'16 TN LB Tim Hart (FORMER UT commit 6/26/15)

[Vol Main]

If Hart's reason for decommitting was a long period of poor communication, I can't help wondering if he tried to make contacts and if he explored other options before giving up. He had a number of good offers. If his 2015 season graded well, then he should have other open doors.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Or where Paul Fortenberry said he was offered a blue shirt. Little bit more than "volnation poster"

No it's obviously all propaganda straight from the athletic department.


WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!!1!1!1!

 

[SergeantVol]

Yeah, this is not going anywhere.

You guys just figuring out that recruiting is nasty business? It cuts both ways. Don't hold a staff whose livelihood depends on performance on the field to their word with an 85 schollie limit if a better option at at position comes along. Especially when the kid might flip anyway if the right offer came along from somewhere else.

Butch's job is to recruit the very best student-athletes that he can, within the rules, to play football for the university that's signing his significant paycheck.

Recruits job is to get the very best DI offer that his abilities and limitations allow him to sign.

It's business.

You might as well be talking to a brick wall. No one is going to listen.

 

[sanddune50]

All of your points are fair but you are still conjecturing just like you are accusing me of doing. And, yes, the other side has made an assertion -- a blueshirt was offered according to VQ. Unless they are purely conjecturing than that information was leaked to them by people in the know. Otherwise they would be comprising their position with the staff as media/reporters. As stated earlier, there appears to have been little to no communication between the two sides for quite some time, which is not the course a staff would take with a prospect they wanted on campus. Therefore, I am skeptical they acted responsibly in rescinding his offer two weeks before NSD. What evidence do you have for any of your conjectures?

How about the fact that Hart started tweeting about 'this being a business' immediately after Butch rescinded scholarships from Okonya and Marshall over a month ago. It may have became public a couple of days ago. But this kid knew his status had changed well before that.

 

[volgirl99]

How about the fact that Hart started tweeting about 'this being a business' immediately after Butch rescinded scholarships from Okonya and Marshall over a month ago. It may have became public a couple of days ago. But this kid knew his status had changed well before that.

Exactly. When Chidi and TaDarryl had their's taken away, you didn't see anything like this from them. They just announced their decommitment and moved on. Class

 

[WildTurkey]

Comparing a kid to buying a stock is not reality and a pretty pathetic example. My issue with Sargeant is his example and acting like there shouldn't be emotions involved.

You can call it pathetic or whatever you like. I don't particularly like the stock/commodity analogy, but it's not all that inaccurate. I don't think Butch - or any good coach - is emotionless when recruiting players. I think it probably hurts them to have to have tough conversations. But just like with Jancek, sometimes you have to make cold, calculating decisions. It doesn't make you a cold person.

 

[sanddune50]

A lot of fake anger in this thread for a kid no one has met in an effort to make some posters feel morally superior to others. It reeks of insecurity and self doubt.

 

[junder13]

How about the fact that Hart started tweeting about 'this being a business' immediately after Butch rescinded scholarships from Okonya and Marshall over a month ago. It may have became public a couple of days ago. But this kid knew his status had changed well before that.

Possibly, yes. I didn't see the "don't believe the hype, it's a business" tweet as an indication of interaction with the staff (quite the contrary actually) but as recognition of the cold nature of "the business" side of a staff that espoused a tight-knit family atmosphere (which we often hearing from recruits following a visit).

It doesn't change the fact that several of the commits we've had this year should probably not have been allowed to commit when they did. Classes eventually fill up as higher rated prospects begin making their decisions and we had weak in-state talent this year from the get so we were likely to have low numbers heading into the home stretch of this recruiting season. Also, this staff's reliance on blue shirts at the last minute is no way to properly manage a roster. This was more understandable in our rebuild mode but we have a stacked roster now for what should be one of our best seasons in this century. Hart taking a blueshirt would not have helped next season anyway and the 2017 class could be elite for UT. So why reduce the next class with this blueshirt and that blueshirt? One of the reasons I don't think the blueshirt offer was sincere. But that is speculation on my part, absolutely. Whether it was a sincere blueshirt offer or not, doesn't change the fact that UT acted irresponsibly in this situation IMO.

