'14 FL WR Isaiah McKenzie

#201
#201
StoVol said:
Wuerful had better numbers than Peyton, so did Ty detmer
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QB to WR = Apples to Oranges.

Way less intangibles involved in the WR position.

WR is supposed to:
1) Get open.
2) Catch the ball.
3) Run with the ball.
4) Block
5) Come up big in the clutch.

Statistics measure 3/5 of those and Reed was good in the clutch.

Now. You find somebody who has time to list all the things QBs have to do and I'll tell you which ones completions and yards don't begin to cover.

wU-Tang Vol said:
Numbers wise he definitely was
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He also only played 2 seasons at WR. His FR year he was a RB for at least part of the season and only had 100 something yards.

When you say "talent," you're talking about guys being 6'3" and running a 4.2. That's just interjecting preference for bigger WRs into a discussion about how WRs don't necessarily have to be big to be a great WR.
 
#202
#202
RockyTop85 said:
QB to WR = Apples to Oranges.

Way less intangibles involved in the WR position.

WR is supposed to:
1) Get open.
2) Catch the ball.
3) Run with the ball.
4) Block
5) Come up big in the clutch.

Statistics measure 3/5 of those and Reed was good in the clutch.

Now. You find somebody who has time to list all the things QBs have to do and I'll tell you which ones completions and yards don't begin to cover.




He also only played 2 seasons at WR. His FR year he was a RB for at least part of the season and only had 100 something yards.

When you say "talent," you're talking about guys being 6'3" and running a 4.2. That's just interjecting preference for bigger WRs into a discussion about how WRs don't necessarily have to be big to be a great WR.
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No it's applicable... Applicable as hell. The best numbers don't always equate to the best athletes. We're all aware of what receivers are required to do.
 
#203
#203
StoVol said:
No it's applicable... Applicable as hell. The best numbers don't always equate to the best athletes. We're all aware of what receivers are required to do.
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The best/most gifted athletes don't always make the best football players, that's the whole point of my original post. Ask the Raiders.
 
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#204
#204
RockyTop85 said:
The best/most gifted athletes don't always make the best football players, that's the whole point of my original post. Ask the Raiders.
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You brought up the big/small point. I did not. You inferred that I was thinking along those lines. It's ok with me if you think he's a top wr. I hope it's ok with you that he's not top ten to me.
 
#205
#205
StoVol said:
You brought up the big/small point. I did not. You inferred that I was thinking along those lines. It's ok with me if you think he's a top wr. I hope it's ok with you that he's not top ten to me.
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I didn't bring up the big/small point. That conversation has been going on for like 150 posts now.
 
#206
#206
RockyTop85 said:
I didn't bring up the big/small point. That conversation has been going on for like 150 posts now.
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You brought it up to me when it had nothing to do with the point I was addressing, hence the irrelevance
 
#207
#207
StoVol said:
You brought it up to me when it had nothing to do with the point I was addressing, hence the irrelevance
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Oh. I see.

The part of my post that was preceeded by Wu's quote was in response to him. Sorry for the confusion.

My response to you was just the first part. It was only intended to give reasoning for why I think it's laughable to rebut my argument with statistical comparisons of QBs.

Sorry for the confusion.
 
#208
#208
RockyTop85 said:
QB to WR = Apples to Oranges.

Way less intangibles involved in the WR position.

WR is supposed to:
1) Get open.
2) Catch the ball.
3) Run with the ball.
4) Block
5) Come up big in the clutch.

Statistics measure 3/5 of those and Reed was good in the clutch.

Now. You find somebody who has time to list all the things QBs have to do and I'll tell you which ones completions and yards don't begin to cover.




He also only played 2 seasons at WR. His FR year he was a RB for at least part of the season and only had 100 something yards.

When you say "talent," you're talking about guys being 6'3" and running a 4.2. That's just interjecting preference for bigger WRs into a discussion about how WRs don't necessarily have to be big to be a great WR.
Click to expand...

