'17 GA CB/S Shawn Shamburger (UT signee)

#176
#176
sjt18 said:
This kid may walk on water.... but offering Cam Sutton is a stretch. Which other 3* has the staff picked up who has worked out? CB is a MAJOR weakness right now being manned by other 3* that we convinced ourselves in previous years were "underrated".
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My point isn't limited to CB recruiting, and further, my point is just referring to CFB recruiting in general, player development non-inclusive.

When Tennessee offered Christmas-Giles last cycle, the overriding opinion was disgust from our fan base. To reiterate my point, people seek their prospect validations from websites who have been known to cater to larger fan bases for monetary purposes over the likes of Power 5 head coaches who have jobs and lifestyles on the line. We completely ignore the fact that these websites base a lot of their ratings on what the Alabama's and the Ohio State's of the world are doing. We saw this very thing happen with Shamburger's rating. Tennessee and Ole Miss offer this weekend, and the kid receives an immediate ranking bump. Watch what happens as more offers continue to roll in.
 
#177
#177
sjt is on fire - and right. Especially about the inconsistency on here with posters.

There are two aspects as as he correctly points out - analysis of the recruit and subsequent player development. Butch & staff seem to be good at the former since many of the guys they are in on early end up blowing up on the recruiting scene as the season goes on. That is all well and good, but when you have whole position groups filled with those guys and performing at mid-level SEC and lower, your hidden gem philosophy of recruiting will not work at the level everybody is seeking. If you are able to load up with 4 and 5* guys, many of them will be good to great players regardless of coaching abilities and compensate. All of that shows in the W/L column in the SEC.
 
#178
#178
By the way, the proof of the failure of the finding enough hidden gems that blow up and are wonderful enough to win at a high level was our previous HC, who was also bringing in those guys by the dozens.
 
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#180
#180
Vols4us said:
By the way, the proof of the failure of the finding enough hidden gems that blow up and are wonderful enough to win at a high level was our previous HC, who was also bringing in those guys by the dozens.
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I think we all know that our coaches aren't shooting for the All-Gem recruiting class. This class started with 2 5-star commits, and unfortunately, those guys are headed elsewhere. When you want to go head to head with the big boys, you're going to lose way more often than you win. Doesn't mean you pack it up and try again next year and skip taking a class. It just means you go to your camp evaluations. It means you uncover the senior film of the late bloomers. You trust your background work and hope you find the next big thing that went overlooked for whatever reason.
 
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#183
#183
bignewt said:
its all BS.
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Two star usually means they haven't evaluated the player yet. He commits to a school which gives Rivals a reason to evaluate the player. They watch a few minutes of film, check his offer list and slap a 5.6 3 star on him. It's science.
 
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#184
#184
Sandman 423 said:
I think that sjt's point is that while Cam and John may very well be better than their star ranking says, How can you compete with the Alabama's, Ohio St's of the world when they have soooooooo many higher ranked players.

I guarantee you that a team full of 5 stars will have more difference makers than a team full of 3 stars with the occasional Cam Sutton type player.
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You can compete with them but you have to do two things very, very consistently. You have to find underrated or "project" players VERY consistently and across all position groups. More importantly, you have to out-develop and out-coach other programs. Oregon's rise was because they did it to USC and the rest of the Pac 10/12. Patterson lifted TCU by doing it. Petrino is doing it at L'ville.

It does happen. Jones just doesn't seem to be doing it.
 
#186
#186
PS- I hope this kid is everything we've ever dreamed... I hope they all are. But you cannot claim that Jones' 3* have been on average anything but 3* so far.

Sutton's class included 5 4* players and 17 2/3* players. Of those lower players, only 3 have really played like they were underrated: Dobbs (maybe), Vereen, and Sutton. Five others have made some contributions or started. The other 9 either didn't contribute or else didn't stick with the program.

FWIW, only two of the 5 4* players came close to living up to their hype.
 
#188
#188
sjt18 said:
PS- I hope this kid is everything we've ever dreamed... I hope they all are. But you cannot claim that Jones' 3* have been on average anything but 3* so far.

Sutton's class included 5 4* players and 17 2/3* players. Of those lower players, only 3 have really played like they were underrated: Dobbs (maybe), Vereen, and Sutton. Five others have made some contributions or started. The other 9 either didn't contribute or else didn't stick with the program.

FWIW, only two of the 5 4* players came close to living up to their hype.
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Weisman and Vickers I'd say have outperformed their ranking.
 
#189
#189
Edited. Gonna bring this post to the main thread since it has little to do with Shamburger.
 
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#193
#193
BigOrangeTrain said:
And its tiresome
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What's wrong with a poster watching a kid's film and calling him a gamer?

A lot of people read/post on this board. You'll always have people who like any given recruit. That's the brilliance of having thousands of opinions on this board.
 
#195
#195
31VFL said:
Weisman and Vickers I'd say have outperformed their ranking.
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That's debatable. They've started but have they really played like anything but 3* players? Both will probably get UFA tryouts. Neither is likely to be drafted.
 
#196
#196
SigNu_VolFan said:
What's wrong with a poster watching a kid's film and calling him a gamer?
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I don't think this is necessarily the response you're looking for.... but I would say it is this.

All of these highlight clips are just that, highlights. So when someone here points to that as proof.... They're pointing to a marketing presentation to prove the quality of something.

Have you ever seen an accurate fast food commercial? No. The sandwich you usually get is smashed almost flat with the meat often halfway off the bun. The people eating those sandwiches are almost always thin, healthy, happy, attractive, friendly, sexy,.....

These highlight videos show what the player and his helpers want people to see to get him the best offer possible.

MOST of the time with higher rated players, a kid is special enough for the recruiting sites to either see them in person or watch whole games. With the lower rated kids, coaches and their paid recruiting services look for players they can develop based on all of their film plus any other info they can gather.

Bottom line. The videos available to us do not provide even CLOSE to a basis for declaring a kid underrated.
 
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#198
#198
Callahan has hinted multiple times that it will be a dogfight to hold on to him by NSD. Apparently our staff expects him to blow up and have several schools trying to to take him away.
 
#199
#199
sjt18 said:
I don't think this is necessarily the response you're looking for.... but I would say it is this.

All of these highlight clips are just that, highlights. So when someone here points to that as proof.... They're pointing to a marketing presentation to prove the quality of something.

Have you ever seen an accurate fast food commercial? No. The sandwich you usually get is smashed almost flat with the meat often halfway off the bun. The people eating those sandwiches are almost always thin, healthy, happy, attractive, friendly, sexy,.....

These highlight videos show what the player and his helpers want people to see to get him the best offer possible.

MOST of the time with higher rated players, a kid is special enough for the recruiting sites to either see them in person or watch whole games. With the lower rated kids, coaches and their paid recruiting services look for players they can develop based on all of their film plus any other info they can gather.

Bottom line. The videos available to us do not provide even CLOSE to a basis for declaring a kid underrated.
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I'm not looking for any response in particular. I just think it's weird to call someone's viewpoint tiresome when we're all armchair recruiting coordinators. It's no more tiresome than someone saying a kid sucks because of his 2-star Rivals rating.

I will say this: you can't have a highlight film without creating highlights on the playing field. It just so happens that Sham is creating his highlights against the best of the best in Georgia. It's not a reach for a fan to like what he/she is seeing on the tape. That's all I'm saying.
 
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