19 students, 3 adults dead in Texas elementary shooting.

[BigOrangeGirl]

You also train regularly, I imagine.

You're asking a lot of teachers who routinely pay for common supplies because the school system doesn't fund it to take courses and maintain proficiency with a weapon also.

It doesn't work and you start with distractions.

It doesn't work. Body armor vs no body armor...... and you know it.

This! Teacher salaries are so low when you begin to look at what is required- without bringing actually fighting for your life and the lives of the students that you love. Eventually we will probably have a very difficult time getting teachers. Maybe virtual school is the way to go full time. Have certified teachers, but everyone is in the safety of their own home. And yes I know the safety of our homes can vary as well, but it seems a better option that going to a central location in a lot of ways.
However, then we have to consider little Sammy that won’t have food to eat without school meals, or will be left alone with no adult for ten hours each day. School is really so much more than a place to learn- it is a second home to many students.

 

[Dirty Vol]

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Oh here we go with the “high capacity magazine” bs. I carry a Sig P-320 9mm that holds 21+1. I can hit a 10 inch target from 45 yards with the optic. That option is out there for anyone, including teachers if they so choose. The gun you chose is your choice. The training you involve yourself in is also your choice. Any teacher that chooses to arm themselves would have all the same options I do. Come into my class with my choice of firearm and you wouldn’t break the threshold

You also train regularly, I imagine.

You're asking a lot of teachers who routinely pay for common supplies because the school system doesn't fund it to take courses and maintain proficiency with a weapon also.

It doesn't work and you start with distractions.

It doesn't work. Body armor vs no body armor...... and you know it.

But why did there used to be no school shootings? Is it because schools are “gun free zones” or is it something else? Say the year is 1960, was it assumed that people inside the school would have weapons? I know my dad has talked about being able to take hunting rifles in his truck back in those days…
If it’s not that would be shooters were deterred by the threat of people on the inside having guns then what has changed? Mental health seems to be one major thing. I’m sure there are lots of studies I could read, but I just wonder what has caused this influx of of individuals with mental health problems.

It's also become "a thing" to shoot up a school or Walmart or whatever.

People like the crazy in Buffalo or the mosque shooters or synagogue shooters or other church shooters assume these are "soft" mostly unarmed situations where they can kill a lot of people.

Oddly, the crazy that shot up Ft Hood ALSO realized that military bases have extreme limits on who is armed on base and when. You'd think everyone on base is well armed....... and you'd be dead wrong.

 

[BigOrangeGirl]

In the 60s they had firearm training in schools. So yes. That’s exactly why. Kids had hunting rifles in their windows of their trucks in the school parking lots. A lot of them. If you went to a school to shoot it up, you knew you wouldn’t make it back out

Okay. I wasn’t sure if guns were IN schools then. Isn’t it ironic that our kids can’t make a “finger gun” without being expelled now, but our society is in this situation?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

This! Teacher salaries are so low when you begin to look at what is required- without bringing actually fighting for your life and the lives of the students that you love. Eventually we will probably have a very difficult time getting teachers. Maybe virtual school is the way to go full time. Have certified teachers, but everyone is in the safety of their own home. And yes I know the safety of our homes can vary as well, but it seems a better option that going to a central location in a lot of ways.
However, then we have to consider little Sammy that won’t have food to eat without school meals, or will be left alone with no adult for ten hours each day. School is really so much more than a place to learn- it is a second home to many students.

This is exactly my dog in this fight.

Teachers didn't go into the profession to moonlight as armed security. Teachers DO want to help their kids and make multiple sacrifices for them.

Becoming the first target of a deranged shooter because they MIGHT be opening a gun safe...... is a step way too far.

 

[1vol8]

But why did there used to be no school shootings? Is it because schools are “gun free zones” or is it something else? Say the year is 1960, was it assumed that people inside the school would have weapons? I know my dad has talked about being able to take hunting rifles in his truck back in those days…
If it’s not that would be shooters were deterred by the threat of people on the inside having guns then what has changed? Mental health seems to be one major thing. I’m sure there are lots of studies I could read, but I just wonder what has caused this influx of of individuals with mental health problems.

Also, concerning mental health, things changed when the government got involved in HOW we discipline our kids. You now go to jail for spanking your kid when back then you got slapped across the room if so much as asked “why?”. Back then those kids knew respect for authority because they were made to growing up. Now kids have to raise themselves because there is no one to show them right from wrong. So they created labels to attach to undisciplined kids and they blame it on the kids head when I’m fat it’s the lack of parenting in most cases. That’s just my opinion

 

[1vol8]

Okay. I wasn’t sure if guns were IN schools then. Isn’t it ironic that our kids can’t make a “finger gun” without being expelled now, but our society is in this situation?

It is. But yes guns were IN schools back then for training purposes

 

[BigOrangeGirl]

Exa

This is exactly my dog in this fight.