 

[junder13]

Exactly. When Chidi and TaDarryl had their's taken away, you didn't see anything like this from them. They just announced their decommitment and moved on. Class

These 18-year olds aren't the ones in the position of power when they are not elite recruits (which there are only a couple dozen of such each year). So why is it on them to act accordingly if the scholarship they are offered and accepted (publicly) is taken away? Are you condoning accepting the fate handed down to you by others with dignity and "class" no matter how fair or unfair it is? No everyone is willing to be stepped on like that.

 

[junder13]

A lot of fake anger in this thread for a kid no one has met in effort to make some posters feel morally superior to others. It reeks of insecurity and self doubt.

This has nothing to do with moral superiority. Nice deflection. It's about whether it's acceptable or not. Some view it as unacceptable (or at least irresponsible) behavior by people who represent the state and state university. Others view it as acceptable and the nature of the beast as long as the program returns to prominence. I doubt the former are puffing their chest out at the latter. It's an unanimous message board anyway. But these things matter to people who are passionate about UT football, no matter which side of the fence they are on. The fact that most of us have never met Hart has no bearing on how we feel about the situation.

 

[munsterlander]

And he (and presumably you) are using assumptions to support the staff.

At least my "conjecture" is based on a plethora of circumstantial evidence (past indiscretions, little or no communication in months leading up to decision, Hart's word, etc.). VQ has even questioned whether Hart would be a part of the class several months ago. There's enough evidence (over the last 3 years and last 3 months) to paint an unflattering picture of this and similar situations. Yet, because you and others can throw out possible "alternative explanations" than we should all just ignore it and accept it as "part of recruiting"? Not me.

I could win the lottery but since that's not my current reality the possibility carries no meaning. And the possibility of winning the powerball doesn't mean I should put all my money into buying tickets. These possible scenarios hold no value in real life because we don't know them to be true. We can only value what we know or think we know....not meaningless hypotheticals.

Plethora of circumstantial evidence = meaningless hypotheticals.

You clearly feel very strongly about this. Not sure what you're trying to accomplish.

 

[BigOrange15]

A lot of fake anger in this thread for a kid no one has met in effort to make some posters feel morally superior to others. It reeks of insecurity and self doubt.

This.

 

[Otis07]

in the first conversation The University of Tennessee told the young man we want you to play for us. It seems then they said that we don't you to play for us......Somewhere in there a lie was told. It might be the ugly business of big time football, but the kid has a right to be PO'd

 

[BigOrange15]

in the first conversation The University of Tennessee told the young man we want you to play for us. It seems then they said that we don't you to play for us......Somewhere in there a lie was told. It might be the ugly business of big time football, but the kid has a right to be PO'd

It's funny that people think that it's this black and white.

 

[junder13]

Plethora of circumstantial evidence = meaningless hypotheticals.

You clearly feel very strongly about this. Not sure what you're trying to accomplish.

I only started posting in this thread because I was bothered by the overwhelming response in favor of the coaching staff's decision to drop Hart (allegedly). I don't post often and won't in the future.

Again, it's not the situation that bothers me as much as the one-sided reaction. I just see a continuing pattern of indifference to questionable decisions from people in positions of authority. I see a lack of accountability from those in power who make these decisions. I see a turning a blind eye from the few who are knowledgeable on such abuses of power and a herd mindset of accepting this narrative from the masses who read comprised "news" reporting on such topics. While this recruiting "grievance" is penance compared to things in life that truly matter (Operation Fast and Furious, Benghazi, Citizens United, Trans-Pacific Free Trade Agreement, drone attack on a wedding in Yemini, and countless other recent examples around the world), it is like a said, a microcosm of society today.

