19 students, 3 adults dead in Texas elementary shooting.

[BigOrangeGirl]

I really wish it were that easy. But it’s no more easy to talk about between the left and right then it was at your table tonight.

Very true.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Mail in.

In order to vote, you must first register to vote. You can't register to vote without government issued identification. That is required under federal law.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Yes and that’s your “personal” feelings on the subject. But if we’re being honest, doesn’t that all change once the intruder starts shooting? Don’t you wish you had a gun then?

I'm a pediatrician and live in one of the safest areas in East Tennessee. However, ish happens, and I have made the decision to securely own the tools I might need to protect my family in case of emergency or a tyrannical change in governance. I enjoy target shooting and am able to hunt if need be. Am I a risk to go on a killing spree just because I own some guns? Or emergency PPE? Or durable food and water supplies? Or body armor? Of course not. Irrational people don't think like that.

And, neither are the 100% of my friends, LEOs, and colleagues who have similar preparations.

 

[kiddiedoc]

They can’t defend themselves against the mental illness and evilness that are in this world. And their lives are worth us adults shutting the hell up with our arguing, swallowing our pride and figuring this out.

Here we see an honest, reasonable approach to the problem.

 

[volinbham]

In order to vote, you must first register to vote. You can't register to vote without government issued identification. That is required under federal law.

So let's say you once registered to vote and since then you've moved or died or haven't voted in 10 years. Anyone with the voter roles could identify this and vote in your name via mail in/drop off unless there is a signature match requirement or some other voter specific ID required. It wouldn't be hard to run a predictive model of which people on the voter roles are highly unlikely to vote and substitute a ballot in their name; particularly if the state mails unsolicited ballots to all on the voter roles. It's one reason why cleaning up the voter roles is advocated.

TL;DR - registering to vote is different than voting.

 

[1vol8]

I understand where you’re coming from. I had a meeting today with other administrative staff to figure out where we may be coming short in our safety. And yes, I do believe that schools are just sitting ducks. I actually had a father call me today and offer to donate guns and safes to our facility. Everyone wants this to stop- we just have different ideas on how to get there.

I responded to someone else earlier and told him this. The only way to fight a gunman is with a gun. If there were any other way the US military would be equipped with flashlights and whistles. Until that changes, guns are you ONLY protection from evil and you choosing to have one may be the difference in a kid living or dying within a school. But it is NOT your responsibility to do so.

I’m a CCW carrier and ex cop. I have a minimum of 2 guns on me at all times. But I don’t see them as my personal protection as much as everyone elses. When I walk into a store or wherever I am, the first thing I do is internally plan out situations. Where’s my Cover? Where’s my concealment? Where do I direct people to safety so I can engage and not hurt the innocent? I got tested just two days ago and the first thing I did was tell spectators to disperse to a safe place before turning my attention back to the threat. I understand that not everyone is like me. But I also understand that a mind can change in an instant once the threat is in their face

 

[theFallGuy]

 

[allvol123]

In order to vote, you must first register to vote. You can't register to vote without government issued identification. That is required under federal law.

And once that ballot reaches the mailed to location, anyone can cast it.

 

[BowlBrother85]

It wouldn't be hard to run a predictive model of which people on the voter roles are highly unlikely to vote

By only knowing a registered voter's name? I disagree.

 

[volinbham]

By only knowing a registered voter's name? I disagree.

wouldn't be hard to check who'd moved

 

[1vol8]

I'm a pediatrician and live in one of the safest areas in East Tennessee. However, ish happens, and I have made the decision to securely own the tools I might need to protect my family in case of emergency or a tyrannical change in governance. I enjoy target shooting and am able to hunt if need be. Am I a risk to go on a killing spree just because I own some guns? Or emergency PPE? Or durable food and water supplies? Or body armor? Of course not. Irrational people don't think like that.

And, neither are the 100% of my friends, LEOs, and colleagues who have similar preparations.

I think that makes you a very smart man

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I think you’re missing the point. I don’t mean that every staff member is required to carry. But there would be enough teachers in each school that would take that responsibility willingly and form a line of defense between themselves and the kids. I know I would and I refuse to believe that my way of thinking is lonely.

Armed shooter in body armor vs a teacher without body armor who must take that few seconds to unlock and prepare their weapon.

It's a situation YOU wouldn't want to be in, I imagine.

 

[volinbham]

I think that regardless of what side of the political spectrum we are on almost all of us care greatly about this issue. My husband and I had a heated debate about it over dinner tonight. He doesn’t want any sort of new gun control. I would be willing to back gun control measures if I thought it could help save our children at a school. However, he and I each had this conversation with tears in our eyes. We’re parents, we’re humans, and young children being killed is heartbreaking to us as it is to pretty much everyone.
We as a country need to cause such an outcry that something is done to fix it. If you have 50 guns or if you have 0. If you love or hate gun control. If you are democrat or republican. Because I can tell you first hand, I see these babies every day. They can’t defend themselves against the mental illness and evilness that are in this world. And their lives are worth us adults shutting the hell up with our arguing, swallowing our pride and figuring this out.

thanks for this

 

[BowlBrother85]

And once that ballot reaches the mailed to location, anyone can cast it.

