19 Year Old Dies After Denial From Transplant List For Trace THC

#226
#226
utvolpj said:
So the kid is likely told to avoid certain behaviors to receive an organ transplant that will save his life. Kid ignores all advice and does it anyway. Then when he is denied the transplant people place the blame the government? :question:
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The kid could have stopped smoking the night he was hospitalized or even before that. You're missing the point that the he could have tested positive for THC even though he hadn't smoked it in 4 weeks. These tests are not accurate in determining if/when you last smoked or if you're even high for that matter. They're not specific at all.

InVOLuntary said:
I didn't say smoking weed on that occasion caused his pneumonia. Although it very well could have as different people have different reactions to the fungi. I was making the point that if he's actively smoking pot, it could cause complications for a transplant. Similar to why you wouldn't transplant a liver into someone that was actively drinking.
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I'd like to see some proof that THC or even lingering THC in the fat cells of a human body have actually been the cause of a transplant failure and not simply frowned upon and banned by UNOS simply because it's an illegal substance.

kiddiedoc said:
I already told you that it wasn't.

That's a bibliography from the most current, comprehensive medical report on cannibus use.

It kills me that any suggestion that marijuana might have any deleterious effect is immediately met by pot advocates arguing something that wasn't even the point. Almost as if their reasoning is impaired....
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Every substance all the way down to food products that a human could possibly consume can be proven to have some deleterious effect on the human body especially if consumed in abundance rather than in moderation. It would be stupid to argue against that fact. I would be curious to know if any knowledge that you've garnered regarding weed is first hand experience or simply from research and medical journals? About the only point I have a real problem with that you made or quoted from some other source is that weed has been known to cause mental illness or even Schizophrenia. As a medical professional yourself and knowing how difficult the diagnosis and treatment of mental disorders is(which is more like trial and error) compared to the science behind a medical diagnosis you must have some doubt of your own to any study claiming weed actually caused mental disorders or Schizophrenia. That's a giant leap in and of itself. It's far more likely an individual, based on genetics, was either prone to or destined to get Schizophrenia rather than it ever being caused by marijuana consumption.
 
#227
#227
Thursday Update.......

giphy.gif


kiddie doc = Nolan Ryan

stoners ITT = Ventura
 
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#232
#232
Coug said:
I'd like to see some proof that THC or even lingering THC in the fat cells of a human body have actually been the cause of a transplant failure and not simply frowned upon and banned by UNOS simply because it's an illegal substance.
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InVOLuntary said:
I didn't say smoking weed on that occasion caused his pneumonia. Although it very well could have as different people have different reactions to the fungi. I was making the point that if he's actively smoking pot, it could cause complications for a transplant. Similar to why you wouldn't transplant a liver into someone that was actively drinking.
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I bolded the part that was important in this post.
 
#234
#234
Coug said:
I would be curious to know if any knowledge that you've garnered regarding weed is first hand experience or simply from research and medical journals? About the only point I have a real problem with that you made or quoted from some other source is that weed has been known to cause mental illness or even Schizophrenia. As a medical professional yourself and knowing how difficult the diagnosis and treatment of mental disorders is(which is more like trial and error) compared to the science behind a medical diagnosis you must have some doubt of your own to any study claiming weed actually caused mental disorders or Schizophrenia. That's a giant leap in and of itself. It's far more likely an individual, based on genetics, was either prone to or destined to get Schizophrenia rather than it ever being caused by marijuana consumption.
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To the first question: yes, I have first-hand experience with marijuana addiction, withdrawal, and psychosis in heavy users. I also have close friends that practice in the fields of neurology, psychiatry, and addiction.

As to the question of correlation vs causality, there is now conclusive evidence from longitudinal studies to show an increased risk for the development of mental illness, especially schizophrenia, in heavy users, most pronounced when begun in early adolescence. This is not surprising, given the potent neuronal effects of cannabis and the cruciality of that age in development. The fact that a dose-response effect can be demonstrated argues most strongly against use simply being more common in those predisposed for mental illness.
 
#235
#235
kiddiedoc said:
To the first question: yes, I have first-hand experience with marijuana addiction, withdrawal, and psychosis in heavy users. I also have close friends that practice in the fields of neurology, psychiatry, and addiction.
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Marijuana is not addictive!

I know, I read it here on VN.
 
#236
#236
kiddiedoc said:
To the first question: yes, I have first-hand experience with marijuana addiction, withdrawal, and psychosis in heavy users. I also have close friends that practice in the fields of neurology, psychiatry, and addiction.

As to the question of correlation vs causality, there is now conclusive evidence from longitudinal studies to show an increased risk for the development of mental illness, especially schizophrenia, in heavy users, most pronounced when begun in early adolescence. This is not surprising, given the potent neuronal effects of cannabis and the cruciality of that age in development. The fact that a dose-response effect can be demonstrated argues most strongly against use simply being more common in those predisposed for mental illness.
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And people that eat too much have an increased risk of being fat.