Teachers didn't go into the profession to moonlight as armed security. Teachers DO want to help their kids and make multiple sacrifices for them.

Becoming the first target of a deranged shooter because they MIGHT be opening a gun safe...... is a step way too far.

Exactly. And yes, anyone going into the education profession now “knows” that safety is an issue, but it still isn’t at the forefront of your mind. The vast majority of teachers just really like working with kids or young people and want to do that as their career. I am not trying to make teachers into martyrs, but I just feel like how much more can we logically expect them to take on. Everyone has their breaking point, and I believe our public school employees are close.

 

[C-south]

This is exactly my dog in this fight.

Teachers didn't go into the profession to moonlight as armed security. Teachers DO want to help their kids and make multiple sacrifices for them.

Becoming the first target of a deranged shooter because they MIGHT be opening a gun safe...... is a step way too far.

Neither do convenience store clerks but soft targets are often targeted for a variety of reasons. Not every teacher needs to be armed but having a backup or two besides a resource officer could be beneficial.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Exa
Exactly. And yes, anyone going into the education profession now “knows” that safety is an issue, but it still isn’t at the forefront of your mind. The vast majority of teachers just really like working with kids or young people and want to do that as their career. I am not trying to make teachers into martyrs, but I just feel like how much more can we logically expect them to take on. Everyone has their breaking point, and I believe our public school employees are close.

Let's be real. Safety issues for teachers are mostly the students, then the parents, then staff/admin/other teachers, then an outsider.

While it's unlikely a student will intentionally kill a teacher, they usually target other students with their weapons but teachers die trying to stop the situation.

More often than not students and parents go after the career of a teacher with various tactics.

Admin changes also bring threats to teachers who "have had too much of a free hand" when the admin changes.

Shooters are way down the list.

Teachers simply don't get paid enough. Someone brings up the money sent to Ukraine. They've never played international dominos...... one doesn't let Putin think he can invade countries without our help.

Past that, teachers fight to get enough supplies or enough food in their kids or enough books or enough of anything to just.....ya know.... teach.

And now you wanna make them "the next line" to keep schools from being "soft targets?"

What's next? Do we train nuns so a convent isn't a soft target? Nurses in hospitals and nursing homes? Cashiers at Dollar General?

C'mon. It's absurd.

 

[BigOrangeGirl]

I c

Let's be real. Safety issues for teachers are mostly the students, then the parents, then staff/admin/other teachers, then an outsider.

While it's unlikely a student will intentionally kill a teacher, they usually target other students with their weapons but teachers die trying to stop the situation.

More often than not students and parents go after the career of a teacher with various tactics.

Admin changes also bring threats to teachers who "have had too much of a free hand" when the admin changes.

Shooters are way down the list.

Teachers simply don't get paid enough. Someone brings up the money sent to Ukraine. They've never played international dominos...... one doesn't let Putin think he can invade countries without our help.

Past that, teachers fight to get enough supplies or enough food in their kids or enough books or enough of anything to just.....ya know.... teach.

And now you wanna make them "the next line" to keep schools from being "soft targets?"

What's next? Do we train nuns so a convent isn't a soft target? Nurses in hospitals and nursing homes? Cashiers at Dollar General?

C'mon. It's absurd.

I feel like you know some teachers pretty well. Thank you for your understanding and compassion.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Neither do convenience store clerks but soft targets are often targeted for a variety of reasons. Not every teacher needs to be armed but having a backup or two besides a resource officer could be beneficial.

It could. It could and would be an enormous insurance risk for the community and personal risk for EVERY teacher, even those not armed.

What you're doing is putting a target on every teacher, armed or not, for a shooter. Any school shooter already knows they need to avoid or kill the SCO as quickly as possible.

Under your scenario, they also need to kill any teacher they see immediately.

Again, the dream that someone who is ready to carry out a mass shooting isn't heavily armed and heavily armored is.....a dream.

By now they know the drill and it's not hard in America to be fully armed and fully armored. I daresay SEVERAL reading this thread have the makings of a tragedy in their home....... and it only takes the deranged thoughts of a family member to make it happen. Anywhere. Literally, anywhere.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I c
I feel like you know some teachers pretty well. Thank you for your understanding and compassion.

It's awful. Every teacher in that school, the SCO in that school, every officer that responded..... has to imagine "what could I have done to keep just one little child alive?"

It's a horrible fact that America can't stop this or is unwilling to stop this. It doesn't commonly happen around the world despite mental illness, despite a violent society, despite bad parenting........

It doesn't happen. What keeps it from happening as often elsewhere? What keeps THOSE governments from enslaving their people, despite weapons?

These are legitimate questions.

 

[BigOrangeGirl]

It's awful. Every teacher in that school, the SCO in that school, every officer that responded..... has to imagine "what could I have done to keep just one little child alive?"

