'16 TN LB Tim Hart (FORMER UT commit 6/26/15)

#701
#701
StoVol said:
Wrong is wrong and always will be, no matter how many apologetics cry "it's the world we live in". Deceiving minors unnecessarily is unproductive no matter which way you slice it. Simple solution, don't fill up your class in October. No need to lie then
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Even the best coaches do it. These guys high school football coaches know the college coaches do it. I would be willing to bet the recruits themselves know the coaches do it. Call it whatever you like but its not going to change. To you its wrong. To others its not.
 
#702
#702
BigOrange15 said:
So, if they liked him early and offered but he didn't progress into the SEC caliber player they hoped he'd be, they should just take him anyway even if a better player wants to commit? That's bull**** and frankly, not the mentality I want our staff to have if they are trying to get us to the top of the SEC.
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If he is a borderline take, just don't take him early. Recruit him. Let him make UOVs, and watch his progression. Instead of taking his commitment in June, you take it in Oct/Nov if you want him. If you take him if June as you saw enough, then yes, his spot should be safe. If he doesn't progress or you run out of spots, that's the coaches problem. Kid keeps his spot. Maybe next year coach is a little more selective early on.
 
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#703
#703
BigOrange15 said:
It's so tone deaf to the recruiting environment to act like this all happens in a vacuum. "If you offer, you MUST stick to it". That's not how any of this works, its absurd. You stay in communication with kids about the situations and you take the best players you can get. Like I said, if people want to discuss dropping the kid 2 weeks before signing day, I'm down with that...but they were hoping this kid would develop into an SEC caliber player and he didn't and we don't have much space. If you dig 8-4, you take him anyway...if your goals are higher, you do what you have to do and take the better player.
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I dig not offering the kid in the first place.

Then There would be nothing to discuss at this point.

We are too damn elite to think we have to be the first to offer to get a kid. That certainly didn't work out with the DT from LA
 
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#704
#704
junder13 said:
Plenty of offers go out early. It's about accepting that offer publicly that matters. I don't think any fan had an issue with the instance (or two) where a recruit announced a commitment on twitter only then to have to take it back when the coaches let the recruit know that it wasn't committable at that time. It's when a staff accepts a commitment that matters. Some of us are just saying that Butch Jones should not be accepting commitments from borderline players early on. Simple. And this practice is NOT required to return UT to elite status again (quite the opposite, if you think about it from a long-term perspective, as it hurts relationships with coaches and communities).
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Why? If he's borderline, you take him hoping he develops. If you don't, someone else will. Like I said, early/first offers often matter quite a bit. Elite players typically wait longer so if you only accept elite players commitments, you will have no idea of your recruiting situation/landscape/needs until December or January and then you are scrambling.
 
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#705
#705
CrunchingTheVolz said:
If he is a borderline take, just don't take him early. Recruit him. Let him make UOVs, and watch his progression. Instead of taking his commitment in June, you take it in Oct/Nov if you want him. If you take him if June as you saw enough, then yes, his spot should be safe. If he doesn't progress or you run out of spots, that's the coaches problem. Kid keeps his spot. Maybe next year coach is a little more selective early on.
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This is the philosophy of a losing program. So glad Butch doesnt follow this advice.
 
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#707
#707
This staff offers more kids than anyone in the SEC and probably the country. Early offers are fine. I'm sure most kids have realized an offer now a days means very little from a lot of schools UT included. The staff still has to accept the commitment. Just don't take it If you're not going to honor it.
 
#708
#708
Kristy* said:
Agree. Also, would it be fair to the kid to take him, knowing he will not see the field during his 4 years (if he made it that long)?
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If a coach questions a kid's ability to that extent, why offer him in the first place? If dropping a kid w/ a scholly offer had no possible benefit for a school, I'm sure fans would find it less acceptable, including you.

Plenty of schools wait longer to offer players (Richt was notorious for this at UGA and, yes, he waited too long with plenty of recruits and it occasionally cost him). Les Miles tends to wait until late to offer marginal talent. My point is, it does not have to be this way. And even if it did, it still wouldn't make it right, whether fans are desperate to win or its Vandy and losing is acceptable.
 
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#709
#709
CrunchingTheVolz said:
This staff offers more kids than anyone in the SEC and probably the country. Early offers are fine. I'm sure most kids have realized an offer now a days means very little from a lot of schools UT included. The staff still has to accept the commitment. Just don't take it If you're not going to honor it.
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They don't have a ****ing crystal ball to see what the player's or the school's situation will be at signing day. They don't set out to offer kids just to yank their offers they offer them hoping they will be a player the becomes a player capable of getting on the field here...but it doesn't always work that way.
 
