'16 TN LB Tim Hart (FORMER UT commit 6/26/15)

#826
#826
Darth_Shiveman said:
Joe Young hasn't done too badly for himself either.
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The more I think about it, the more I realize it's not comparable. Hart's commitment was accepted well in advance of NSD. Jashon Robertson was committed to Vandy until Franklin left for PSU a few weeks before NSD two years ago. At that point in time, we pretty much had a full class already (last two NSD have been uneventful for a reason). So if Robertson decided to switch to UT he didn't have an option but to blueshirt. Joe Young is also different because he did not have offers from P5 schools and so it was go to a school like Richmond on scholarship, or take a chance and be awarded a scholarship as promised by the coaching staff in the SEC. He also would not have had that option had the RB from LA accepted a last minute blueshirt offer (he chose A&M instead).

Both your examples are not comparable to a player who's commitment is accepted well ahead of NSD only to then have it reneged and replaced with a blueshirt option a few weeks before NSD.

But, yes, blueshirts can be successful in the program it would appear. Doesn't make it acceptable to replace a scholarship offer with a blueshirt at the 11th hour though.
 
#827
#827
junder13 said:
Sure it is, if you accept the "other side of the story": that UT was offering a blue shirt option because the coaches truly wanted Hart to be a contributing member of the team but unexpectedly ran out of room in the class (happens every year, by the way). How'd that work out for Jacquez Bruce and the TE from midstate last year? At least one of them has detoured to JUCO for two years in their life as a result (TE). And Bruce's story is a cautionary tale (supposedly stepping unceremoniously on a power T in a locker room, being body slammed as a result, and then being removed from the program). Justin Martin probably did worse than Bruce (arguing with the head coach in a team-wide meeting) before ever practicing. Yet, Martin was a scholarship player who almost certainly would (and did) contribute, and so all was quickly forgiven. There is obviously a double standard for blue shirts, and they do not experience the same treatment as scholarship players. Even if Hart did get a blue shirt offer (which is suspect), that isn't a good enough option to make the situation acceptable.

My point: the blue shirt offer is a façade for fans to believe as an acceptable option for recruits who are being replaced so that they can ignore the inconvenient reality of the situation, all in the name of fandom.
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Nm...already addressed
 
#828
#828
junder13 said:
The more I think about it, the more I realize it's not comparable. Hart's commitment was accepted well in advance of NSD. Jashon Robertson was committed to Vandy until Franklin left for PSU a few weeks before NSD two years ago. At that point in time, we pretty much had a full class already (last two NSD have been uneventful for a reason). So if Robertson decided to switch to UT he didn't have an option but to blueshirt. Joe Young is also different because he did not have offers from P5 schools and so it was go to a school like Richmond on scholarship, or take a chance and be awarded a scholarship as promised by the coaching staff in the SEC. He also would not have had that option had the RB from LA accepted a last minute blueshirt offer (he chose A&M instead).

Both your examples are not comparable to a player who's commitment is accepted well ahead of NSD only to then have it reneged and replaced with a blueshirt option a few weeks before NSD.

But, yes, blueshirts can be successful in the program it would appear. Doesn't make it acceptable to replace a scholarship offer with a blueshirt at the 11th hour though.
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It's a valid scholarship...pays for an education...cuts on your injustice points.
 
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#829
#829
Bizarre discussion. Blue shirts are scholarship players. Kinda hard for that to be a facade for dastardly, immoral college recruiting.
 
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#830
#830
munsterlander said:
Bizarre discussion. Blue shirts are scholarship players. Kinda hard for that to be a facade for dastardly, immoral college recruiting.
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Not really a "discussion". More a street preacher on bath salts and his captive audience. :)
 
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#831
#831
Can't remember who it was, but somewhere over the past 3-4 years (maybe Butch's first full recruiting class?) we had someone that happily took a blueshirt in order to help the team pull in somebody else. All vol. Guy was celebrated.
 
#832
#832
butchna said:
No...he was one of those 3 stars with multiple offers. We've cut some of those loose in the past and lost others. Butch gets credit for recognizing that talent and re-landing it...because it was gone.
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I'm glad he recognized what numerous other SEC schools already saw.
 
