19 students, 3 adults dead in Texas elementary shooting.

[Septic]

This is the result of taking God out of schools. Whether you believe in God or not, right and wrong, believing someone knows what you are thinking and doing, someone who’ll hold you accountable. Instead whatever you think is right and we’ll give you chemicals to “treat” any ail

Yeah, I dont believe in god. The fear of being accountable in the afterlife is not even remotely a reason that I'd cite for not murdering someone.

It's terrifying that THAT could be the difference in a "believer" shooting up a school or not.

 

[volfanhill]

This is the result of taking God out of schools. Whether you believe in God or not, right and wrong, believing someone knows what you are thinking and doing, someone who’ll hold you accountable. Instead whatever you think is right and we’ll give you chemicals to “treat” any ail

Santa? You just described Santa.

 

[volsforever27]

By far most that I know do not want to be armed. That is not to say that we/ they are anti-gun or that we don’t want to be responsible for our students. I think we just analyze all the pros and cons and see more cons. It seems that the public vision is that of the hero teacher jumping in and ending the altercation by killing an intruder. However, I (and most teachers I know) view this as almost a “romanticized” version of being a hero and it’s unlikely to happen in real life.

I'm pro 2A but would never force anyone to carry if they choose not to.

So if they don't want to carry, how do they think the problem is solved. Gun control? Mental health?

Not picking on you at all, just trying to see where the teachers are coming from. The few I've known over the years are to the left of Lenin, so that's probably a bad sample.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I suppose those who chose to carry could be sufficiently trained but these things are all so random that the odds that a shooter chose a school and the room or section where the few trained teachers are is so small.

I just don't see arming teachers as any kind of solution. I suppose it shouldn't be banned and may double the deterrent of a resource officer but it seems there is so much more low hanging fruit for school security. I also agree that earlier comments that more guns in the school creates it's own problem.

Who is going to want the insurance risk of an armed teacher?

Think about it. A shooting situation is going to be chaos and the chance of a shooter moving toward innocents and a stray bullet ricocheting into a kid is pretty reasonable.

So when it comes out that the "hero teacher with a weapon" shot a child......... the school is on the hook for that liability.

 

[volfanhill]

I'm pro 2A but would never force anyone to carry if they choose not to.

So if they don't want to carry, how do they think the problem is solved. Gun control? Mental health?

Not picking on you at all, just trying to see where the teachers are coming from. The few I've known over the years are to the left of Lenin, so that's probably a bad sample.

If I am a teacher it's on the parents. Why are they in charge making sure your POS doesn't start shooting people?

 

[BigOrangeGirl]

In a word, even with a fingerprint safe..... with no body armor and not being trained vs even an idiot with an AK and body armor, you're going die quickly.

It's mainly the body armor issue. You have little to zero second chance if they get you with their first burst. After that, they just finish you. Even if you manage to shoot them, the chance of being good enough to get them with a disabling shot is slim.

In TX, they apparently had to resort to a head shot to kill the guy.

This is exactly what I’m thinking. Again, I definitely do not speak for all educators, only myself. I do believe that I would be willing to give my life for my students. As I mentioned before, I don’t think we truly know how we will react until we are in that situation. However, am I just as well off to throw my body over a few of my kids( I work with younger children) and die that way or be fiddling with a gun safe/ gun, die myself, and save no one? I have pretty much no gun experience. I’ve shot at stationary targets with my husband and sons a few times. It seems I would need a LOT of training and practice to become a good enough shot to kill someone in a high adrenaline situation.
Any other educators here that can give opinions?

 

[volfanhill]

Who is going to want the insurance risk of an armed teacher?

Think about it. A shooting situation is going to be chaos and the chance of a shooter moving toward innocents and a stray bullet ricocheting into a kid is pretty reasonable.

So when it comes out that the "hero teacher with a weapon" shot a child......... the school is on the hook for that liability.

100% why it will never happen

 

[BigOrangeGirl]

Who is going to want the insurance risk of an armed teacher?

Think about it. A shooting situation is going to be chaos and the chance of a shooter moving toward innocents and a stray bullet ricocheting into a kid is pretty reasonable.