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#710
#710
College football is a business.. You think Nick Saban cares about stepping on the toes of 3 star recruits?
 
#711
#711
BigOrange15 said:
They don't have a ****ing crystal ball to see what the player's situation will be at signing day. They don't set out to offer kids just to yank their commitments, they offer them hoping they will be a player the becomes a player capable of getting on the field here...but it doesn't always work that way.
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Isn't that called evaluating?
 
#713
#713
BigOrange15 said:
It's so tone deaf to the recruiting environment to act like this all happens in a vacuum. "If you offer, you MUST stick to it". That's not how any of this works, its absurd. You stay in communication with kids about the situations and you take the best players you can get. Like I said, if people want to discuss dropping the kid 2 weeks before signing day, I'm down with that...but they were hoping this kid would develop into an SEC caliber player and he didn't and we don't have much space. If you dig 8-4, you take him anyway...if your goals are higher, you do what you have to do and take the better player.
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If you have circumstantial ethics, sure. A situational moral standard is no moral standard at all.
 
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#714
#714
TJVol_24 said:
College football is a business.. You think Nick Saban cares about stepping on the toes of 3 star recruits?
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These are the post I love the most

VN has called Saban everything but a cedar bush. We called him a heartless POS that has the moral fiber of hitler

Yet now we align ourselves with him To save face

One word.

Hypocritical
 
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#716
#716
BigOrange15 said:
Exactly. If people are happy with this style, that's fine. We all feel how we feel...but this mindset will not get us a title. Ever.
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Really? Think about it.

How many commitments offers has Butch yanked since arriving and not including this class? Guys like Marques Ford. Now if you penciled those guys onto the roster would we still be looking at a 2016 title run? I think so. You can do things respectfully and still win.
 
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#717
#717
junder13 said:
If you have circumstantial ethics, sure. A situational moral standard is no moral standard at all.
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Stop preaching about a moral standard. It's not "immoral" to accept a commitment from a player you truly want hoping they will develop and then taking it away and giving it to someone who has if they don't as long as you are on the up and up about it. That's not immoral, that's ****ing recruiting.
 
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#718
#718
BigOrange15 said:
This staff overall evaluates just fine and you are a ******n liar if you say they don't. Its obvious to pretty much everyone at this point. However, they are not infallible.
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Infallible?

Lol you must be jones himself


Looking at the amount of kids we have dropped I wouldn't claim this staffs strength is out evaluating others. Most of our difference makers have been easily evaluated and highly recruited
 
#719
#719
BigOrange15 said:
Why? If he's borderline, you take him hoping he develops. If you don't, someone else will. Like I said, early/first offers often matter quite a bit. Elite players typically wait longer so if you only accept elite players commitments, you will have no idea of your recruiting situation/landscape/needs until December or January and then you are scrambling.
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Not if you can prove you have an elite product you put on the field. Therein lies the rub, I suppose...
 
#720
#720
BruinVol said:
These are the post I love the most

VN has called Saban everything but a cedar bush. We called him a heartless POS that has the moral fiber of hitler

Yet now we align ourselves with him To save face

One word.

Hypocritical
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Saban is a freaking cedar bush! What a jerk!
 
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#721
#721
TJVol_24 said:
College football is a business.. You think Nick Saban cares about stepping on the toes of 3 star recruits?
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Saban, Meyer, Dabo the list goes on and on. The best coaches in the country take the best players they can get. Thats how championship programs are built. Leave the feelings and emotions at the door.
 
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#722
#722
BruinVol said:
Infallible?

Lol you must be jones himself


Looking at the amount of kids we have dropped I wouldn't claim this staffs strength is out evaluating kids. Most of our difference makers have been easily evaluated and highly recruited
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No, if everyone else did claim that, you'd make sure that you claimed the opposite 10,000+ times.
 
#723
#723
BruinVol said:
Infallible?

Lol you must be jones himself


Looking at the amount of kids we have dropped I wouldn't claim this staffs strength is out evaluating kids. Most of our difference makers have been easily evaluated and highly recruited
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Like E. Mosley starting from day 1? He was 2*. They didn't drop him. He worked, developed, and continued to show his potential.
 
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#724
#724
I agree with you under on the perfect example. I wish things were not as they are, and I don't believe Butch Jones is a bad person.
 
#725
#725
I WISH that commitment still meant something. I WISH that coaches and kids honored their words all the time. I WISH that Auburn and Ole Miss wouldn't bring suitcases full of cash to in home visits...but as long as you aren't cheating, you have to play the game the way that it's laid out.
 
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