'16 TN LB Tim Hart (FORMER UT commit 6/26/15)

[BigOrangeTrain]

It's not difficult.

Top rated recruits who are proven SEC talent are takes anytime. Borderline recruits you don't take a commitment from before maybe Oct/Nov. You have seen them in the heart of their SR season. Make your decision and honor it. Yeah, you can win doing it.

Imagination land

 

[T2Vol]

So what if we dropped many more than Clemson does? Who cares? Are we Clemson? No. Screw Clemson. If Butch needs to drop 100 guys to get us back to elite, championship level, then so be it. Wow its shocking that this is even up for debate.

I couldn't agree w you more right now. Glad to see somebody gets it :good!:

 

[CrunchingTheVolz]

How many we dropped in 3 yrs, 4 players so far I can remember and the one last yr got Phillips

Not really. All they had to do was cut loose a recruit who was taking visits instead of Ford. Then you have Phillips and don't have the black eye from dropping Ford. It's much more accepted to see committed kids taking trips loose their spot.

 

[BruinVol]

Nobody is arguing that 3 starts don't make good players... You seem to be missing the point

My point is simple


A large % of our 3star solid finds are kids we flipped late in the process.

We are elite and can flip kids like the ones mentioned and no need to try and project the fringy kid early on and take their commitment.

 

[kw3953]

Go hug a tree...recruiting's too brutal for you.

-butchna

Moral compass shows with an innocent cheerleader avi. 😛

 

[junder13]

Go hug a tree...recruiting's too brutal for you.

-butchna

Moral compass shows with an innocent cheerleader avi. 😛

There is nothing wrong with an appreciation for the fairer sex ; )

 

[PYSCHO]

Not really. All they had to do was cut loose a recruit who was taking visits instead of Ford. Then you have Phillips and don't have the black eye from dropping Ford. It's much more accepted to see committed kids taking trips loose their spot.

So you are saying manning commits and takes an ov to ole miss you cut him loose. Some of those visits for them kids maybe the first time they have been anywhere at all. If you can get better talent you do. That is any sport ever played

 

[kw3953]

There is nothing wrong with an appreciation for the fairer sex ; )

Could not agree more.

 

[CrunchingTheVolz]

Maybe Butch is learning. The 2017 class is pretty empty early. Higgins is a sure thing. Johnson was. Hopefully there is more evaluation early and not so many place holders.

 

[junder13]

Not really. All they had to do was cut loose a recruit who was taking visits instead of Ford. Then you have Phillips and don't have the black eye from dropping Ford. It's much more accepted to see committed kids taking trips loose their spot.

Reading this reminds me more of the Ford situation last year. It bothered me the most because he had suddenly become a hot commodity and was being recruited by major programs (including UF) late in the game and publicly told them all, "Thanks but no thanks", only to then get dropped like 3-4 days before NSD. He literally didn't even have a weekend to take an official visit. That was truly terrible. If that's what it takes to win (I don't think it is...no, I am confident it is not) than the sport is not worth following.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

You keep mentioning Ms State as if that is the lofty goal we should aspire to. I want much more than that.

I'm comparing what would happen if we overwhelmingly recruited in-state. The debate was whether or not TN talent alone could support a viable program. Nothing to do with winning a NC. 8-9 wins is viable but not ultimate goal. Got it?

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

The kid darn sure didn't have to put it out to the world like that either. It could have been a simple "After consideration, I'm no longer committed to UT and I'm actively seeking other options for my future."

And done.

Yet Hart himself made this into a public spectacle. Giving the university a black eye in the process as plenty of news sites covered that very same note he released. So if he wanted attention, he surely got it. And he now has to take the good with the bad.

It may be pathetic, but there are two sides to this and he's not as innocent or as victimized as he makes himself out to be.

Well it wasnt after his consideration to begin with. Secondly, why should he sugar coat it to save face for a school that he's not going to?

 

[CrunchingTheVolz]

So you are saying manning commits and takes an ov to ole miss you cut him loose. Some of those visits for them kids maybe the first time they have been anywhere at all. If you can get better talent you do. That is any sport ever played

No. Im saying if I have to cut someone, it would be someone taking visits late or when I need to make room if it comes to that.

 

[junder13]

Maybe Butch is learning. The 2017 class is pretty empty early. Higgins is a sure thing. Johnson was. Hopefully there is more evaluation early and not so many place holders.

I entertained that thought earlier. I actually am inclined to think it is a good sign that Butch will not be repeating some of these borderline early acceptances like he did in the first 3 classes (not counting 2013). I'll be as happy as anyone if so...

 

[PYSCHO]

Reading this reminds me more of the Ford situation last year. It bothered me the most because he had suddenly become a hot commodity and was being recruited by major programs (including UF) late in the game and publicly told them all, "Thanks but no thanks", only to then get dropped like 3-4 days before NSD. He literally didn't even have a weekend to take an official visit. That was truly terrible. If that's what it takes to win (I don't think it is...no, I am confident it is not) than the sport is not worth following.

I am not saying it is right all I am saying is it happens and will continue to happen and the better your team gets and becomes a hot commodity the more action that will happen late towards nsd. Staff changes, players looking at other options both for ut and at other teams will always be there and there will be disgruntled kids. Promising starting spots and only one at your position etc is always going to be a bs line

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

So, if they liked him early and offered but he didn't progress into the SEC caliber player they hoped he'd be, they should just take him anyway even if a better player wants to commit? That's bull**** and frankly, not the mentality I want our staff to have if they are trying to get us to the top of the SEC.