So when it comes out that the "hero teacher with a weapon" shot a child......... the school is on the hook for that liability.

I feel like I’m commenting too much, but I had this thought too. Remember, if we raise our voice at a child we run the risk of a lawsuit…

 

[1vol8]

Pretty simple solution for a shooter. Remove the teacher with the weapon.

The prick in Buffalo faced an armed former LEO and murdered him easily despite taking rounds to his armor.

You're simply not offering a solution. Teachers will die first and have no chance to help the kids.

You’re not listening. 1st- You speak as if I’m saying there is only one teacher with a gun pointed at him when in fact I’m saying multiple teachers would sign up. 2nd- not all shooters are wearing body armor and 3rd- if they took the approach of arming teachers, the shooters never go to schools anymore in the first place.

The fact that this one was wearing body armor only shows that HE didn’t want to die. The fact that he chose an elementary school shows he didn’t want to take return fire. Same with the idiot at the grocery store. Shooters go to places where guns are not present. Make guns present and make shooters choose another place. Someone showed a stat from 1950- present and 94% of mass shootings took place in gun free zones. You would have to be a willing idiot not to see what needs to happen to stop these school shootings.

 

[volsforever27]

If I am a teacher it's on the parents. Why are they in charge making sure your POS doesn't start shooting people?

I'm not disagreeing with you. It definitely starts at home, just wondering what the teachers think.

I've seen several get their panties in a wad but it's a big culture and broken home issue that contributes. Doesn't mean every kid will go on a shooting spree, but the data is there.

 

[volfanhill]

I'm not disagreeing with you. It definitely starts at home, just wondering what the teachers think.

I've seen several get their panties in a wad but it's a big culture and broken home issue that contributes. Doesn't mean every kid will go on a shooting spree, but the data is there.

Don't know why anyone would be a teacher. Worst job ever.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Gunman kills five students at Amish school

This will always be the sickest of them all. It is believed that Charles Roberts chose this particular school, because he knew that there wouldn't be any guns on an Amish site. He also knew that police involvement would take much longer, because they don't have phones either. This gave him time to sexually abuse some of the girls. Charles Roberts is the biggest coward that ever lived.

* Members of that Amish community, including some parents of young children that Roberts had killed, attended his funeral, consoled his widow, and even said prayers for him. Can you imagine?

Question :

How do you prevent a mass shooting at an Amish school?

Answer :

You don't.

 

[1vol8]

In a word, even with a fingerprint safe..... with no body armor and not being trained vs even an idiot with an AK and body armor, you're going die quickly.

It's mainly the body armor issue. You have little to zero second chance if they get you with their first burst. After that, they just finish you. Even if you manage to shoot them, the chance of being good enough to get them with a disabling shot is slim.

In TX, they apparently had to resort to a head shot to kill the guy.

Bull Sh^^! A fingerprint safe takes literally a second to retrieve the weapon. Within that Safe the weapon should already be loaded putting you on target before he ever enters the room. The body armor is an issue but only because most shots are aimed center mass. However, the moment the intruder entered the room anyone could see the armor and move their shot placement up. The downfall is being the unfortunate first target of the shooter. You don’t know he’s coming so therefore he gets first aim. So all you’re talking about is being caught off guard.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You’re not listening. 1st- You speak as if I’m saying there is only one teacher with a gun pointed at him when in fact I’m saying multiple teachers would sign up. 2nd- not all shooters are wearing body armor and 3rd- if they took the approach of arming teachers, the shooters never go to schools anymore in the first place.

The fact that this one was wearing body armor only shows that HE didn’t want to die. The fact that he chose an elementary school shows he didn’t want to take return fire. Same with the idiot at the grocery store. Shooters go to places where guns are not present. Make guns present and make shooters choose another place. Someone showed a stat from 1950- present and 94% of mass shootings took place in gun free zones. You would have to be a willing idiot not to see what needs to happen to stop these school shootings.

I AM listening. And yes they ARE going to wear body armor. Don't be absurd.

ESPECIALLY as targets get "harder" with weapons, the plan will be to remove whomever might have a weapon, as the guy did in the grocery store in Buffalo.

