19 students, 3 adults dead in Texas elementary shooting.

[Dirty Vol]

So if Putin decides Ukraine was easy, I think I'll cut off natural gas to Finland and roll on in there and take over, they're not a NATO country.

You good with that?

No I'm not good with any of it. Are you good with sending 53 billion that's Billion with a B to another country when we have our own failures and shortcomings to take cae of?

Not to mention the money is being sent To another country with no traceability or accountability on what it's used for or how its used? Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in the world.... it's our money not the governments....

If you do it for Ukraine are you going to do it for Finland what about if putin continues. Let's not kid ourselves at that point we are looking at the beginning of WW3.

 

[luthervol]

The root of evil is easy to explain but you reject the cure.

????
I guess you're talking religion.
Does that only apply to the past 2100 years?

 

[McDad]

I still think if we treated shooters like streakers at sporting events...by denying them the noteriety, then the desire to achieve their 15 minutes of fame will be placed somewhere else. Shooters should be only identified as anonymous Uvalde shooter or some such.

 

[GreyWolf1129]

Yep, went to an A/S class. We ran scenarios with sim rounds in an old, unused school. I was told by my SGT if this ever happens and you don't enter you're a coward. Loved that guy, I firmly believe he'd walk into incoming sniper fire to save somebody. However, I will say I doubt every officer has had that training.

Not to defend the delay, or the officers, but one observation here. Based on everything I have read, it appears that the shooter barricaded himself in a locked classroom. This changes things. Unless the responding officers knew how to breach the door and had the appropriate tools, which it is unlikely that they did, then yes… entry would be delayed.

This was a literal no-win situation for responding officers, and a tactical nightmare. This is why, in my opinion, the key is to make the school itself a hard target. Make it hard for the bad guy to get in. This may give responding units the critical time necessary to arrive and eliminate the threat.

 

[Rickyvol77]

I would think they could hear shots being fired in the school. Why not go in? Is setting up a perimeter more important than stopping active killing that is happening?

Have you ever attempted to enter a barricaded room with a gunman?

 

[mr.checkerboards]

We gotta do better training with our police forces. There's no way their response should be form a perimeter and wait for a tactical teams, especially when children are involved. The SRO who saw him should've followed, the cops chasing him when he crashed should have followed. This is just poor training and rules.

 

[hog88]

Not to defend the delay, or the officers, but one observation here. Based on everything I have read, it appears that the shooter barricaded himself in a locked classroom. This changes things. Unless the responding officers knew how to breach the door and had the appropriate tools, which it is unlikely that they did, then yes… entry would be delayed.

This was a literal no-win situation for responding officers, and a tactical nightmare. This is why, in my opinion, the key is to make the school itself a hard target. Make it hard for the bad guy to get in. This may give responding units the critical time necessary to arrive and eliminate the threat.

They ended up getting a key from one of the school employees.

 

[Rickyvol77]

They should have walked (maybe jogged) to the office and gotten a key.
If he was barricaded in, I guess it means the rest of the school was safe.

You can’t assume that. All buildings and areas must be cleared. You always assume other shooters, weapons, even bombs

 

[allvol123]

We gotta do better training with our police forces. There's no way their response should be form a perimeter and wait for a tactical teams, especially when children are involved. The SRO who saw him should've followed, the cops chasing him when he crashed should have followed. This is just poor training and rules.

2 officers were shot by him before he barricaded himself. I don’t understand if this was inside the school or outside. Outside I assume.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Most homeless are drug users.

Most drug users aren't homeless.

Next.

Agree. Yet crime follows both

 

[hog88]

Have you ever attempted to enter a barricaded room with a gunman?

Yes.

 

[BreatheUT]

So what I'm learning is an officer saw him go in to the school, and did nothing. He then stood outside and prevented screaming parents from entering the building. The shooter was in the school for some 40 minutes murdering children while the police were outside. Doing nothing. Those parents had to listen to the sounds of their children being murdered while the police did nothing to stop it except hold them back.

What a world we live in.

I do hope a clearer picture comes out about the actual details. We are hearing about an SRO or someone that didn't engage. Did he not have a gun, was he scared or is there another reason?

 

[Rickyvol77]

C’mon, Ricky…you’ve had the same training I have. There us no perimeter at an A/S scene; that’s the old Columbine mindset. It’s “one, two, go” or “one go” if the second responder is not there within seconds. The tactical key here is confront…contain…and THEN eliminate the threat. Every second counts.

I’m discussing JUST the complaint of “they wouldn’t let the parents rush in and were stopping them”

 

[rjd970]

Not to defend the delay, or the officers, but one observation here. Based on everything I have read, it appears that the shooter barricaded himself in a locked classroom. This changes things. Unless the responding officers knew how to breach the door and had the appropriate tools, which it is unlikely that they did, then yes… entry would be delayed.

This was a literal no-win situation for responding officers, and a tactical nightmare. This is why, in my opinion, the key is to make the school itself a hard target. Make it hard for the bad guy to get in. This may give responding units the critical time necessary to arrive and eliminate the threat.

I would like to see all the facts when they come out. Evidently there was a SRO that engaged the shooter before he entered or right after, to no avail. Then the shooter barricades himself in a classroom with 40 minutes to do what he wants.

By all accounts this is a gender confused legitimate crazy kid with no known (at least at this time) professional shooting or tactical training that bests a trained SRO when entering the school and then manages to create a tactical nightmare scenario that allows him time to start shooting kids and teachers at will.

Again - I'm willing to wait on the facts. But right now it seems we are dealing with either a tactically proficient criminal or completely inept first responders.

 

[Hoosier_Vol]

 

[rjd970]

Have you ever attempted to enter a barricaded room with a gunman?

No - but I'm not trained to do it either and it isn't my job.

 

[Rickyvol77]

I think the risk of the gun being misused far outweighs any potential benefit.

This is not the case. Defensive use of a firearm successfully far outnumbers criminal acts committed with firearms

 

[allvol123]

No thanks. Fund this for you local school. If you want it.

 

[luthervol]

They ended up getting a key from one of the school employees.

Which they could have easily done in the very beginning.

 

[Rickyvol77]

No - but I'm not trained to do it either and it isn't my job.

Do you think every border patrol officer is trained how to defeat a locked barricades metal door with no tools?

 

[Ttucke11]

Stats check out. Very on point.

 

[utvolpj]

You mean marketing slogans on a police cruiser do not outweigh legal precedent???

 

[luthervol]

You can’t assume that. All buildings and areas must be cleared. You always assume other shooters, weapons, even bombs

Nope. They had clear reason to believe he was a lone shooter. And clear reason to believe he was in the process of shooting innocent children.

 

[utvolpj]

So what I'm learning is an officer saw him go in to the school, and did nothing. He then stood outside and prevented screaming parents from entering the building. The shooter was in the school for some 40 minutes murdering children while the police were outside. Doing nothing. Those parents had to listen to the sounds of their children being murdered while the police did nothing to stop it except hold them back.

What a world we live in.

I don't understand how that's possible. Not sure how they could be held back and not sure how an officer could do it

 

[turdherder11]

Schools need bullet proof classroom doors. AR plate. That can lock with a click of a button by a teacher. Not sure what to do about the windows tho. Maybe bar them?