'13 TN OL Austin Sanders (UT signee)

[goldenvol]

My perception, and I think that of many ( or at least others), is not the second-guessing or even the direct criticism. It's a combination of a few things...the ugly and sarcastic tones in the comments, the outright statements that this coach or that coach needs to be gone, and the claims that every mistake is on the coaches since they are responsible for coaching these kids up. Some of us feel that it is safe to assume the coaches see many of the same things as the "experts" here do and are teaching the young men what they should be doing. When the players fail to do as they've been taught, well, some of the responsibility falls on them as well.

I read on a thread in the FF yesterday where one poster stated there is only one coach on the entire staff that is SEC-caliber. That is nothing short of spewed BS...the staff has done wonders with A.J., the defense as a whole, with a number of the kicking specialists, they've been instrumental in Worley's development, etc. ...for someone to make such a claim and purport themselves to "know football" is ridiculous. Another poster was critical of player development and when examples of improvement by specific players was brought forward, the poster said those kids are ballers on their own right and the staff shouldn't get credit for their talents. It's these sorts of claims or comments that rub many folks here wrong.

The ironic thing is 98% of VN are pulling for the same results...we just can't seem to communicate it effectively to each other.

Of course, this is JMO...

A lot of what you say in here I totally agree with. I never said I wanted any coaches fired or that they weren't SEC level coaches. If we fire a coach then that would set us back twice as much as our current situation.

My argument was always that our current offensive coaches have to figure out how to take what we have as bad as they are and put them in situations to succeed. If our current 5 lineman are consistently making the same mistakes, then see what the next man can do. Now I've also went on the record as saying I'm not at practice and don't know how these kids preform. They may not be able to get it done. I don't know.
I've also said that I know we're in a bad place with our situation, but so are other schools. Minus say a Bama. Look at Georgia's attrition in the secondary at the first of the year. Florida is a frigging train wreck on offense right now. If I promised before the game that we would hold Florida to 10 points you would bet everything you have that we win that game. Look at USCEast troubles this year. Missouri lost to Indiana.

So, in summation we have to be able to teach the players we have how to minimize mistakes, perform their assignments, and coaches adapt our game plan when things don't go our way.

 

[jave36]

Why is it people feel the need to lambaste our coaches who have not even had 2 full seasons in their jobs. Are you getting paid millions to coach football? No, I guess they are better than you then, sorry bro.

Coaches coach, players execute, coaches take the blame.

I don't thing Franklin or Muschamp out coached Butch, they simply had better pieces to work with.

Vandy did not have better pieces to work with. That's absurd. We had 12 players on that team who got signed or will get signed to an NFL team, they had maybe 2 or 3.

 

[OldVol49vfl]

Dude, I tried to drop it. You butt hurt jokers keep throwing jabs at me. I get you think that our coaching staff are all geniuses and do no wrong. I get that you believe our players are crap and can't perform our coaches perfect system. And your being silly trying to take what I said as if I donated millions. Your argument is so weak.

I do spend my hard earned money on season tickets every year, so I would like to think the coaches have to be responsible for their growth of the team.

I never said I was perfect, but I am responsible for my mistakes and my expectation is to not repeat them.

Why should the coaches not be expected to correct mistakes and find ways not to repeat them. The lineman we're playing are constantly making the same mistakes. If you don't believe me, then go watch the offensive play break down that Freak put together for every game this year.

To begin with I'm not a Dude. The coaches at UT are there because they are coaches not experts like you. No one had claimed they are geniuses or that the players are crap. We do have some O-Linemen that have a way to go to be top-notch. From what you claimed earlier you led most of us to believe that you were perfect and couldn't make a mistake. It is my belief that the offensive coaches are doing everything they can to build the offense into a winning unit.
If you are as big a Franklin fan as you seem to be, he's at Penn State now. Just saying.

 

[goldenvol]

Peoples are giving you a hard time because you are comparing apples to bananas screaming that bananas are "apples of paradise" thus the same.

Yes, the coaches like you on a job must be held responsible, but I have a question for you. If most of your crew were all first timers and had no clue what they were doing, would you be running some well oiled machine the first time you went to work? Would it not take your men experience on the job to become adequate?

That is how flawed your logic is. The coaches aren't infallible or undeserving of some criticism, but you and a couple other posters are making yourselves look like grade-A idiots.

Your scenario isn't plausible. I would never allow myself to be in a position to have all new employees on a project. I have had new products started up for the first time and had to micro manage the crap out of the situation to make sure that all operating procedures were followed until the proper habits were formed. You work many long hours until those habits form, but that's the job.

Now what isn't apples to apples is that it's tons easier for me to remove people and bring in new one's if someone doesn't work out. Butch Jones can only do that so many times before he runs out of people and can't bring in new one's everday.

