'16 TN LB Tim Hart (FORMER UT commit 6/26/15)

[bowlinggreenvol]

Your feelings hurt. Sometimes life isn't fair. You either stay down or you get back up. You don't have a clue about me nor do I you. I am sure you were everybody's all American and had your choice of schools.

I'm not the one criticizing how a HS kid reacts to the news cause I clearly have no idea what it's like to be in his shoes. But I'm sure you got a gitshirt and rolled on like the proud man you are.

 

[Jax_Vol]

Like dating, it is a two way street. If either side thinks another option might lead to an upgrade, welcome to life.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Just add it to your list of grievances.

What are you gonna do if one day you wakeup and can't sniff Butch's ******* any more? Blindly start sniffing his replacements?

 

[SergeantVol]

Because I criticize Butch's coaching decisions and coach speak means I'm hypocrite for criticizing this practice as well?

I haven't explicitly blamed Butch in this situation yet. In fact, I've said I hate that it's come to this everywhere and wish we could find a way to minimize coaches leaving players at the altar and vice versa.

I have a problem with you comparing a 17 year old human being to a lifeless commodity.

Apologies. I miss understood what you were saying. I don't like that recruits are treated as commodities either. Unfortunately, that is what this business has turned into. When coaches feel the pressure, their tactics change to ensure their longevity. It isn't pretty but it is fact.

 

[junder13]

No crying here. I don't put myself in position to rely on others. It'd be some real karma if the next time your child is wronged by a person in a position of power you get a nice little "STFU and take it" though :whistling:

 

[DaddyChad]

It sucks but it's part of the business.

Hart is pissed because he wanted to be part of this class. He was committed to the program and he got screwed. Don't be pissed at this kid because he did nothing wrong and the fact that he is so pissed off shows how much he was committed to the program.

As far as Jones, it sucks but it's his job to make these calls from time to time. You constantly evaluate and upgrade during the recruiting cycle. Feelings are going to get hurt, bridges are going to get burnt, especially when numbers are tight. Jones job is first and foremost a commitment to the kids on the roster and part of this program and building a winning football team if he feels prospect A gives him a better shot than prospect B of doing that then he has more an obligation to the many players and staff than to one single recruit. It sucks and I don't like it but it's part of the head coach's job.

 

[Big Orange Jeff]

Once again, for all of you bashing Butch and the staff for the Hart situation, please answer this question:

How do you know that Hart wasn't extended a conditional offer? What is your proof?

 

[junder13]

Did the blueshirt talk come from Hubbs, PFort, Callahan etc or a VN poster?

Probably all the above. Basically, everyone who is doing their best to save face for the irresponsible Jones in this case.

VQ has been the mouthpiece for Jones since being hired. That's why they get privileged information (practice updates more in-depth than other sports sources, dialogue with the "bobs", etc.). To take what they say about a recruit who's been replaced as the fully accurate story would be like taking the Warren Commission at its word without inquiring further. VQ may be completely honest in this scenario....but there's plenty here to suggest the blueshirt offer is an attempt at saving face. A coaching staff doesn't stop communicating with players they want on campus. Offering a blueshirt does not inhibit open communication. Pretty damning evidence, IMO.

Fans will change their tune too once they see the impact it has on recruiting in Memphis going forward. But only after it negatively impacts recruiting will they view this situation negatively. Ethics based on consequences only.

 

[southgatevol]

I'm not the one criticizing how a HS kid reacts to the news cause I clearly have no idea what it's like to be in his shoes. But I'm sure you got a gitshirt and rolled on like the proud man you are.

Your feelings hurt? I did not say anything negative about Mr. Hart. I hope he has a great career and makes a ton of money playing ball. Glad you see the need to be condescending and insulting to people on a message board. If they were recruiting people with bad attitudes you would be a 5-star+.

 

[junder13]

Once again, for all of you bashing Butch and the staff for the Hart situation, please answer this question:

How do you know that Hart wasn't extended a conditional offer? What is your proof?

How do you know he was? You have no proof either, so what's your point? It's a he-said, she-said scenario except one side will not answer questions directly but instead seep information through to the pay site(s) of choice (whether truth or fiction).

As usual, it's a controlled message you're believing. That's why Jones don't like the media discussing injuries. The staff wants total control on the perception of the team. Perhaps other staffs do it too to some extent but it doesn't make it right. If Jones was confident enough in his coaching abilities his control effort from day 1 wouldn't have been necessary. Perhaps Jones has improved enough as a head coach for it to no longer matter. He certainly won big in getting Shoop on board, so I'm more optimistic after that than before.

But just because VQ said it doesn't make it so.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Probably all the above. Basically, everyone who is doing their best to save face for the irresponsible Jones in this case.

VQ has been the mouthpiece for Jones since being hired. That's why they get privileged information (practice updates more in-depth than other sports sources, dialogue with the "bobs", etc.). To take what they say about a recruit who's been replaced as the fully accurate story would be like taking the Warren Commission at its word without inquiring further. VQ may be completely honest in this scenario....but there's plenty here to suggest the blueshirt offer is an attempt at saving face. A coaching staff doesn't stop communicating with players they want on campus. Offering a blueshirt does not inhibit open communication. Pretty damning evidence, IMO.