It's a horrible fact that America can't stop this or is unwilling to stop this. It doesn't commonly happen around the world despite mental illness, despite a violent society, despite bad parenting........

It doesn't happen. What keeps it from happening as often elsewhere? What keeps THOSE governments from enslaving their people, despite weapons?

These are legitimate questions.

Yes, I have these questions as well.

 

[Dirty Vol]

Let's be real. Safety issues for teachers are mostly the students, then the parents, then staff/admin/other teachers, then an outsider.

While it's unlikely a student will intentionally kill a teacher, they usually target other students with their weapons but teachers die trying to stop the situation.

More often than not students and parents go after the career of a teacher with various tactics.

Admin changes also bring threats to teachers who "have had too much of a free hand" when the admin changes.

Shooters are way down the list.

Teachers simply don't get paid enough. Someone brings up the money sent to Ukraine. They've never played international dominos...... one doesn't let Putin think he can invade countries without our help.

Past that, teachers fight to get enough supplies or enough food in their kids or enough books or enough of anything to just.....ya know.... teach.

And now you wanna make them "the next line" to keep schools from being "soft targets?"

What's next? Do we train nuns so a convent isn't a soft target? Nurses in hospitals and nursing homes? Cashiers at Dollar General?

C'mon. It's absurd.

It is absurd to train teachers to become quasi protection details but we defend other aspects of society with guns and one could make an argument that armed teachers would help as a deterrent in the short term which could lead to lives saved. In fact plenty of posters have. Ultimately it doesn't resolve this issue and I wouldn't consider it a permanent fix because I believe it's a mental health epidemic and morality issue with society. The money sent to Ukraine for military aid would have been better served here in the US. Get the mental health institutions back up and running. Funding to provide controlled secured points of entry to schools and lock down capability for each classroom. Fund mental health services which have been continuously eroded since the early 90s. Their is a lot that money could have supported. Our money is better served for our needs and our people.

 

[0nelilreb]

It's awful. Every teacher in that school, the SCO in that school, every officer that responded..... has to imagine "what could I have done to keep just one little child alive?"

It's a horrible fact that America can't stop this or is unwilling to stop this. It doesn't commonly happen around the world despite mental illness, despite a violent society, despite bad parenting........

It doesn't happen. What keeps it from happening as often elsewhere? What keeps THOSE governments from enslaving their people, despite weapons?

These are legitimate questions.

I keep reading the same thing all throughout the thread but always come back to what I’ve asked several times … what happened to us to get us to this point ? As a Gen-x’er that graduated in 86’ I never experienced anything like this .We had more access to , more firearms than probably any generation before or after us if you think about it . Growing up during the 70’s and 80’s there was no such thing as being offended , we cracked on everyone and you got back just as much as you gave , “verbally assaulting “ somebody was a game that you perfected and things did get to serious you just fell out and went to swinging until somebody had enough . How did we go from this to everyone being butt hurt over every thing that’s said , kids having such a fragile mindset , firearms having more restrictions than anytime in my life , and school shootings where someone just randomly kills kids they don’t even know ?

Before Luther and company slides in with the same tired answer about being poor .. my whole family were loggers and share croppers from west TN and north east MS, I still remember wearing hand me downs , going to yard sales for clothes , listening to AM radio and hunting for rabbits and squirrels to actually eat . So no , being poor isn’t the answer .

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

My conscience is clear.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

View attachment 458137It is absurd to train teachers to become quasi protection details but we defend other aspects of society with guns and one could make an argument that armed teachers would help as a deterrent in the short term which could lead to lives saved. In fact plenty of posters have. Ultimately it doesn't resolve this issue and I wouldn't consider it a permanent fix because I believe it's a mental health epidemic and morality issue with society. The money sent to Ukraine for military aid would have been better served here in the US. Get the mental health institutions back up and running. Funding to provide controlled secured points of entry to schools and lock down capability for each classroom. Fund mental health services which have been continuously eroded since the early 90s. Their is a lot that money could have supported. Our money is better served for our needs and our people.

You literally suggest we fund guns to protect schools, groceries, stores, literally everything.....

until mental health is funded and society is changed enough to assure that people won't be nuts in a society that essentially offers wholesale availability of guns, ammo and body armor?

How long do you thing that will take?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I keep reading the same thing all throughout the thread but always come back to what I’ve asked several times … what happened to us to get us to this point ? As a Gen-x’er that graduated in 86’ I never experienced anything like this .We had more access to , more firearms than probably any generation before or after us if you think about it . Growing up during the 70’s and 80’s there was no such thing as being offended , we cracked on everyone and you got back just as much as you gave , “verbally assaulting “ somebody was a game that you perfected and things did get to serious you just fell out and went to swinging until somebody had enough . How did we go from this to everyone being butt hurt over every thing that’s said , kids having such a fragile mindset , firearms having more restrictions than anytime in my life , and school shootings where someone just randomly kills kids they don’t even know ?