Not if that "mailed to location" is a P.O. Box.

 

[allvol123]

Not if that "mailed to" location is a P.O Box.

How so? There are security measures in place where the PO Box recipient is the only person that can cast the vote?

So the 50 year old son of the 80 year old senile mother can’t cast her ballot?

 

[BigOrangeGirl]

Armed shooter in body armor vs a teacher without body armor who must take that few seconds to unlock and prepare their weapon.

It's a situation YOU wouldn't want to be in, I imagine.

I have to admit I know so little about guns I am not sure how long it would take to get it from a safe (if you were in the same room as the safe). I’m assuming it would be left loaded in the safe…? Is it realistic that you could get the gun and take out the shooter? For someone not highly trained- because let’s be honest- even if the average teacher is “trained” it’s most likely not going to be highly specialized training. Is it truly logical to think that the average woman (again, just basing this off the majority teachers) with basic training could do this?

 

[1vol8]

Armed shooter in body armor vs a teacher without body armor who must take that few seconds to unlock and prepare their weapon.

It's a situation YOU wouldn't want to be in, I imagine.

Hell no but I still like my chances more with a gun in hand vs without

 

[BowlBrother85]

How so? There are security measures in place where the PO Box recipient is the only person that can cast the vote?

So the 50 year old son of the 80 year old senile mother can’t cast her ballot?

If the 50 year old is good at forgery, I suppose they could. Most states do require signature verification for mail-in ballots.

 

[volinbham]

I have to admit I know so little about guns I am not sure how long it would take to get it from a safe (if you were in the same room as the safe). I’m assuming it would be left loaded in the safe…? Is it realistic that you could get the gun and take out the shooter? For someone not highly trained- because let’s be honest- even if the average teacher is “trained” it’s most likely not going to be highly specialized training. Is it truly logical to think that the average woman (again, just basing this off the majority teachers) with basic training could do this?

I suppose those who chose to carry could be sufficiently trained but these things are all so random that the odds that a shooter chose a school and the room or section where the few trained teachers are is so small.

I just don't see arming teachers as any kind of solution. I suppose it shouldn't be banned and may double the deterrent of a resource officer but it seems there is so much more low hanging fruit for school security. I also agree that earlier comments that more guns in the school creates it's own problem.

 

[volsforever27]

I have to admit I know so little about guns I am not sure how long it would take to get it from a safe (if you were in the same room as the safe). I’m assuming it would be left loaded in the safe…? Is it realistic that you could get the gun and take out the shooter? For someone not highly trained- because let’s be honest- even if the average teacher is “trained” it’s most likely not going to be highly specialized training. Is it truly logical to think that the average woman (again, just basing this off the majority teachers) with basic training could do this?

Just curious, what do the teachers you know think? What is their solution? Not an attack, just wondering.

 

[volinbham]

If the 50 year old is good at forgery, I suppose they could. Most states do require signature verification for mail-in ballots.

a major push in mail in/drop off is to do away with/limit signature verification.

 

[allvol123]

If the 50 year old is good at forgery, I suppose they could. Most states do require signature verification for mail-in ballots.

Seems pretty stout.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Hell no but I still like my chances more with a gun in hand vs without

Pretty simple solution for a shooter. Remove the teacher with the weapon.

The prick in Buffalo faced an armed former LEO and murdered him easily despite taking rounds to his armor.

You're simply not offering a solution. Teachers will die first and have no chance to help the kids.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I have to admit I know so little about guns I am not sure how long it would take to get it from a safe (if you were in the same room as the safe). I’m assuming it would be left loaded in the safe…? Is it realistic that you could get the gun and take out the shooter? For someone not highly trained- because let’s be honest- even if the average teacher is “trained” it’s most likely not going to be highly specialized training. Is it truly logical to think that the average woman (again, just basing this off the majority teachers) with basic training could do this?

In a word, even with a fingerprint safe..... with no body armor and not being trained vs even an idiot with an AK and body armor, you're going die quickly.

It's mainly the body armor issue. You have little to zero second chance if they get you with their first burst. After that, they just finish you. Even if you manage to shoot them, the chance of being good enough to get them with a disabling shot is slim.

In TX, they apparently had to resort to a head shot to kill the guy.

 

[BigOrangeGirl]

Just curious, what do the teachers you know think? What is their solution? Not an attack, just wondering.

By far most that I know do not want to be armed. That is not to say that we/ they are anti-gun or that we don’t want to be responsible for our students. I think we just analyze all the pros and cons and see more cons. It seems that the public vision is that of the hero teacher jumping in and ending the altercation by killing an intruder. However, I (and most teachers I know) view this as almost a “romanticized” version of being a hero and it’s unlikely to happen in real life.