I have no desire to make this political but it is the bigger picture that concerns me when I see people react to injustice with complete apathy. I have no agenda but simply to provide the alternate view in case there are others who think, "Why is no one else bothered by this?". Those people are not alone. And it's not a moral superiority complex nor a personal crusade. I don't care how others view me. I just want balance and accountability.

 

[butchna]

:lol:

 

[RetardedElf]

I only started posting in this thread because I was bothered by the overwhelming response in favor of the coaching staff's decision to drop Hart (allegedly). I don't post often and won't in the future.

Again, it's not the situation that bothers me as much as the one-sided reaction. I just see a continuing pattern of indifference to questionable decisions from people in positions of authority. I see a lack of accountability from those in power who make these decisions. I see a turning a blind eye from the few who are knowledgeable on such abuses of power and a herd mindset of accepting this narrative from the masses who read comprised "news" reporting on such topics. While this recruiting "grievance" is penance compared to things in life that truly matter (Operation Fast and Furious, Benghazi, Citizens United, Trans-Pacific Free Trade Agreement, drone attack on a wedding in Yemini, and countless other recent examples around the world), it is like a said, a microcosm of society today.

I have no desire to make this political but it is the bigger picture that concerns me when I see people react to injustice with complete apathy. I have no agenda but simply to provide the alternate view in case there are others who think, "Why is no one else bothered by this?". Those people are not alone. And it's not a moral superiority complex nor a personal crusade. I don't care how others view me. I just want balance and accountability.

That might be the craziest thing I've ever seen on here. Recruiting is basically a business decisions that 2 parties have to agree on. This is on par with someone telling you that they think you're probably going to get the job and then they decide to pick someone more qualified for the job. Nothing is official until the papers get signed and either party can leave up until that point

 

[BigOrange15]

I only started posting in this thread because I was bothered by the overwhelming response in favor of the coaching staff's decision to drop Hart (allegedly). I don't post often and won't in the future.

Again, it's not the situation that bothers me as much as the one-sided reaction. I just see a continuing pattern of indifference to questionable decisions from people in positions of authority. I see a lack of accountability from those in power who make these decisions. I see a turning a blind eye from the few who are knowledgeable on such abuses of power and a herd mindset of accepting this narrative from the masses who read comprised "news" reporting on such topics. While this recruiting "grievance" is penance compared to things in life that truly matter (Operation Fast and Furious, Benghazi, Citizens United, Trans-Pacific Free Trade Agreement, drone attack on a wedding in Yemini, and countless other recent examples around the world), it is like a said, a microcosm of society today.

I have no desire to make this political but it is the bigger picture that concerns me when I see people react to injustice with complete apathy. I have no agenda but simply to provide the alternate view in case there are others who think, "Why is no one else bothered by this?". Those people are not alone. And it's not a moral superiority complex nor a personal crusade. I don't care how others view me. I just want balance and accountability.

Do you typically follow recruiting?

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Apologies. I miss understood what you were saying. I don't like that recruits are treated as commodities either. Unfortunately, that is what this business has turned into. When coaches feel the pressure, their tactics change to ensure their longevity. It isn't pretty but it is fact.

Won't disagree. And others are right, we as fans have in part helped create and grow the practice of it.

 

[bignewt]

I only started posting in this thread because I was bothered by the overwhelming response in favor of the coaching staff's decision to drop Hart (allegedly). I don't post often and won't in the future.

Again, it's not the situation that bothers me as much as the one-sided reaction. I just see a continuing pattern of indifference to questionable decisions from people in positions of authority. I see a lack of accountability from those in power who make these decisions. I see a turning a blind eye from the few who are knowledgeable on such abuses of power and a herd mindset of accepting this narrative from the masses who read comprised "news" reporting on such topics. While this recruiting "grievance" is penance compared to things in life that truly matter (Operation Fast and Furious, Benghazi, Citizens United, Trans-Pacific Free Trade Agreement, drone attack on a wedding in Yemini, and countless other recent examples around the world), it is like a said, a microcosm of society today.