So what makes me an idiot about expecting the coaches to teach his players to where they don't repeat the same mistakes over and over. He did recruit some of these kids and all but a handful were recruited by big time programs.

 

[jave36]

.

 

[VolsDoc81TX]

OK. But the current staff knew this when they arrived and still chose to sign two classes that were still lacking on the O-line. the best lineman they had committed they ended up screwing up by not taking a risk on signing and guess what? He qualified and is on the roster for Oklahoma. So, with 32 signees, they signed quite a large number of guys who are bouncing positions and likely will never contribute. Kendrick, Sanders and Weisman in one class, none of which are contributing. Blair is a bust at the greatest position of need on the team. And we've got slot receivers knee deep over there. Priorities? I've heard this stupid answer that UT was focused on getting faster with this class. When you sign 32 you ought to address more than speed. That is more than 1/3 your entire roster. He has signed more than 50% of the current roster and the O-line sucks and doesn't have much if anything in reserve. And I wouldn't say this class of O-linemen is exactly game changing.

Ever think Zeus making it in at oklahoma had to do with lower standards at oklahoma?
Was late in the game when Zeus' grade issues were known.
Still think my point of view has more merit.

 

[goldenvol]

I concede. Everyone else is right and I'm wrong. Go ahead and respond to my silly posts and I promise to let you have the last word.

 

[VolsDoc81TX]

I've tried to let it go. I'm sorry guys. It's obviously too hard for coaches to do their jobs due to the lack of talent. Ive changed my position. Let's just forfeit the rest of the next two maybe three seasons, because their is no possible way for this staff to make the players we have any better.

God forbid fans expect millions of dollars in coaches salaries paid yearly should result in being able to take a bad situation and make it better.

Im really glad you will never be my doctor, because it sounds like if you hit a roadblock in a diagnosis that you would throw up your hands and say it's just too hard to figure out.

I don't know how everybody else's jobs work, but I'm paid to lead my crew, make my operation more efficient, and fix problems when they arise. If I was to go to my boss and say my crew isn't capable of meeting customer demand how do you think that would go down? I would be replaced really quickly with someone who could figure out to take the existing situation and make it work.

I'm sorry I expect to much from our coaches. I guess we shouldn't have beat Florida. I guess we really over achieved and I'm to blind to see it. Dave Hart should have given extensions and raises to all the coaches Saturday night due to "trying like heck" to win.

I never hit any roadblock. I see several issues with the OL.
Not giving up on UT, the Vols or this coaching staff.

I could not be your doctor... I am not a Gynecologist

 

[jave36]

I concede. Everyone else is right and I'm wrong. Go ahead and respond to my silly posts and I promise to let you have the last word.

Lol its not fun being in the minority on here. Some people get too emotional about discussing football and just can't keep themselves from getting personal with people with whom they disagree. You'll be happy you stopped dragging it out.

I don't agree with you completely, but I think your points are all valid and worth civil discussion, but you won't find that on here for more than about 7 posts.

 

[MockingVol]

Your scenario isn't plausible. I would never allow myself to be in a position to have all new employees on a project. I have had new products started up for the first time and had to micro manage the crap out of the situation to make sure that all operating procedures were followed until the proper habits were formed. You work many long hours until those habits form, but that's the job.

Now what isn't apples to apples is that it's tons easier for me to remove people and bring in new one's if someone doesn't work out. Butch Jones can only do that so many times before he runs out of people and can't bring in new one's everday.

So what makes me an idiot about expecting the coaches to teach his players to where they don't repeat the same mistakes over and over. He did recruit some of these kids and all but a handful were recruited by big time programs.

Then were are these experienced SEC-level linemen going to come from? Butch cannot just hire experienced linemen, they must be developed. Ideally a linemen isn't playing until his third season, and in case you have not seen it stated a thousand times before hand, Dooley did a terrible job recruiting linemen.

Also if you micro-manage your underlings then you have already shown that you have no business managing. Successful leaders macro-manage; there is no occupation where micro-managing is encouraged or effective.

But I digress, your response to mine seems to support moreso what I'm arguing then what you have been spouting on about. These guys are only a few games in playing together and are playing out of position due to need. What can we possibly do other than continue to develop our players??

 

[VolsDoc81TX]

Wow! I believe if you'll go politely to the UT administration and ask in a nice way they'll return your millions that you've donated for coaches salaries so you won't have a reason to come on VN and cry about your loss. We are all aware that you mold your employees into spectacular working machines that overwhelm your customers (and your boss) with their production.
I really hope that you never end up in the ER in VolsDoc's hospital and he finds out who you are. Then you'd get to see him throw his hands up in the air!
Please Let It Go!