#833
#833
The only difference between a blue-shirt and a normal recruits is OV's and in-homes. After NSD, there is literally no difference between their experiences. Scholarship is granted first day of Fall classes. I'm not sure why some are painting it as a slight. You could make that argument for a gray-shirt, but not a blue-shirt.
 
#835
#835
SergeantVol said:
It's a business folks. How many of you invest into the stock market? Same principle. You buy based on the future development and performance of the stock. What do you do when the stock doesn't perform or develop the way you anticipate? Do you feel beholden to the stock since you bought it? CBJ is conducting his business. His livelihood is tied to his performance. He is trying to squeeze every advantage out he can. It's not like 5* are beating down our doors especially considering that we are coming out of one of the worst stretches in program history. He isn't doing anything other coaches haven't done. We just hear about it more because we are Vol fans who follow Vol sites. I swear some of y'all can be happy unless you are miserable.
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What's sad is you actually believe this BS. HS football players are now a commodity or stock and nothing more. No feelings or emotions involved and if they are then man up.
 
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#836
#836
BondJamesBond said:
Okay, at what point should coaches quit assessing a players potential? Four weeks? Eight? When does this change meet the moral test of right or wrong? No, it isn't ideal, but ideal ended sometime along the line and acknowledging it isn't the root of the problem.
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HS football season has been over for 6 weeks or more. That would've given him 2 months to start talking to people.
 
#837
#837
Volnukem said:
The only difference between a blue-shirt and a normal recruits is OV's and in-homes. After NSD, there is literally no difference between their experiences. Scholarship is granted first day of Fall classes. I'm not sure why some are painting it as a slight. You could make that argument for a gray-shirt, but not a blue-shirt.
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Are you trying to tell us that Hurd and Robertson are getting the same education? :aggressive:

Kill that one. Let that one live. Put a plastic bag on that one's head.

-Pol Pot
 
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#838
#838
bowlinggreenvol said:
What's sad is you actually believe this BS. HS football players are now a commodity or stock and nothing more. No feelings or emotions involved and if they are then man up.
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It may be unfortunate, but it's reality. Butch can be a great guy and mold 3 star players into great young men, but if he doesn't win 10 games and the SEC, Butch will have to mold those great young men elsewhere.

The same posters who are most critical of a coach for rescinding a scholly late from a marginal player, will also be the ones who are calling for said coach's job if he loses games - even if he has less talent than the opponent. Can't have it both ways.
 
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#839
#839
junder13 said:
The more I think about it, the more I realize it's not comparable. Hart's commitment was accepted well in advance of NSD. Jashon Robertson was committed to Vandy until Franklin left for PSU a few weeks before NSD two years ago. At that point in time, we pretty much had a full class already (last two NSD have been uneventful for a reason). So if Robertson decided to switch to UT he didn't have an option but to blueshirt. Joe Young is also different because he did not have offers from P5 schools and so it was go to a school like Richmond on scholarship, or take a chance and be awarded a scholarship as promised by the coaching staff in the SEC. He also would not have had that option had the RB from LA accepted a last minute blueshirt offer (he chose A&M instead).

Both your examples are not comparable to a player who's commitment is accepted well ahead of NSD only to then have it reneged and replaced with a blueshirt option a few weeks before NSD.

But, yes, blueshirts can be successful in the program it would appear. Doesn't make it acceptable to replace a scholarship offer with a blueshirt at the 11th hour though.
Click to expand...
A blueshirt offer is a scholarship offer.

In waking a tiger, use a long stick.
-Mao Zedong
 
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#841
#841
I am going to give some unrelated personal experience with this against my better judgment.

Everybody is probably aware that coaches offer recruits based on system/scheme and the upside of said recruit in fitting into them. They bet on the potential of the upside being realized when they offer. The interviews and relationships with the player, HS and intended college coaches, family members, etc. all play a part. It may be all systems go as a junior. So they offer. Then various factors change. It is unfortunate for all parties, not just the player and families. But when it becomes obvious there is minimal chance of success, it is best to pull the plug. Sometimes that happens earlier, sometimes it is later.

