'17 TN OL/DT Trey Smith (UT commit 12/6/2016)

#526
#526
bignewt said:
Don't agree. UT has always built their teams with out of state talent. You get the best, regardless of zip code. Most kids want to leave whatever state they are in to go to college, that's reality. I know it may be a controversial opinion but its the poorer states where the kids stay close to home, hence the LA and MS kids staying close.
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What UT has "always" done is irrelevant. Traditionally, TN has never had this much instate talent. Back in the day, you'd get 1 or 2 elite guys per year in TN. Now it's not uncommon to see 5-10. As the talent instate grows, it's much more important for UT to be the #1 school for those guys.
 
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#528
#528
Probably_in_Class said:
What UT has "always" done is irrelevant. Traditionally, TN has never had this much instate talent. Back in the day, you'd get 1 or 2 elite guys per year in TN. Now it's not uncommon to see 5-10. As the talent instate grows, it's much more important for UT to be the #1 school for those guys.
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But why is that? I could see your point if there was less talent in other states but there is no decline in Georgia, Florida, Virginia etc. I just don't see why it matters where a kid is from. What matters is that they give their all for Tennessee TODAY.
 
#529
#529
bignewt said:
Don't agree. UT has always built their teams with out of state talent. You get the best, regardless of zip code. Most kids want to leave whatever state they are in to go to college, that's reality. I know it may be a controversial opinion but its the poorer states where the kids stay close to home, hence the LA and MS kids staying close.
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1. UT has always built their teams with out-of-state talent because historically, Tennessee has not been an annually talent-rich state. That has begun to change recently.

2. The idea that most kids want to leave their state for college is quite the blanket statement. And it's the poorer states? It's true LA and MS keep a lot of instate talent, but so do Texas, Ohio, California, and Florida. Hardly what I call poorer states.

I do agree that Tennessee should be recruiting the best talent regardless of zip code, but I think your reasoning is based on a lot of generalities.
 
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#530
#530
Generalities are what boards are for! Also those other states you listed are huge(at least Texas and Cali) so kids can get away from their families and still technically be "in-state." I would think there are quite a few Florida and Ohio kids that leave the state. SO yes go after the best. If highly ranked TN kids want to play at UT, that is awesome but not much more awesome than any other highly ranked kid.
 
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#531
#531
bignewt said:
Don't agree. UT has always built their teams with out of state talent. You get the best, regardless of zip code. Most kids want to leave whatever state they are in to go to college, that's reality. I know it may be a controversial opinion but its the poorer states where the kids stay close to home, hence the LA and MS kids staying close.
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I don't know why this is so hard for you. We all want to recruit nationally and get the best recruits period. However, having any top tier talent in your state and locking that talent up is a huge advantage. It lets us use that money and time to recruit those out of state talents you love so much. That's why states that produce a lot of talent are always being talked about as having an advantage. It's always listed as a reason to take a HC job at that school. Home state talent is, generally speaking, closer and easier to recruit. If we can produce quality, loyal, Tennessee recruits consistently and lock that up every year early, it helps in recruiting all around. That's why everyone wants to get this talent and wants them early. This is a fact of recruiting. That's why all the teams that have huge instate taken are always near or in the top 5-10 in recruiting every year. It's much easier with some good instate talent. We finally are producing more, which will help overall, but you don't want it or think that what people are saying is only recruit Tennessee players. That's simply not the case, once again, people are saying "we need this instate talent" and " we need to lock the instate talent up soon" for the reasons I mentioned before. Not because we don't want great players from other states. We have some of the top rated guys in the nation in state now. We need them because they are top talents, instate, and will help recruiting if we lock them up early.
 
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#532
#532
Its not hard for me fella, I am just tired of everyone freaking out about Tennessee high school kids looking at leaving the state. I get the advantages that in a perfect world would make the recruiting job easier. But tt happens in every state. Depending on in-state talent is not the only way to build a champion...that is all I am saying.