Naw, I am a humanitarian, i would help him along in his journey

Had to be aaid :salute:

 

[jjay2518]

Lol its not fun being in the minority on here. Some people get too emotional about discussing football and just can't keep themselves from getting personal with people with whom they disagree. You'll be happy you stopped dragging it out.

I don't agree with you completely, but I think your points are all valid and worth civil discussion, but you won't find that on here for more than about 7 posts.

Definitely true. I carried water for the last coach for too long, and I'm not going to do it again. Our OL is bad, but the coaches still made mistakes in the FL game that very likely changed the outcome. People don't like to acknowledge that there's a grey area between complete unquestioning support of the staff and wanting to ride them out of town before the next game. Not everything is black or white.

 

[Billy Antrim]

I concede. Everyone else is right and I'm wrong. Go ahead and respond to my silly posts and I promise to let you have the last word.

Hang in there. I appreciate the effort you have made in giving us your point of view. It's too bad we can't have healthy debate in this thread without childish name-calling.

 

[tn4elvis]

My only problem with this staff is situational game management.The calling of plays starting with the Ga.game is not good.We are backed up at the 1 yard line and you put your qb under center for the first time all year.No wonder the timing was off between Worley and Hurd.Second time we have the ball at our 30 with a 9 point lead against UF.Our punter is averaging 45 yards a kick.Why take a deep drop and try to throw it.Result sack fumble Uf scores a few plays later.Add to that last blunder that our defense is playing lights out.Jake cant do any thing about Worleys ints or some of the sacks but he can damn.sure manage our offense alot better.You have too play call with a sense of what's going on in the game,how much time left,how's the D playing,I'd my punter having a good game ect.I think Jake is a good qb coach but so far Iam not real impressed with his game management.Hopefully he improves the more experience he gets calling plays on the big stage in the sec.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Some posters on here think the #34 G (Kyrbeson) the country is elite though. I'm sorry but elite is top 5 maybe 7 depending on the quality of the class. Why do some people not trust the coach? He has been in coaching how long? He has see How many OL play? Obviously the best are playing and there is a reason a walk on Gilliam and Freshmen past them on the depth chart OBVIOUSLY...

Stop misrepresenting him as the #34 OG. That may be what he was intending to play here, it's not what he was evaluated as by the scouting services or what he's playing now. He was a top 30 OT in HS.

 

[RockyTop1384]

Kerbyson wasnt elite but was a solid tackle coming out of high school. He has bounced between guard & tackle at UT primarily b/c tackle spots were locked down by JJ & Tiny.

Kerby played primarily RT in HS if im not mistaken. I wish they would have left him there this year and found another solution at LT, b/c Kerby belongs on the right side of the line IMO.

 

[Nashvegas31]

Funny how we were talking about this guy and Mahoney mentions him and Kendrick as two guys pushing for time the last few wks. He pointed out Kendrick more but made it a point to include Sanders as one starting to get it a little bit

 

[3rdDown4What?]

Stop misrepresenting him as the #34 OG. That may be what he was intending to play here, it's not what he was evaluated as by the scouting services or what he's playing now. He was a top 30 OT in HS.

#34 T then but u seem to think he should be a world beater and our coaches must be not coaching him up. He is playing exactly like he should but being he there was 33 players supposedly Better than him at that position

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

#34 T then but u seem to think he should be a world beater and our coaches must be not coaching him up. He is playing exactly like he should but being he there was 33 players supposedly Better than him at that position

So is he playing like the 34 best OT in the country? I don't expect him to be a world beater as much as you expect him to blow and serve as a testament of Dooley's recruiting despite him holding offers from UF, Bama, ND, Stanford, USC etc.

 

[WebbCobb]

How old were the sullins twins 22 23.Makes a difference not so much from the strength but the mental side.He did do a good job figuring Crompton out though.

I think Sam Wyche worked with Crompton before his last year so let's not go overboard praising Kiffin. That last part should be board policy

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

I think Sam Wyche worked with Crompton before his last year so let's not go overboard praising Kiffin. That last part should be board policy

Crompton blew until the UGA game when Kiffin introduced the rollout.

 

[thetennlegend]

I swear I just open this thread to see if Austins dad commented.

 

[3rdDown4What?]

So is he playing like the 34 best OT in the country? I don't expect him to be a world beater as much as you expect him to blow and serve as a testament of Dooley's recruiting despite him holding offers from UF, Bama, ND, Stanford, USC etc.

No I'm saying at this point due to his lack of coaching by the former staff, lack of condition by that staff, and due to playing out of position, you can't really expect to much more from the kid and you can't put it on this coaching staff as of yet.