Stop trying to say "it'll work if enough people are armed." This psycho in TX barricaded himself in what was apparently a adjoining rooms and murdered kids.

Absolutely nothing you're suggesting will prevent that.

If you actually want to try to prevent it, you're going to have to come up with something else because we both know: modern shooters are coming with good weapons and lots of ammo and body armor.

Stop suggesting it's the 50s. It's not.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Bull Sh^^! A fingerprint safe takes literally a second to retrieve the weapon. Within that Safe the weapon should already be loaded putting you on target before he ever enters the room. The body armor is an issue but only because most shots are aimed center mass. However, the moment the intruder entered the room anyone could see the armor and move their shot placement up. The downfall is being the unfortunate first target of the shooter. You don’t know he’s coming so therefore he gets first aim. So all you’re talking about is being caught off guard.

Yes, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING.

First burst of shots vs no body armor on the teacher. The psycho doesn't even have to be that good, just first with a few bursts from a high capacity magazine.

It's over.

 

[BigOrangeGirl]

I'm pro 2A but would never force anyone to carry if they choose not to.

So if they don't want to carry, how do they think the problem is solved. Gun control? Mental health?

Not picking on you at all, just trying to see where the teachers are coming from. The few I've known over the years are to the left of Lenin, so that's probably a bad sample.

I am very much a moderate politically just to give you an idea of where I’m coming from there. I grew up in a very conservative family that owned numerous guns for mainly hunting purposes. Now, my husband and teenage son have many guns. It doesn’t bother me at all. They are locked in safes and both my husband and son have enough training that I feel comfortable they’re not going to shoot themselves or each other when they are hunting or at the range. With that said, I would be on board with more gun control (I know, it’s our right, this is just my opinion and no I do not think all guns should just be taken). And yes, mental health is obviously a HUGE issue. Is it possible to walk in a school and shoot children without being insane? I don’t think so.
I honestly think most teachers and admins are as lost as every one else. You implement the lockdowns, you restrict school access, you basically do everything EXCEPT have armed people throughout the building, and still we can’t protect our kids. What I think most school systems would greatly appreciate is more armed and trained personnel on premises. Police, military, vets, what have you. I also think the upfront presence of the SRO is helpful. I’ve only seen a few schools where the officer is placed in a prominent location. For instance, at my son’s school the SRO is the one to meet parents at the door if they have business at the school during the day. Super welcoming? Maybe not, but perhaps effective at deterring some ******* with a gun.

 

[1vol8]

I AM listening. And yes they ARE going to wear body armor. Don't be absurd.

ESPECIALLY as targets get "harder" with weapons, the plan will be to remove whomever might have a weapon, as the guy did in the grocery store in Buffalo.

Stop trying to say "it'll work if enough people are armed." This psycho in TX barricaded himself in what was apparently a adjoining rooms and murdered kids.

Absolutely nothing you're suggesting will prevent that.

If you actually want to try to prevent it, you're going to have to come up with something else because we both know: modern shooters are coming with good weapons and lots of ammo and body armor.

Stop suggesting it's the 50s. It's not.

HELLO! Knock knock! HE WAS WEARING BODY ARMOR BECAUSE HE DIDN’T WANT TO DIE!!!!! What part of that don’t you understand? He went to a school because there are no guns to shoot back! Fast forward a few years in my opinion and notice that he wouldn’t have went to a school knowing the staff were armed! Otherwise he would be asking to die and therefore wouldn’t have bothered with the armor! Get it?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

HELLO! Knock knock! HE WAS WEARING BODY ARMOR BECAUSE HE DIDN’T WANT TO DIE!!!!! What part of that don’t you understand? He went to a school because there are no guns to shoot back! Fast forward a few years in my opinion and notice that he wouldn’t have went to a school knowing the staff were armed! Otherwise he would be asking to die and therefore wouldn’t have bothered with the armor! Get it?

Tap Tap...... I don't care about your fingerprint safe. I only have to wing your armed teacher then shoot them in the head.

And, if you're going into anywhere domestically to shoot multiple people, you probably realize you're not going to walk out.