Maybe the problem is that we have never really had elite in-state talent before so everyone is suddenly blinded by it and are clinging on for dear life.
 
#533
#533
bignewt said:
But why is that? I could see your point if there was less talent in other states but there is no decline in Georgia, Florida, Virginia etc. I just don't see why it matters where a kid is from. What matters is that they give their all for Tennessee TODAY.
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Because a kid in Tampa or Atlanta is going to have significantly more exposure to UF or UGA than to UT during his youth. It's only natural more of those kids would be inclined to favor UF or UGA respectively. In the same light, Nashville kids should be inclined to lean towards UT. The idea behind locking down instate recruits is that, in theory, those elite guys should be lowhanging fruit.

Of course we're always going to battle for the elite out of GA, FL, etc, but it's vital for a program to have a pipeline for guys it just naturally gets each cycle. We need to lock up those elite guys, because if you can't even convince guys who live 100 miles from campus to come to your school, what makes you think guys who are 1000 miles away will want to?
 
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#534
#534
bignewt said:
Its not hard for me fella, I am just tired of everyone freaking out about Tennessee high school kids looking at leaving the state. I get the advantages that in a perfect world would make the recruiting job easier. But tt happens in every state. Depending on in-state talent is not the only way to build a champion...that is all I am saying.

Maybe the problem is that we have never really had elite in-state talent before so everyone is suddenly blinded by it and are clinging on for dear life.
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Nobody said it's the only way to build a team....You creating a problem that doesn't exist. If you understand the huge advantages that instate recruiting brings then what's the problem? Nobody is blinded.... If we suddenly have some instate talent, wouldn't we won't to take advantage of it? Nobody is clinging for dear life, it a great thing and we want to take advantage of it and soon.
 
#535
#535
bignewt said:
Its not hard for me fella, I am just tired of everyone freaking out about Tennessee high school kids looking at leaving the state. I get the advantages that in a perfect world would make the recruiting job easier. But tt happens in every state. Depending on in-state talent is not the only way to build a champion...that is all I am saying.

Maybe the problem is that we have never really had elite in-state talent before so everyone is suddenly blinded by it and are clinging on for dear life.
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No, it's not that. It's that the elite programs keep a large portion of elite talent instate. If we want to return to the elite, we need to keep a large portion of our elite instate talent. It's that simple.
 
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#537
#537
Probably_in_Class said:
No, it's not that. It's that the elite programs keep a large portion of elite talent instate. If we want to return to the elite, we need to keep a large portion of our elite instate talent. It's that simple.
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He said he understands this so I dont know what the problem is here.... Anyway this has always been a knock on TN and the head coaching job. That we don't have instate talent. Therefore you have to work even harder in recruiting and rely on out of state talent too much, which is far more unpredictable and harder to recruit.
We finally get some consistent top talent instate and bignewt doesn't know why we want it and want it badly. This is one argument I never thought I'd see on VN.
 
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#539
#539
Probably_in_Class said:
What UT has "always" done is irrelevant. Traditionally, TN has never had this much instate talent. Back in the day, you'd get 1 or 2 elite guys per year in TN. Now it's not uncommon to see 5-10. As the talent instate grows, it's much more important for UT to be the #1 school for those guys.
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To your point, Doug Mathews has said each of the last two weeks on his Big Orange Sunday show, that come NSD 2017, to expect Tennessee to sign 8-11 in state players. No hemming and hawing, no equivocation, no doubt according to him....we sign 8-11 Tennessee kids this year, and that's something that we wouldn't have imagined doing here even 4-5 years ago.
 
#541
#541
Well, just to throw some gasoline on a dwindling fire... do you question Josh Dobbs's commitment to the Vols? He isn't from Tennessee. Neither are Kahlil MacKenzie, or Alvin Kamara or... how many dozen could we name? They aren't from Tennessee, but I don't question their commitment to the team. Why would anyone think they give less effort than a local kid?
 