 

[Vol464]

Here is the way I see it. At this point, I believe it is still too early to say if any of the coaches can’t cut it. This time last year, many weren’t “sold on Jancek”. This year, he’s doing a lot better job. Oh yeah, he has better talent and speed. Funny how that makes a difference.
I don’t believe there is an issue with questioning a certain call at a certain point in the game. There is no doubt that it is easy to see in hindsight that a play wasn’t a good call, because it didn’t work. I think most on here would agree that Chaney is a good offensive coordinator, yet I thought he made some really head scratching calls sometimes. Same with John Chavis. He is a great d-coordinator, yet there is a well-known term on VN “third and Chavis”. The fact is, every coordinator makes bad calls almost every game. Sometimes your talent is good enough and the team you’re playing isn’t; then it doesn’t matter what you call, because the players execute against inferior talent.
At this point, we don’t have much margin for error on the O-line. Whose fault is that? A large portion falls on Dooley. Some maybe on the current coaches, maybe not. I don’t know the answer. But until the line is better, guaranteed there is going to be a lot of bad plays called because the o-line is getting beat. I am not knocking the o-line either, they have been thrown into the fire and are giving their all. Trial by fire is usually not fun.
I think the issue is NOT that nobody should question the calls or the coaches. It is this: when I read some of these posts, it comes across as “this coach doesn’t know what he is doing; if I was calling the plays, we would have won.” I hope that isn’t what is intended, but that is how it comes across. I am going to guess that in most cases, the coordinator has about 10 seconds to decide what play to call (barring time out, injury, penalty, etc.) Now hopefully, most of us don’t really think we could do a better job than the coaches. I know I couldn’t. I do question what they do sometimes. However, sometimes the players just don’t execute. We are still playing a bunch of freshman, more than any team in the country. The margin of error is very thin.
I guess what I am saying here is I don’t have a problem with questioning calls or even the coaches. Maybe the way it is done is the issue. Some posters sure seem like they have an axe to grind. They don’t like a certain coaches; or they post the same thing over and over about a certain coach or player. Kind of like with AJ; last year there were lots of posts about AJ not doing this or not being good at that; all of a sudden, AJ has 2 years with the same coaches and better talent around, and suddenly he is a LOT better.
This program was a dumpster fire by the time the previous coach was discharged. It is going to take 3-4 years minimum to get it really cleaned up.
Just my 2 cents. :twocents:

 

[joelkthx]

Here is the way I see it. At this point, I believe it is still too early to say if any of the coaches can’t cut it. This time last year, many weren’t “sold on Jancek”. This year, he’s doing a lot better job. Oh yeah, he has better talent and speed. Funny how that makes a difference.
I don’t believe there is an issue with questioning a certain call at a certain point in the game. There is no doubt that it is easy to see in hindsight that a play wasn’t a good call, because it didn’t work. I think most on here would agree that Chaney is a good offensive coordinator, yet I thought he made some really head scratching calls sometimes. Same with John Chavis. He is a great d-coordinator, yet there is a well-known term on VN “third and Chavis”. The fact is, every coordinator makes bad calls almost every game. Sometimes your talent is good enough and the team you’re playing isn’t; then it doesn’t matter what you call, because the players execute against inferior talent.
At this point, we don’t have much margin for error on the O-line. Whose fault is that? A large portion falls on Dooley. Some maybe on the current coaches, maybe not. I don’t know the answer. But until the line is better, guaranteed there is going to be a lot of bad plays called because the o-line is getting beat. I am not knocking the o-line either, they have been thrown into the fire and are giving their all. Trial by fire is usually not fun.
I think the issue is NOT that nobody should question the calls or the coaches. It is this: when I read some of these posts, it comes across as “this coach doesn’t know what he is doing; if I was calling the plays, we would have won.” I hope that isn’t what is intended, but that is how it comes across. I am going to guess that in most cases, the coordinator has about 10 seconds to decide what play to call (barring time out, injury, penalty, etc.) Now hopefully, most of us don’t really think we could do a better job than the coaches. I know I couldn’t. I do question what they do sometimes. However, sometimes the players just don’t execute. We are still playing a bunch of freshman, more than any team in the country. The margin of error is very thin.
I guess what I am saying here is I don’t have a problem with questioning calls or even the coaches. Maybe the way it is done is the issue. Some posters sure seem like they have an axe to grind. They don’t like a certain coaches; or they post the same thing over and over about a certain coach or player. Kind of like with AJ; last year there were lots of posts about AJ not doing this or not being good at that; all of a sudden, AJ has 2 years with the same coaches and better talent around, and suddenly he is a LOT better.
This program was a dumpster fire by the time the previous coach was discharged. It is going to take 3-4 years minimum to get it really cleaned up.
Just my 2 cents. :twocents:

too long, did not read :shades: