'16 TN LB Tim Hart (FORMER UT commit 6/26/15)

#401
#401
VolGee4 said:
It's pretty clear what Butch's strategy has been, and I have stated this well before now. He takes guys early who he is comfortable with taking but who may be further up the board. If a higher ranked prospect wants in, then he takes them and asks the other to look around. This has been a pattern, and it resulted in two top 5 classes. Pretty simple.
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That practice of asking others to look around has nothing to do with getting 2 top classes.


Those classes finished in the top 5 Because we were recruiting top 5 talent.

Those classes end up in the top 5 if we never take those kids commitments in the first place.

If anything having kids committed in a certain position makes it's a little but harder to recruit others in the same position but in no shape form or fashion can it help.
 
#402
#402
BruinVol said:
That practice of asking others to look around has nothing to do with getting 2 top classes.


Those classes finished in the top 5 Because we were recruiting top 5 talent.

Those classes end up in the top 5 if we never take those kids commitments in the first place.

If anything having kids committed in a certain position makes it's a little but harder to recruit others in the same position but in no shape form or fashion can it help.
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Bruin, you're wrong on this. Butch Jones knows what he's doing and he's got reasons for doing what he does.
 
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#403
#403
BruinVol said:
That practice of asking others to look around has nothing to do with getting 2 top classes.


Those classes finished in the top 5 Because we were recruiting top 5 talent.

Those classes end up in the top 5 if we never take those kids commitments in the first place.

If anything having kids committed in a certain position makes it's a little but harder to recruit others in the same position but in no shape form or fashion can it help.
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You are exactly right. Our class would have been ranked the same if we had taken Marques Ford and turned away Kyle Phillips.
Or two years ago, if we had taken Dominique Booth and turned away Josh Malone. This is just silliness, Bruin. You don't have to argue just to argue.
 
#404
#404
BigZiti09 said:
Bruin, you're wrong on this. Butch Jones knows what he's doing and he's got reasons for doing what he does.
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lol


Hopefully the negative PR of this doesn't burn enough bridges to effect things negatively but we have already about those bridges being burned.

The only thing is certain is that when a kid is cut loose it is correcting a coaching evaluation mistake. I prefer the coaches make better more accurate evals just in case these burned bridges end up hurting over time
 
#405
#405
VolGee4 said:
You are exactly right. Our class would have been ranked the same if we had taken Marques Ford and turned away Kyle Phillips.
Or two years ago, if we had taken Dominique Booth and turned away Josh Malone. This is just silliness, Bruin. You don't have to argue just to argue.
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Wait wait wait

I am not suggesting that at all. You are twisting words for sure

I am saying those classes would have been ranked the same if booth, ford, and other kids asked to to take a hike had never been offered and committed from the start
 
#406
#406
BruinVol said:
Wait wait wait

I am not suggesting that at all. You are twisting words for sure

I am saying those classes would have been ranked the same if booth, ford, and other kids asked to to take a hike had never been offered and committed from the start
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Yes, and if Malone doesn't commit to UT then you have lost out on a decent talent in Booth. It's the process. No one cares if you don't like. Just enjoy being a fan for once.
 
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#407
#407
BruinVol said:
lol


Hopefully the negative PR of this doesn't burn enough bridges to effect things negatively but we have already about those bridges being burned.

The only thing is certain is that when a kid is cut loose it is correcting a coaching evaluation mistake. I prefer the coaches make better more accurate evals just in case these burned bridges end up hurting over time
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Kids play games and "reserve" slots. Coaches play games and take "reservations". Both are known to flip late in said games. This is nothing new. The word "commitment" lost all meaning years ago. Both sides are to blame, but the genie is out of the bottle and you aren't going to put him back in no matter how much we might dislike what's happened to recruiting. It's all part of the big business that is college football.

Water finds its own level. Kids like Hart will, too. Better to find that spot now vs a year or two later when he's been recruited over and is buried on the depth chart. Saves the kid a transfer process.
 
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#408
#408
VolGee4 said:
Yes, and if Malone doesn't commit to UT then you have lost out on a decent talent in Booth. It's the process. No one cares if you don't like. Just enjoy being a fan for once.
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Gee


We can easily flip a kid late in the process that is committed to Indiana or Rutgers if we miss on the 5star guys. That way there are no stories about trying to mend the fences with high schools that you need to recruit a guy at down the road.
 
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#409
#409
CAVPUT said:
Kids play games and "reserve" slots. Coaches play games and take "reservations". Both are known to flip late in said games. This is nothing new. The word "commitment" lost all meaning years ago. Both sides are to blame, but the genie is out of the bottle and you aren't going to put him back in no matter how much we might dislike what's happened to recruiting. It's all part of the big business that is college football.

Water finds its own level. Kids like Hart will, too. Better to find that spot now vs a year or two later when he's been recruited over and is buried on the depth chart. Saves the kid a transfer process.
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Two wrongs don't make a right


Sept 1 opens up a continuous singing period where the NLI is voided if the HC leaves. Evaluating really becomes important if this were to happen
 
#410
#410
BruinVol said:
Gee


We can easily flip a kid late in the process that is committed to Indiana or Rutgers if we miss on the 5star guys. That way there are no stories about trying to mend the fences with high schools that you need to recruit a guy at down the road.
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And you are asking a high school kid to do the very same thing that you are critical of. Kind of ironic.
 
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#413
#413
BruinVol said:
lol


Hopefully the negative PR of this doesn't burn enough bridges to effect things negatively but we have already about those bridges being burned.

The only thing is certain is that when a kid is cut loose it is correcting a coaching evaluation mistake. I prefer the coaches make better more accurate evals just in case these burned bridges end up hurting over time
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The negative PR doesn't seem to hurt Bama, GA, FL, SC, OSU, Clemson, OK, Michigan, OR, ect.... They ALL do it!
 
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#415
#415
Weezer said:
As compared to what? The last two years? We obviously can't take the same numbers as the last two years, so of course this class won't be as highly ranked. We don't have immediate playing time to promise to a stud RB, so it's understandable why we're not getting one this year.(Not that the one we're signing is bad.) The one area I see as a true step back is WR. That will need to be addressed, but we're still in it for highly rated players at other positions of need. Best case scenario, our only recruiting step back is WR, and Butch fixes that this year. NSD will tell us a lot of what we want to know.
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There are other recruiting pitches besides immediate playing time.. It's a step back any way you want to slice it, as we aren't the only school that has their 2 deep built up for the most part.. There are more guys similar to hart committed. Quality isn't there either ATP. If we sign 22, it really won't be a small class, as the last 2 years weren't the norm when it comes to class size.
 
#416
#416
BruinVol said:
My stance on that is pretty simple

Kids will act like kids. Kids change their minds

Adults need to be above that.
1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.
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I agree with that. However, the word "commitment" just doesn't carry much weight anymore. Kids commit to hold a spot and then start looking to upgrade. It changed the game. Coaches started doing the same. It's not right but it's the recruiting game now.

I think that starting with the 2017 class but more so in the 2018 class you will see UT recruiting at a truly elite level where we can avoid these situations where we have to cut kids loose.
 
#419
#419
BigZiti09 said:
I agree with that. However, the word "commitment" just doesn't carry much weight anymore. Kids commit to hold a spot and then start looking to upgrade. It changed the game. Coaches started doing the same. It's not right but it's the recruiting game now.

I think that starting with the 2017 class but more so in the 2018 class you will see UT recruiting at a truly elite level where we can avoid these situations where we have to cut kids loose.
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I don't think you are going to find one of the kids we ask to look around committed to us and then looked around to upgrade.
 
#425
#425
BruinVol said:
I am saying it's very rare for any of our kids to committ and then look to upgrade.

Only a few elite ones have done that and those are the ones we are talking about anyway
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Fair point.

Goes back to my point yesterday about taking commitments from marginal players at times because it helps you stay at the top of the rankings and it helps perception.
 
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