Fans will change their tune too once they see the impact it has on recruiting in Memphis going forward. But only after it negatively impacts recruiting will they view this situation negatively. Ethics based on consequences only.

Well I'm glad we've got Sherlock here to piece together such a compelling story based off of pure conjecture and guesswork then get on a moral high horse and tell all of us peasants how we should feel about it all (while throwing in a few irrelevant quotes and references to the CIA murdering JFK to exude the type of faux-intellectualism that is surely very attractive to all of his friend). :crazy:




















friend was not a typo.

 

[Big Orange Jeff]

How do you know he was? You have no proof either, so what's your point? It's a he-said, she-said scenario except one side will not answer questions directly but instead seep information through to the pay site(s) of choice (whether truth or fiction).

As usual, it's a controlled message you're believing. That's why Jones don't like the media discussing injuries. The staff wants total control on the perception of the team. Perhaps other staffs do it too to some extent but it doesn't make it right. If Jones was confident enough in his coaching abilities his control effort from day 1 wouldn't have been necessary. Perhaps Jones has improved enough as a head coach for it to no longer matter. He certainly won big in getting Shoop on board, so I'm more optimistic after that than before.

But just because VQ said it doesn't make it so.

You didn't answer the question, but I'll play along.

It's not a "he said, she said". It's a "he said..." Only one side of this story has come out, and you are the one using that to bash the staff. I have yet to assert, as fact, that the staff told him he only had a conditional offer.

There are many possibilities. Maybe he was told from the beginning that he may have to blueshirt if numbers got tight, which is supported by the fact that he never visited campus. Maybe Memphis started pressuring him to flip, he told the staff he wanted to visit, and they told him he'd lose his offer if he did. Maybe Butch decided that Hart didn't improve like they projected, and Shoop didn't see the potential Jancek did, and they decided to rescind or alter the offer.

It's likely we'll never get the true story in its entirety. Unless we do, all we can do is look at the facts as they are presented and make our own inferences. You've decided to use this as a stick with which to bash Butch and the staff. I've decided to keep an open mind.

I answered your question. Now, I ask again, what proof did you use to arrive at your conclusion?

 

[junder13]

Well I'm glad we've got Sherlock here to piece together such a compelling story based off of pure conjecture and guesswork then get on a moral high horse and tell all of us peasants how we should feel about it all (while throwing in a few irrelevant quotes and references to the CIA murdering JFK to exude the type of faux-intellectualism that is surely very attractive to all of his friend). :crazy:

friend was not a typo.

You assuming I have little or no friends has no bearing on the significance of the relationships I have in my life, and how many I do have. It's irrelevant anyway. Whether you like my analogies or find them to be ridiculous doesn't matter either. My point all along is that it is wrong to retract a publicly accepted commitment from a recruit near NSD. Most objective people would agree. Most comprised VN posters do not agree. They accept the tales of a blueshirt offer as being an acceptable middle ground. As stated previously, I am most bothered by the people (like you) that accept it at face value as "part of recruiting".

You resort to statements like "moral high horse", "us peasants", "faux intellectualism"....yet I haven't said anything about you specifically, nor made any claims to intelligence or superiority. When you (and others) can't properly argue a point, I suppose resorting to discrediting the other point (in this case with meaningless labels) is the only option left.

 

[junder13]

You didn't answer the question, but I'll play along.

It's not a "he said, she said". It's a "he said..." Only one side of this story has come out, and you are the one using that to bash the staff. I have yet to assert, as fact, that the staff told him he only had a conditional offer.

There are many possibilities. Maybe he was told from the beginning that he may have to blueshirt if numbers got tight, which is supported by the fact that he never visited campus. Maybe Memphis started pressuring him to flip, he told the staff he wanted to visit, and they told him he'd lose his offer if he did. Maybe Butch decided that Hart didn't improve like they projected, and Shoop didn't see the potential Jancek did, and they decided to rescind or alter the offer.

It's likely we'll never get the true story in its entirety. Unless we do, all we can do is look at the facts as they are presented and make our own inferences. You've decided to use this as a stick with which to bash Butch and the staff. I've decided to keep an open mind.

I answered your question. Now, I ask again, what proof did you use to arrive at your conclusion?

All of your points are fair but you are still conjecturing just like you are accusing me of doing. And, yes, the other side has made an assertion -- a blueshirt was offered according to VQ. Unless they are purely conjecturing than that information was leaked to them by people in the know. Otherwise they would be comprising their position with the staff as media/reporters. As stated earlier, there appears to have been little to no communication between the two sides for quite some time, which is not the course a staff would take with a prospect they wanted on campus. Therefore, I am skeptical they acted responsibly in rescinding his offer two weeks before NSD. What evidence do you have for any of your conjectures?