Body armor is a tool so you can do your mission as well long and as well as possible.

You're dreaming if you think this guy thought he didn't have a HUGE chance of dying. All the body armor does is allows you to kill as many as possible before they either surrender you (Buffalo) or kill you (TX.)

 

[BigOrangeGirl]

You’re not listening. 1st- You speak as if I’m saying there is only one teacher with a gun pointed at him when in fact I’m saying multiple teachers would sign up. 2nd- not all shooters are wearing body armor and 3rd- if they took the approach of arming teachers, the shooters never go to schools anymore in the first place.

The fact that this one was wearing body armor only shows that HE didn’t want to die. The fact that he chose an elementary school shows he didn’t want to take return fire. Same with the idiot at the grocery store. Shooters go to places where guns are not present. Make guns present and make shooters choose another place. Someone showed a stat from 1950- present and 94% of mass shootings took place in gun free zones. You would have to be a willing idiot not to see what needs to happen to stop these school shootings.

But why did there used to be no school shootings? Is it because schools are “gun free zones” or is it something else? Say the year is 1960, was it assumed that people inside the school would have weapons? I know my dad has talked about being able to take hunting rifles in his truck back in those days…
If it’s not that would be shooters were deterred by the threat of people on the inside having guns then what has changed? Mental health seems to be one major thing. I’m sure there are lots of studies I could read, but I just wonder what has caused this influx of of individuals with mental health problems.

 

[1vol8]

Yes, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING.

First burst of shots vs no body armor on the teacher. The psycho doesn't even have to be that good, just first with a few bursts from a high capacity magazine.

It's over.

Oh here we go with the “high capacity magazine” bs. I carry a Sig P-320 9mm that holds 21+1. I can hit a 10 inch target from 45 yards with the optic. That option is out there for anyone, including teachers if they so choose. The gun you chose is your choice. The training you involve yourself in is also your choice. Any teacher that chooses to arm themselves would have all the same options I do. Come into my class with my choice of firearm and you wouldn’t break the threshold

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Oh here we go with the “high capacity magazine” bs. I carry a Sig P-320 9mm that holds 21+1. I can hit a 10 inch target from 45 yards with the optic. That option is out there for anyone, including teachers if they so choose. The gun you chose is your choice. The training you involve yourself in is also your choice. Any teacher that chooses to arm themselves would have all the same options I do. Come into my class with my choice of firearm and you wouldn’t break the threshold

You also train regularly, I imagine.

You're asking a lot of teachers who routinely pay for common supplies because the school system doesn't fund it to take courses and maintain proficiency with a weapon also.

It doesn't work and you start with distractions.

It doesn't work. Body armor vs no body armor...... and you know it.

 

[1vol8]

But why did there used to be no school shootings? Is it because schools are “gun free zones” or is it something else? Say the year is 1960, was it assumed that people inside the school would have weapons? I know my dad has talked about being able to take hunting rifles in his truck back in those days…
If it’s not that would be shooters were deterred by the threat of people on the inside having guns then what has changed? Mental health seems to be one major thing. I’m sure there are lots of studies I could read, but I just wonder what has caused this influx of of individuals with mental health problems.

In the 60s they had firearm training in schools. So yes. That’s exactly why. Kids had hunting rifles in their windows of their trucks in the school parking lots. A lot of them. If you went to a school to shoot it up, you knew you wouldn’t make it back out

 

[1vol8]

You also train regularly, I imagine.

You're asking a lot of teachers who routinely pay for common supplies because the school system doesn't fund it to take courses and maintain proficiency with a weapon also.

It doesn't work and you start with distractions.

It doesn't work. Body armor vs no body armor...... and you know it.

Maybe I’m slightly over confident in people. I believe anyone can do what I do if they wanted. Who’s to say that ranges wouldn’t get on board to train teachers for free if it were made legal for them to carry. I would bet they would in a heartbeat

 

[Dirty Vol]

And as sure as the fact we are on Volnation, you continue to blame LGBTQ folks for every ill in society.

We'll they are pushing to make pedophiles accepted within society soooooo........give them an inch and they take a mile....

 

[Dirty Vol]