I have no desire to make this political but it is the bigger picture that concerns me when I see people react to injustice with complete apathy. I have no agenda but simply to provide the alternate view in case there are others who think, "Why is no one else bothered by this?". Those people are not alone. And it's not a moral superiority complex nor a personal crusade. I don't care how others view me. I just want balance and accountability.

Everybody should get a trophy darn it!

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Your feelings hurt? I did not say anything negative about Mr. Hart. I hope he has a great career and makes a ton of money playing ball. Glad you see the need to be condescending and insulting to people on a message board. If they were recruiting people with bad attitudes you would be a 5-star+.

You said most understand how recruiting works and if they get their feelings hurt that's on them. That was in a post also talking about HS coaches. If that was directed at them and not the players then I apologize as I mistook your point. If it was about the players then it was an indirect shot at Hart.

 

[BigBadVol]

Man I have read some crap on here. Kids decommit all the time so why is it wrong when a coach changes his mind about a recruit? Regardless, the kid needs to keep his mouth shut. Throwing a hissy fit because it didn't work out shows great immaturity.

 

[southgatevol]

You said most understand how recruiting works and if they get their feelings hurt that's on them. That was in a post also talking a both HD coaches. If that was directed at them and not the players then I apologize as I mistook your point. If it was about the players then it was an indirect shot at Hart.

Head coaches. But they should inform the recruits how the process works. Recruiting is a dirty business and most high school coaches know this and should convey this to the recruits.

 

[munsterlander]

I only started posting in this thread because I was bothered by the overwhelming response in favor of the coaching staff's decision to drop Hart (allegedly). I don't post often and won't in the future.

Again, it's not the situation that bothers me as much as the one-sided reaction. I just see a continuing pattern of indifference to questionable decisions from people in positions of authority. I see a lack of accountability from those in power who make these decisions. I see a turning a blind eye from the few who are knowledgeable on such abuses of power and a herd mindset of accepting this narrative from the masses who read comprised "news" reporting on such topics. While this recruiting "grievance" is penance compared to things in life that truly matter (Operation Fast and Furious, Benghazi, Citizens United, Trans-Pacific Free Trade Agreement, drone attack on a wedding in Yemini, and countless other recent examples around the world), it is like a said, a microcosm of society today.

I have no desire to make this political but it is the bigger picture that concerns me when I see people react to injustice with complete apathy. I have no agenda but simply to provide the alternate view in case there are others who think, "Why is no one else bothered by this?". Those people are not alone. And it's not a moral superiority complex nor a personal crusade. I don't care how others view me. I just want balance and accountability.

Reminded of a cartoon I saw a while back of some guy furiously typing on his computer and a background voice asking when he's coming to bed, and his response is something like "I can't come now, somebody said something wrong on the internet." Not saying that to ridicule, but a step back and a breath or two might be helpful.

A few quick thoughts:

VN is no more representative of the entirety of Tennessee fans than Facebook is of society in general. Wouldn't draw any conclusions about the magnitude of agreement with a sentiment based on what you read online.

I'd bet the extreme vast majority of Vol fans want recruits to be treated respectfully.

None of us really know exactly how Tim Hart's recruitment was handled. All of us have only heard an extremely brief and cryptic summary from a kid who is clearly angry.

If CBJ made a habit of treating kids poorly (lying, misrepresenting, breaking promises, etc.), it would become common knowledge quickly and would hurt Tennessee in the long run. That is common sense, and why I am inclined to be confident they are above board with kids the vast majority of the time and go out of their way to help in the rare exceptions (e.g., Ford).

:hi:

 

[WilliamDuVOL]

I want to take the physical embodiment of this thread, tie it in a burlap sack, beat it mercilessly with a club/bat/blunt object of some sort, set it on fire, then dump it in the ocean with an anchor tied to it.

This has been a doozy and quite the pain to navigate for any of the real info on this subject that, apparently, does not exist.