry and underpaid you can't fault them for finding better opportunities.

 

[C-south]

The Dutch do something similar. I went to high school in Holland and they have 2 tracks: essentially technical and classical.

They get sorted early, at like 10 or 11 based on a combination of aptitude, results, and preference. I think one is Gymnasium and the other like Lyceum.

We would need more “tracks”. Some people here aren’t or shouldn’t be employable.

 

[DonjoVol]

The Dutch do something similar. I went to high school in Holland and they have 2 tracks: essentially technical and classical.

They get sorted early, at like 10 or 11 based on a combination of aptitude, results, and preference. I think one is Gymnasium and the other like Lyceum.

Then what determines who gets to be the entrepreneurs of the society?

Some people might disagree with me but I think the education system has focused more on students going on to college. When there are multiple other paths they can take.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Wow... once? I did that at least 3 times a year for 10-12 years.

You poor dumb bastard. On flight test 12 hr days 6 days a week are the norm with some days longer. So 70-80 is routine. But that 90+ almost killed me and I was in my mid 30’s.

 

[NCFisher]

That would be me McDad...I am exhausted from work. Feel like a car with 200K miles on it...Leaks, creaky noises, malfunctioning computer, several knobs missing, and lack of acceleration..yet still in a race.

We'll call you Frosted Flake.

 

[Vol423]

I personally know one person who worked fast food for several years. Quit a few years ago to work for one of the food delivery services. Her salary doubled or more.

Another person I know was a server. Got a work from home job doing customer service for a major bank. Once again, salary doubled or more.

When a person is working in an industry and underpaid you can't fault them for finding better opportunities.

Let's see how your delivery service friend enjoys that job when he/she realizes that he's going to burn through a car at lightning speed. He's going to be paying MUCH more for gas, particularly under the Biden regime of "transitory inflation". He's also going to spend more on vehicle maintenance. He thinks he's doubled his pay, and he has, but he's not considering the much higher expenses that he has as well. He should be socking away a lot of those earnings in a sinking fund to pay for the upcoming new car. In addition, if he's a self-employed individual now (and I'm pretty sure delivery service people are), then he has to pay not only income tax and his employee portion of FICA taxes, but also the employer matching portion of FICA on his annual tax return. None of those things were issues with the fast food job. Those delivery service jobs aren't long-term careers, but people don't think through all the ramifications of their choices.

 

[NCFisher]

64.6 hours a week. That’s probably below average for me for any job I’ve had since high school. I’m really not impressed.

And yes it’s easy to argue against better pay and benefits. Here’s an easy agruement against it, have the Union start their own company. The Union has all the resources they would need. If the Union believes current ownership is taking too much profit, then the margins should be fat enough for the Union to increase wages and benefits and still turn a sizable profit at the end of the day.

Their unwillingness to do so is itself an argument against higher wages. It indicates the margins aren’t there and therefor the money for raises and benefits is not there

Exactly; 120K is assuming hours over 40 are 1.5 rate and that no double-time is paid for Sat or Sundays. 64 hours/7 days = 9.14 hours/day.
Aside from benefits package.

 

[Vol423]

With the proliferation of delivery service jobs these days, I'm assuming that insurance companies would be charging significantly higher car insurance premiums to people in these jobs, as they would be driving considerably more miles than your average driver and would, therefore, be far more likely to be involved in accidents.

 

[DonjoVol]

Let's see how your delivery service friend enjoys that job when he/she realizes that he's going to burn through a car at lightning speed. He's going to be paying MUCH more for gas, particularly under the Biden regime of "transitory inflation". He's also going to spend more on vehicle maintenance. He thinks he's doubled his pay, and he has, but he's not considering the much higher expenses that he has as well. He should be socking away a lot of those earnings in a sinking fund to pay for the upcoming new car. In addition, if he's a self-employed individual now (and I'm pretty sure delivery service people are), then he has to pay not only income tax and his employee portion of FICA taxes, but also the employer matching portion of FICA on his annual tax return. None of those things were issues with the fast food job. Those delivery service jobs aren't long-term careers, but people don't think through all the ramifications of their choices.

First of all my friend is a she not a he. Second. You can't blame someone for taking that opportunity when they weren't given appropriate pay raises for working somewhere for over a decade. Even with the gas and maintenance she was doing much better financially and was much happier.

 

[DonjoVol]

Let's see how your delivery service friend enjoys that job when he/she realizes that he's going to burn through a car at lightning speed. He's going to be paying MUCH more for gas, particularly under the Biden regime of "transitory inflation". He's also going to spend more on vehicle maintenance. He thinks he's doubled his pay, and he has, but he's not considering the much higher expenses that he has as well. He should be socking away a lot of those earnings in a sinking fund to pay for the upcoming new car. In addition, if he's a self-employed individual now (and I'm pretty sure delivery service people are), then he has to pay not only income tax and his employee portion of FICA taxes, but also the employer matching portion of FICA on his annual tax return. None of those things were issues with the fast food job. Those delivery service jobs aren't long-term careers, but people don't think through all the ramifications of their choices.

I did notice that you completely ignored my friend who went from being a server to doing customer service for a major bank.

This is part of what happened with the restaurant industry. People leave to find better paying opportunities. Not necessarily better jobs or even jobs they enjoy more. If they didn't want good employees to leave then they should have paid them more.

I actually saw where a restaurant here in Knoxville was paying $16 an hour just for team members. I've seen where some shift manager jobs with a few restaurants are now paying up to $18 an hour. That's good pay for that industry. Assistant manager pay has also gone up. All good signs and might even entice those good employees that left to come back into the industry.

 

[DonjoVol]

You poor dumb bastard. On flight test 12 hr days 6 days a week are the norm with some days longer. So 70-80 is routine. But that 90+ almost killed me and I was in my mid 30’s.

And with only 168 hours in a week that's over half the week spent at work. Even 70 to 80 hours is a lot. Especially for someone who has a family.

 

[volfanhill]

And with only 168 hours in a week that's over half the week spent at work. Even 70 to 80 hours is a lot. Especially for someone who has a family.

People leave their house for work at 7 and get home at 9 and call it a 14 hour work day. It's nonsense.

 

[DynaLo]

The Dutch do something similar. I went to high school in Holland and they have 2 tracks: essentially technical and classical.

They get sorted early, at like 10 or 11 based on a combination of aptitude, results, and preference. I think one is Gymnasium and the other like Lyceum.

France was sorting students pre WWII based on testing given at around 16 years old. You either tested high enough for University or you were headed for menial labor or a trade.