For me with UT in the early 70's it was later. I loved UT football all my life before and I have loved it after even though it did not work out for me. They did offer the equivalent of a PWO back then - no blue shirts, but I chose to go a different route (baseball) with a different school. I was disappointed and moved on to other options. However, I would never dream to bad mouth the coaches for their decision because I was honest about who I was and how I might fit into their and other programs in the SEC. In my case I guess I could have had the last laugh as the moving van pulled up to Bill Battle's door some time later. However, i didn't because it meant UT football was not doing well.

That's the only advice I would offer young Mr. Hart. Get real about yourself. The other coaches that are recruiting you are listening and may be turned off by your comments. We did not have social media and sports media fanning the flames of recruiting news back then, so it is especially important now to just have some class, keep quiet, and change your expectations in order to find success. I wish him good luck and hope he can turn his disappointment into a flame that ignites him to great achievements.
 
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#842
#842
bowlinggreenvol said:
What's sad is you actually believe this BS. HS football players are now a commodity or stock and nothing more. No feelings or emotions involved and if they are then man up.
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Blame the profession. When you have rabid fans that demand your dismissal for underperforming, you tend to get results like this. I am pretty sure that you have been critical of CBJ in many areas. Therefore, you are a hypocrite. If you can't attach emotion to a coach and forgive his shortcomings as a coach (i.e. decision making process), then why do you expect different treatment to a recruit? An offer is typically extended based on the promise of development. When that potential is not realized, the interested parties part ways.
 
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#843
#843
junder13 said:
Sure it is, if you accept the "other side of the story": that UT was offering a blue shirt option because the coaches truly wanted Hart to be a contributing member of the team but unexpectedly ran out of room in the class (happens every year, by the way). How'd that work out for Jacquez Bruce and the TE from midstate last year? At least one of them has detoured to JUCO for two years in their life as a result (TE). And Bruce's story is a cautionary tale (supposedly stepping unceremoniously on a power T in a locker room, being body slammed as a result, and then being removed from the program). Justin Martin probably did worse than Bruce (arguing with the head coach in a team-wide meeting) before ever practicing. Yet, Martin was a scholarship player who almost certainly would (and did) contribute, and so all was quickly forgiven. There is obviously a double standard for blue shirts, and they do not experience the same treatment as scholarship players. Even if Hart did get a blue shirt offer (which is suspect), that isn't a good enough option to make the situation acceptable.

My point: the blue shirt offer is a façade for fans to believe as an acceptable option for recruits who are being replaced so that they can ignore the inconvenient reality of the situation, all in the name of fandom.
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tbss.gif
 
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#844
#844
WildTurkey said:
It may be unfortunate, but it's reality. Butch can be a great guy and mold 3 star players into great young men, but if he doesn't win 10 games and the SEC, Butch will have to mold those great young men elsewhere.

The same posters who are most critical of a coach for rescinding a scholly late from a marginal player, will also be the ones who are calling for said coach's job if he loses games - even if he has less talent than the opponent. Can't have it both ways.
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Comparing a kid to buying a stock is not reality and a pretty pathetic example. My issue with Sargeant is his example and acting like there shouldn't be emotions involved.
 
#847
#847
SergeantVol said:
Blame the profession. When you have rabid fans that demand your dismissal for underperforming, you tend to get results like this. I am pretty sure that you have been critical of CBJ in many areas. Therefore, you are a hypocrite. If you can't attach emotion to a coach and forgive his shortcomings as a coach (i.e. decision making process), then why do you expect different treatment to a recruit? An offer is typically extended based on the promise of development. When that potential is not realized, the interested parties part ways.
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Because I criticize Butch's coaching decisions and coach speak means I'm hypocrite for criticizing this practice as well?

I haven't explicitly blamed Butch in this situation yet. In fact, I've said I hate that it's come to this everywhere and wish we could find a way to minimize coaches leaving players at the altar and vice versa.

I have a problem with you comparing a 17 year old human being to a lifeless commodity.
 
#850
#850
bowlinggreenvol said:
Because I criticize Butch's coaching decisions and coach speak means I'm hypocrite for criticizing this practice as well?

I haven't explicitly blamed Butch in this situation yet. In fact, I've said I hate that it's come to this everywhere and wish we could find a way to minimize coaches leaving players at the altar and vice versa.

I have a problem with you comparing a 17 year old human being to a lifeless commodity.
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Just add it to your list of grievances.
 

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