Reed was a great receiver. There was a reason he didn't do well in the NFL. Has nothing to do with how tall he was. He isn't nearly as talented as some SEC WRs in the last 10 years
 
#210
#210
wU-Tang Vol said:
Reed was a great receiver. There was a reason he didn't do well in the NFL. Has nothing to do with how tall he was. He isn't nearly as talented as some SEC WRs in the last 10 years
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It's really not a big deal, but I think you'd have to define "talented" for me to be able to form an opinion on that.

To me, the fact that he put up those numbers without being physically noteworthy and came through in the clutch the way I remember makes him the best WR in the SEC. He was one of my favorite players growing up and I was pretty bummed that he didn't turn into a star in the NFL.

I will say is this about his NFL career:

1. He played for Buffalo. Their offense was awful. His QBs were guys like JP Losman, Alex Van Pelt, and Trent Edwards.

2. Creating mismatches is undeniably more important in the NFL than in college because the athletes are better and the game is faster. You have to beat them man to man rather than finding soft spots in the zone. He's not a mismatch kind of WR.

3. He had an 8 year career. He was definitely much closer to the production levels of Sydney Rice than Jerry Rice, but he was the second or third leading receiver on the team like 5 or 6 of those years.

Sorry, this really wasn't supposed to be a huge deal on Josh Reed, I'm just saying that smaller WRs are absolutely viable in college, even in the almighty SEC and while, yeah, absolutely it's easier for guys like North who are big, strong, and fast, but I wouldn't pass on McKenzie just because he's 5'8" and not 6'1.
 
#213
#213
Another factor that comes into play regarding stats, is the talent around him. In the case of the Vandy receiver, he was the only premier receiver thus he gets a higher percentage of the offense running through him. Whereas at UT you typically have several receivers that are very talented so the ball is spread out a lot more. Not saying that's the case with Reed but it's something to consider.
 
#214
#214
The Breakerboy said:
Wes Welker puts up great numbers but he's not considered an Elite overall WR. Doesn't take away from him being a good player.
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Somebody is going to have to explain what makes a WR "elite" or "talented" that doesn't equate to him putting up big numbers. Otherwise it's a bad argument.

I don't know how Welker's numbers rank among NFL WRs. I know he's good on third down. I might be willing to say he's decent in the red zone but after the playoffs the last few years in New England, he doesn't seem to really shine in big games.

If I were a GM redrafting all the players in the league for a single season I think I would take him pretty early among WRs. Without looking I'd say robably not top 5 but likely top 10 among WRs.
 
#215
#215
Josh Gordon led the league in receiving.


Would you say he is more talented that Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Dez Bryant, Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, etc.?
 
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#217
#217
InVOLuntary said:
Another factor that comes into play regarding stats, is the talent around him. In the case of the Vandy receiver, he was the only premier receiver thus he gets a higher percentage of the offense running through him. Whereas at UT you typically have several receivers that are very talented so the ball is spread out a lot more. Not saying that's the case with Reed but it's something to consider.
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However, he had most of the attention from defenses and still put up all those stats.
 
#221
#221
wU-Tang Vol said:
Josh Gordon led the league in receiving.


Would you say he is more talented that Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Dez Bryant, Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, etc.?
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He is up there with them. His measurables are off the chart
 
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#223
#223
wU-Tang Vol said:
You'd think someone wouldn't drop him at the beginning of the year because he was suspended, just so the league champion could pick him up. Amirite?
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Dude lol don't even wanna talk about it, or that league haha
 
#224
#224
AV_12 said:
He is up there with them. His measurables are off the chart
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Yeah Gordon is good.

Elite= Matchup problem wherever you put them and will produce in any system

Good= Good fits/system players, they'll produce in the right system. No QB in Miami Welker caught 67 passes 0 TDs. A guy like Steve Smith(similar height much better player IMO) produced with subpar QBs his whole career.

Difference to me. Back to this electric young player though.
 
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