19 students, 3 adults dead in Texas elementary shooting.

#2,180
#2,180
happy-go_vol said:
As long as humans have evil in their heart, there will be killings. Want killings cut down, start will school and teach prayer and objective truths. You'll never support that. You'd rather blame some object.
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Organized compulsory prayer has no place in school. None. We've tried that, and it failed miserably.
 
#2,182
#2,182
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm not so sure about that anymore. I lean more on putting fathers back in the homes, restoring traditional family structure and going back to traditional values.

More cops and arming teachers is not going to do s^^t. We are in a spiritual war in this country right now.
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We don't agree on much, but I find it harder to dispel this notion as the years go by. I wouldn't necessarily label it as a "spiritual" war as much as it is a philosophical/moral/cultural war.

As such, there isn't a government solution. We can't legislate our way out it. As much as I disdain organized religion, I am not sure what else, short of catastrophe, can buttress society in wake of the waning influence of organized religion. I obviously believe, on a personal level, for there to be superior ways for moral upbringing outside of religion (particularly organized religion). Unfortunately, although I strongly believe this to be the case for individuals, as the years pass, this doesn't seem to hold for society as a whole. I think there is something to be said for a force which unifies expectations of responsibility (personal, familial, and society at large), moral clarity, and fostering a sense of community (even if I disagree with the tenets). It doesn't hurt to have a notion of justice above and beyond what can be carried out here on our Earthly realm.

The dissolution of the multigenerational family living structures and the nuclear family, along with rise of social media (particularly among children), is leading us on path of unsustainable societal decay. School shootings are just a symptom and attempts at gun control are mere Band-Aid remedies. The root cause sickness is much, much deeper.
 
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#2,184
#2,184
If we are to reduce both sides of the argument to their most basic level, each are correct. It is what makes these discussions untenable in our soundbite driven media.

On the pro-gun control side, the Second Amendment merely mentions the right to bear arms. Nuclear bombs are arms. We wisely don't let Billy Bob down the street possess weapons of mass destruction due to the overwhelming amount of harm a single individual can do. By the nature of modern arms, we have to weight the amount of damage one can do in a short amount of time (before possible intervening forces) with constitutional right to bear them. On the pro-gun side, a gun or knife has never got up and shot someone by itself. They inanimate objects. Guns have been ubiquitous in our culture (even in students' cars at school) of decades. Since Columbine and progressing to today, something has changed with those have access to guns.

The wildcard in this debate is the spirit of the Second Amendment. It not a coincidence that the right to bear arms was enshrined in the second amendment of the Bill of Rights. It wasn't to hunt or even defend yourself against your neighbor. It was specifically enacted as an practical, actionable guarantee to the people in order to protect the other rights given in the Bill of Rights. On the one hand, we live in a modern, stable, and wealthy country where a (serious) armed revolt against government seems like a low probability event. On the other hand, given a sufficient timeline, the probability of a (serious) armed revolt against government goes to 1. As the old adage goes, it is better to have it and not need it versus needing it and not having it.
 
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#2,185
#2,185
hndog609 said:
Own this with it

‘I had to do what I had to do:’ Florida woman, 69, shoots, kills intruder
Resident fatally shoots suspected burglar in Walnut; 2nd suspect sought | KTLA
Brownsboro homeowner armed with AR-15 stops burglary suspect
Hatchet attack in Ohio state park leads to shots fired
South Carolina Boy, 13, Uses Mother's Gun To Fend Off Two Criminals Who Were Breaking Into His Home While He Was Alone, Fatally Shoots Burglar, Scares Off Second Suspect: Police - Truth Tent
MAN SHOT AND KILLED AFTER FORCING HIS WAY INTO A HOME IN LENOIR CITY
Atlanta ride share driver shoots alleged police impersonator making phony traffic in Target parking lot
Homeowner kills 2 intruders, holds 2 more at gunpoint for police | WANE 15
Armed robber on a bike killed by man he was trying to rob in South Philadelphia, police say
Man shot intruder at home on West Side; suspect later escaped from ambulance, police say
Tacoma hotel employee shoots man who threatened 3 employees with a knife

All these are just from this month and there is a 100% chance it's a drop in the bucket compared to the total lawful defense usages out there.
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They don’t want the truth.
 
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#2,186
#2,186
Franklin Pierce said:
How did it fail?
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While Madalyn O'Hair certainly had something to do with it, there was also significant infighting between Protestants, Catholics, and Jews. How do you equitably provide prayer that satisfies the major players? What do you do about adherents of other beliefs, or no belief? These were questions many school systems struggled with in larger communities. In smaller communities with large Protestant populations, does the Lord's Prayer mention debts or trespasses? Do we pray to Christ, God, Abba, Abba Father, etc? It became a situation of death by a thousand papercuts.

Does that mean I am against religious expression in schools? Absolutely not. I don't believe a teacher should hang the Christian Flag any more than they should a Pride flag, but having a Bible on their desk or in their bookshelf should in no way be considered Indoctrination. I also support groups such as Prayer around the Flagpole and Fellowship for Christian Athletes, which are student led and voluntary and often do very good work for the school community.
 
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#2,190
#2,190
OrangeTsar said:
No do the victims of abortion. (hint you will need to draw a lot more kids, in excess of 20 million for starters, so you better get busy)
Go ahead, we‘ll wait
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Yall seem to care more about unborn children with hardly any brain function than actual living children. Weird.

Well they died in a school shooting. Nothing we can really do, but at least they weren't aborted.
 
#2,191
#2,191
AshG said:
While Madalyn O'Hair certainly had something to do with it, there was also significant infighting between Protestants, Catholics, and Jews. How do you equitably provide prayer that satisfies the major players? What do you do about adherents of other beliefs, or no belief? These were questions many school systems struggled with in larger communities. In smaller communities with large Protestant populations, does the Lord's Prayer mention debts or trespasses? Do we pray to Christ, God, Abba, Abba Father, etc? It became a situation of death by a thousand papercuts.

Does that mean I am against religious expression in schools? Absolutely not. I don't believe a teacher should hang the Christian Flag any more than they should a Pride flag, but having a Bible on their desk or in their bookshelf should in no way be considered Indoctrination. I also support groups such as Prayer around the Flagpole and Fellowship for Christian Athletes, which are student led and voluntary and often do very good work for the school community.
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The one prayer I remember seemed pretty inoffensive „God is Great, God is good. Let us thank him for our food“
Strangely enough, Protestant/Catholic conflict seemed to never be a problem in my small Appalachian coal community (I remember how surprised I was in the ninth grade when I met my first Catholic classmate ever)
 
#2,193
#2,193
K-town Vol Fan said:
Yall seem to care more about unborn children with hardly any brain function than actual living children. Weird.

Well they died in a school shooting. Nothing we can really do, but at least they weren't aborted.
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You have no idea about what I care about or don’t so don’t even go there friend. I have receipts
 
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#2,197
#2,197
K-town Vol Fan said:
Yall seem to care more about unborn children with hardly any brain function than actual living children. Weird.

Well they died in a school shooting. Nothing we can really do, but at least they weren't aborted.
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Some of us think a life is a life , some are trying to separate that and say only one of those matter .. the ones with most firearms oddly enough, fall into that first category.
 
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