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#542
#542
Probably_in_Class said:
No, it's not that. It's that the elite programs keep a large portion of elite talent instate. If we want to return to the elite, we need to keep a large portion of our elite instate talent. It's that simple.
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We can't assume the trappings and status of an elite program until we establish ourselves as such. This is a unique time in Tennessee recruiting. Back when we had our pick, there were slimmer pickings. Now talent has begin flooding into the state but with parents that have followed other programs. Today's kids grew up when we were second run. Have an epic season and continue the pecking order that Butch has established, and the Tennessee names like Hurd,Barnett and JRM (hopefully Gaulden and Kelly) will sound that horn for future Tennessee stars to aspire to. Just can't expect for that to have already happened yesterday.
 
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#543
#543
butchna said:
We can't assume the trappings and status of an elite program until we establish ourselves as such. This is a unique time in Tennessee recruiting. Back when we had our pick, there were slimmer pickings. Now talent has begin flooding into the state but with parents that have followed other programs. Today's kids grew up when we were second run. Have an epic season and continue the pecking order that Butch has established, and the Tennessee names like Hurd,Barnett and JRM (hopefully Gaulden and Kelly) will sound that horn for future Tennessee stars to aspire to. Just can't expect for that to have already happened yesterday.
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Just win Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#544
#544
Probably_in_Class said:
The idea is that instate kids should be more naturally inclined to go to the home school. You certainly don't want every guy who is willing to sign up, but you do want it to be a forgone conclusion that the elite guys in TN just always go to UT. Think LSU, they own the state of LA and almost always get the top guys out of their home state. While TN doesn't produce an entire team's worth of SEC talent, the top guys should be heading straight to UT 9 times out of 10.
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But that wasn't always the case. Before Saban, LSU was always losing out on their best players to out of state schools. Did you know Ed Reed (the legendary Miami player) was from Louisiana?

Now all the top kids in Louisiana dream to play for LSU. Why do you think that is the case? Maybe it's because they've been watching LSU dominate their entire childhood?

That is why this year is so important for the Vols. Winning a national title could catapult instate recruiting like it did for LSU after Saban win his first title.
 
#545
#545
With the ability to have satellite camps it will give the UT coaching staff a chance to build relationships with kids in different areas of the state. Plant the seed early and watch it grow, I think this is just as important as winning games when it comes to recruiting
 
#546
#546
People also tend to overlook one of the reasons why TN has all of a sudden (last 3 yrs or so) started putting out more talent.

Just because these kids have TN beside their name in a thread does not mean they were born here. Middle TN is one of the fastest growing areas in the country. We have become the melting pot of America. A lot of these guys grew up fans of other teams because their families (or they themselves) were fans of those teams because they lived in those states. They didn't become TN fans just because they moved here.
 
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#547
#547
BaldBiker said:
People also tend to overlook one of the reasons why TN has all of a sudden (last 3 yrs or so) started putting out more talent.

Just because these kids have TN beside their name in a thread does not mean they were born here. Middle TN is one of the fastest growing areas in the country. We have become the melting pot of America. A lot of these guys grew up fans of other teams because their families (or they themselves) were fans of those teams because they lived in those states. They didn't become TN fans just because they moved here.
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Yeah, not to mention the Ole Miss/Bama influence in Middle and West TN is significant
 
#548
#548
bignewt said:
Don't agree. UT has always built their teams with out of state talent. You get the best, regardless of zip code. Most kids want to leave whatever state they are in to go to college, that's reality. I know it may be a controversial opinion but its the poorer states where the kids stay close to home, hence the LA and MS kids staying close.
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Not sure I agree on this. Would be willing to bet that a lot of top OH recruits have gone to Ostate through the years. And in most states this likely is the norm. I think UT is relative unique in that historically it is a much better program than its instate talent would warrant. So in state recruiting has just never been as much of a focus as its been for the FL schools, bama schools, GA, etc
 
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