 

[southgatevol]

All of your points are fair but you are still conjecturing just like you are accusing me of doing. And, yes, the other side has made an assertion -- a blueshirt was offered according to VQ. Unless they are purely conjecturing than that information was leaked to them by people in the know. Otherwise they would be comprising their position with the staff as media/reporters. As stated earlier, there appears to have been little to no communication between the two sides for quite some time, which is not the course a staff would take with a prospect they wanted on campus. Therefore, I am skeptical they acted responsibly in rescinding his offer two weeks before NSD. What evidence do you have for any of your conjectures?

At this point what difference does it make????

 

[Volnukem]

All of your points are fair but you are still conjecturing just like you are accusing me of doing. And, yes, the other side has made an assertion -- a blueshirt was offered according to VQ. Unless they are purely conjecturing than that information was leaked to them by people in the know. Otherwise they would be comprising their position with the staff as media/reporters. As stated earlier, there appears to have been little to no communication between the two sides for quite some time, which is not the course a staff would take with a prospect they wanted on campus. Therefore, I am skeptical they acted responsibly in rescinding his offer two weeks before NSD. What evidence do you have for any of your conjectures?

You see the word maybe in his sentences, right? He isn't asserting those statements as fact like you are, but offering them as alternative explanations. His point is that you are using a limited amount of information and a generous amount of conjecture to bash the staff.

 

[Nuctech777]

How does this not have more likes? This thread is all to hell

 

[JamesBenUT]

Siap

on its face it does give tennessee a black eye. To compound matters, because of ncaa recruiting rules, tennessee is unable to respond to hart's twitter rant. Not sure there would be anything gained even if tennessee could or would respond.

To be fair though, it was not tennessee who cut hart loose. Think about it. Memphis is city tennessee wants to recruit. Heck, tennessee hosts a recruiting celebration in memphis after every recruiting cycle ends. The event is always sold out. Virtually certain the event will be sold out this year as well.

Tennessee wanted hart. What tennessee asked him to do is to delay his enrollment to tennessee by one semester from june until august. No paying his way or any of that nonsense. Come august he would go on full scholarship. He would only pay his own way (for the summer 2016 semester) if he chose to begin school in june not august. Makes a lot sense for tennessee and in my opinion it makes sense for the prospect. Tennessee can free up a spot in the 2016 class to use for an impact prospect at wide receiver or defensive line for instance that could help this upcoming season. Hart, a linebacker, was destined to redshirt next season. Tennessee has quality depth at linebacker. He would, in all likelihood, redshirt next season regardless of whether he entered school in june or august and play in 2017.

- x

 

[Vol Main]

Thanks to Tim Hart for his sincere interest in playing for Tennessee. I'm sorry this happened. Coaches and players do these things. No excuses. It flat out sucks.

 

[CrunchingTheVolz]

So X read on VN where someone claimed Hart was offered a blue shirt and explained what a blue shirt is in his own article. Top notch.

 

[junder13]

You see the word maybe in his sentences, right? He isn't asserting those statements as fact like you are, but offering them as alternative explanations. His point is that you are using a limited amount of information and a generous amount of conjecture to bash the staff.

And he (and presumably you) are using assumptions to support the staff.

At least my "conjecture" is based on a plethora of circumstantial evidence (past indiscretions, little or no communication in months leading up to decision, Hart's word, etc.). VQ has even questioned whether Hart would be a part of the class several months ago. There's enough evidence (over the last 3 years and last 3 months) to paint an unflattering picture of this and similar situations. Yet, because you and others can throw out possible "alternative explanations" than we should all just ignore it and accept it as "part of recruiting"? Not me.

I could win the lottery but since that's not my current reality the possibility carries no meaning. And the possibility of winning the powerball doesn't mean I should put all my money into buying tickets. These possible scenarios hold no value in real life because we don't know them to be true. We can only value what we know or think we know....not meaningless hypotheticals.

 

[JacketVol]

If he was offered a blueshirt, then it is crazy that he reacted on social media like he did. Plenty of people act like idiots on social media and not just kids. It is not a good place to air things even if you are wronged about something. If he wanted to play at UT, then he should have seen a two month delay as not that big a deal. Heck, as the song used to go:

SCHOOL'S OUT FOR SUMMER!

 

[bignewt]

Cant wait for this exact same thing to happen next year around this time, just like last year and the year before that...

 

[ksgovols]

Yeah, this is not going anywhere.

You guys just figuring out that recruiting is nasty business? It cuts both ways. Don't hold a staff whose livelihood depends on performance on the field to their word with an 85 schollie limit if a better option at at position comes along. Especially when the kid might flip anyway if the right offer came along from somewhere else.

Butch's job is to recruit the very best student-athletes that he can, within the rules, to play football for the university that's signing his significant paycheck.

Recruits job is to get the very best DI offer that his abilities and limitations allow him to sign.

It's business.

 

[jordan4vols]

So X read on VN where someone claimed Hart was offered a blue shirt and explained what a blue shirt is in his own article. Top notch.

Or where Paul Fortenberry said he was offered a blue shirt. Little bit more than "volnation poster"