Guess if they're worth their salt they could develop him? They saw something in his skill set that they liked. Did he suddenly lose those same skills?

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Agree. Also, would it be fair to the kid to take him, knowing he will not see the field during his 4 years (if he made it that long)?

Yes, if he's content with that. If not he can choose to leave. Plenty of kids rarely play. They're on the team because they love the game, their teammates, the school, the pride of being able to represent their schools/state. If only the kids in the 2 deep stuck around you'd have a team of 50 kids.

 

[Big Orange Jeff]

Really? Think about it.

How many commitments offers has Butch yanked since arriving and not including this class? Guys like Marques Ford. Now if you penciled those guys onto the roster would we still be looking at a 2016 title run? I think so. You can do things respectfully and still win.

Had the staff not "yanked" offers last year, as you put it, there wouldn't have been room for Drew Richmond, Quart'e Sapp, Joshua Dobbs, Jashon Robertson, Dylan Wiesman and other late additions to Butch's signing classes. And each of those guys will be important pieces of a possible title run later this year.

Once again, you're argument doesn't stand up to even the mildest scrutiny.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Dobbs, Hall, Wolf, Pearson, Jonathan Johnson, Owen Williams, Mixon, Moseley, Foreman

All 3 stars or below and who weren't highly recruited, yet they have played meaningful snaps.

Pearson was a borderline 5* on rivals. What site ranked him as a 3*?

 

[junder13]

I am not saying it is right all I am saying is it happens and will continue to happen and the better your team gets and becomes a hot commodity the more action that will happen late towards nsd. Staff changes, players looking at other options both for ut and at other teams will always be there and there will be disgruntled kids. Promising starting spots and only one at your position etc is always going to be a bs line

I get it and I don't think this is some kind of important travesty. It's unfortunate but, on the grand scheme of things, a small matter. Like I said earlier, I am more bothered that its so acceptable for most people than I am about the actual occurrence itself. (Well, it also bothers me how often this has happened the last three years.)

I know we all want to win but taking marginal players early in the recruiting process is not going to get us to the next level anyway, so why do it? It's not right to reneg publicly accepted commitments but it's also unnecessary to have accepted them in the first place. If we want to be the first to offer a kid whose recruitment could blow up, fine. Great. I kinda like that. But don't accept an early commitment unless the player will be a difference-maker. All I'm saying, broski. Shalom/salaam/peace

 

[CrunchingTheVolz]

Had the staff not "yanked" offers last year, as you put it, there wouldn't have been room for Drew Richmond, Quart'e Sapp, Joshua Dobbs, Jashon Robertson, Dylan Wiesman and other late additions to Butch's signing classes. And each of those guys will be important pieces of a possible title run later this year.

Once again, you're argument doesn't stand up to even the mildest scrutiny.

Sure it does. If they wanted Richmond,I have no doubt SOMEONE committed was taking visits around that time. You need room, that's the guy who gets cut. You would never hear a peep from me about it.

Do that and kids would be mindful of those late visits for fun. If I need room I cut the ones taking visits. Not the ones who have been steadfast and solid for months.

It's not hard.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Dont forget about Sutton.

This staff didn't recruit Sutton! This is the most misstated example on VN. Sutton was committed for 6 months before anyone knew who CBJ was.

 

[butchna]

I entertained that thought earlier. I actually am inclined to think it is a good sign that Butch will not be repeating some of these borderline early acceptances like he did in the first 3 classes (not counting 2013). I'll be as happy as anyone if so...

Yeah...we don't care. I'm inclined to think that Butch is going to take care of the program and try to be nice in the process...but not let that nicety be an albatross on his primary concern...top performance. We need him to do the character building of the athletes in his charge, and the dirty work in deciding who those athletes are. He can't coach and recruit scared because 10 win seasons can still get you fired. Ask Miami's new HC. :wink2: Only offering athletes you're 100% sold on is ideal...but maybe the demand created from dwindling spots is another selling point for the undecided difference makers? Don't know don't care. I love burgers, steaks and other delicious things that used to have a heartbeat. If I had to do the dirty business that put those functioning living creatures on my plate, I'd cease to be the fine-tuned posting machine that brings so much joy and sanity to this board. I'd have a steadier influx of soul crushing fare (brussels sprouts?) and end up struggling to save everybody and make coaches nice for ole State U. No thanks...do what you gotta do Butch...we'll buy earmuffs. :cool2:

 

[butchna]

This staff didn't recruit Sutton! This is the most misstated example on VN. Sutton was committed for 6 months before anyone knew who CBJ was.

Was all but flipped to Auburn...Butch's first great recruiting win.

 

[Mike4Vols]

Yeah...we don't care. I'm inclined to think that Butch is going to take care of the program and try to be nice in the process...but not let that nicety be an albatross on his primary concern...top performance. We need him to do the character building of the athletes in his charge, and the dirty work in deciding who those athletes are. He can't coach and recruit scared because 10 win seasons can still get you fired. Ask Miami's new HC. :wink2: Only offering athletes you're 100% sold on is ideal...but maybe the demand created from dwindling spots is another selling point for the undecided difference makers? Don't know don't care. I love burgers, steaks and other delicious things that used to have a heartbeat. If I had to do the dirty business that put those functioning living creatures on my plate, I'd cease to be the fine-tuned posting machine that brings so much joy and sanity to this board. I'd have a steadier influx of soul crushing fare (brussels sprouts?) and end up struggling to save everybody and make coaches nice for ole State U. No thanks...do what you gotta do Butch...we'll buy earmuffs. :cool2:

Word.