Before Luther and company slides in with the same tired answer about being poor .. my whole family were loggers and share croppers from west TN and north east MS, I still remember wearing hand me downs , going to yard sales for clothes , listening to AM radio and hunting for rabbits and squirrels to actually eat . So no , being poor isn’t the answer .

We got to this point when Reagan decided that mental health wasn't a priority in America.

It was a pretty radical change that decided to defund lots of programs (and I'll not fully defend the justice of all of them) which kept dangerous individuals in the custody of authorities.

Was it abused? You'd better believe it. Did it keep a bunch of loonies off the street? You'd better believe it. Did those loonies get over medicated? Yep. Did they kill people in mass shootings? Nope.

Thanks, Ronnie.

 

[BowlBrother85]

View attachment 458134

As far as the 4th item is concerned :

"Seriously, folks, if we were the problem, you'd know it."

^^^^ This sentence seems dismissive of the role legal gun owners have played in the ongoing problem of shooting sprees in the United States.

Stephen Paddock bought his weapons legally—and passed multiple background checks

Stephen Paddock killed 61 people in the lot across Las Vegas Blvd from Mandalay Bay on October 1, 2017. Every single one of the 33 guns which Paddock used in the attack was purchased legally.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

View attachment 458137It is absurd to train teachers to become quasi protection details but we defend other aspects of society with guns and one could make an argument that armed teachers would help as a deterrent in the short term which could lead to lives saved. In fact plenty of posters have. Ultimately it doesn't resolve this issue and I wouldn't consider it a permanent fix because I believe it's a mental health epidemic and morality issue with society. The money sent to Ukraine for military aid would have been better served here in the US. Get the mental health institutions back up and running. Funding to provide controlled secured points of entry to schools and lock down capability for each classroom. Fund mental health services which have been continuously eroded since the early 90s. Their is a lot that money could have supported. Our money is better served for our needs and our people.

So if Putin decides Ukraine was easy, I think I'll cut off natural gas to Finland and roll on in there and take over, they're not a NATO country.

You good with that?

 

[0nelilreb]

We got to this point when Reagan decided that mental health wasn't a priority in America.

It was a pretty radical change that decided to defund lots of programs (and I'll not fully defend the justice of all of them) which kept dangerous individuals in the custody of authorities.

Was it abused? You'd better believe it. Did it keep a bunch of loonies off the street? You'd better believe it. Did those loonies get over medicated? Yep. Did they kill people in mass shootings? Nope.

Thanks, Ronnie.

I believe that’s an accurate assessment and I’ll agree but it’s more than that . We all had “ the special one in our family , we knew not to mess with them or to give them guns for Christmas . They didn’t stock up on firearms , the family didn’t let it happen . Our culture shifted somewhere . We made things way too easy on our kids , school and life is far and away easier for our kids now than it ever has been but there’s a price to be paid for that shift . With our never let them get hurt or fail safe nets , we have created a society who doesn’t know how to cope with failure. Instead of get up and shake it off , you will be ok or hey sometimes we learn more from failing than winning approach, we kept them from processing the fact that failure and disappoint is as much apart of life as having what you want , and in many ways it’s healthier for you .

 

[0nelilreb]

As far as the 4th item is concerned :

"Seriously, folks, if we were the problem, you'd know it."

^^^^ This sentence seems dismissive of the role legal gun owners have played in the ongoing problem of spree shootings in the United States.

Stephen Paddock bought his weapons legally—and passed multiple background checks

Stephen Paddock killed 61 people in the lot across Las Vegas Blvd from Mandalay Bay on October 1, 2017. Every single one of the 33 guns which Paddock used in the attack were purchased legally.

Now you are getting into sci-fi “minority report “ type stuff . I’ve had hundreds of firearms ( literally hundreds ) if I had kept everyone ( I could have ) you would call me a psycho , the amount I’ve had didn’t affect my intentions in the least . It’s not a gun problem .

 

[BowlBrother85]

Now you are getting into sci-fi “minority report “ type stuff . I’ve had hundreds of firearms ( literally hundreds ) if I had kept everyone ( I could have ) you would call me a psycho , the amount I’ve had didn’t affect my intentions in the least . It’s not a gun problem .

Who the hell are you talking to? That has nothing to do with the post that you replied to.

I never said that guns were the problem. I was simply responding to another post which appeared to be suggesting that the shooters involved in these random killing sprees had obtained their firearms illegally. That is true in some cases, but clearly not all of them. Stephen Paddock's Mandalay Bay attack being a prime example.

 

[508mikey]

Barry is trash Texas school shooting: Obama clobbered for linking Uvalde massacre to two-year mark of George Floyd's murder