It is ridiculous that marijuana has been proven to reduce pain in patients, typically helping to reduce the quantity of prescribed, dangerous pain management alternatives (opioids), yet those needing a transplant get bumped way down the list if they have the "illicit" THC present in their system.
 
#238
#238
This thread should probably end. No one is getting anywhere, and people who smoke marijuana don't know what longitudinal studies are. You can say the "car is red," and someone on here would argue with you.

I shouldn't be surprised that we went from someone being denied a transplant with THC in his system to discussing the legality of marijuana when that's not the issue in the first place. Just stop insanity.
 
#240
#240
VolGee4 said:
This thread should probably end. No one is getting anywhere, and people who smoke marijuana don't know what longitudinal studies are. You can say the "car is red," and someone on here would argue with you.

I shouldn't be surprised that we went from someone being denied a transplant with THC in his system to discussing the legality of marijuana when that's not the issue in the first place. Just stop insanity.
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Lol, did you seriously just say that people who use marijuana don't know what a longitudinal study is? Do you not realize how many highly educated people use marijuana?
 
#242
#242
kiddiedoc said:
To the first question: yes, I have first-hand experience with marijuana addiction, withdrawal, and psychosis in heavy users. I also have close friends that practice in the fields of neurology, psychiatry, and addiction.

As to the question of correlation vs causality, there is now conclusive evidence from longitudinal studies to show an increased risk for the development of mental illness, especially schizophrenia, in heavy users, most pronounced when begun in early adolescence. This is not surprising, given the potent neuronal effects of cannabis and the cruciality of that age in development. The fact that a dose-response effect can be demonstrated argues most strongly against use simply being more common in those predisposed for mental illness.
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Can you provide an example of this study? Everything I have seen only showed a correlation. Which could be explained away as "people with these issues are self medicating with marijuana"
 
#243
#243
Behr said:
Marijuana is not addictive!

I know, I read it here on VN.
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Depends on your definition of addictive.

If you're using the same definition that says gambling is addictive, then sure. But by that definition, anything that is rewarding to the brain is "addictive".
 
#244
#244
jjay2518 said:
Lol, did you seriously just say that people who use marijuana don't know what a longitudinal study is? Do you not realize how many highly educated people use marijuana?
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I knew that was coming. It was in jest. The problem is that people don't care to learn what has been done and have a one track mind about the issue.

I really didn't even give my thoughts about the legality of marijuana because it doesn't matter in this case. But that's where it went.
 
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#245
#245
Vol8188 said:
Depends on your definition of addictive.

If you're using the same definition that says gambling is addictive, then sure. But by that definition, anything that is rewarding to the brain is "addictive".
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Poor attempt at humor on my part.

I've genuinely taken part in conversations on this subject in the past. Found it to be a waste of time.
 
#246
#246
Vol8188 said:
Depends on your definition of addictive.

If you're using the same definition that says gambling is addictive, then sure. But by that definition, anything that is rewarding to the brain is "addictive".
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A careful defining of words and articulation of key concepts would go a long way in this thread. Both sides seem to be generally talking past one another.
 
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#247
#247
kiddiedoc said:
To the first question: yes, I have first-hand experience with marijuana addiction, withdrawal, and psychosis in heavy users. I also have close friends that practice in the fields of neurology, psychiatry, and addiction.

As to the question of correlation vs causality, there is now conclusive evidence from longitudinal studies to show an increased risk for the development of mental illness, especially schizophrenia, in heavy users, most pronounced when begun in early adolescence. This is not surprising, given the potent neuronal effects of cannabis and the cruciality of that age in development. The fact that a dose-response effect can be demonstrated argues most strongly against use simply being more common in those predisposed for mental illness.
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I might be more inclined to buy it if the drug in question were LSD or Methamphetamine as those are far more potent and damaging. I'd love to see the details of the studies that lead these doctors to feel like they could draw a connection between Marijuana and mental illness which includes Schizophrenia. The subjects I'd be most interested in are those that actually presented with signs or symptoms of Schizophrenia after said long term use. I'd go through their family history with a fine toothed comb to see if there were ANY family members with a history of mental disorders.
 
#248
#248
Coug said:
I might be more inclined to buy it if the drug in question were LSD or Methamphetamine as those are far more potent and damaging. I'd love to see the details of the studies that lead these doctors to feel like they could draw a connection between Marijuana and mental illness which includes Schizophrenia. The subjects I'd be most interested in are those that actually presented with signs or symptoms of Schizophrenia after said long term use. I'd go through their family history with a fine toothed comb to see if there were ANY family members with a history of mental disorders.
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I didn't look at the studies but I'd be interested to know if the marijuana users that developed mental health abnormalities had a history with those other drugs you mentioned too or whether they strictly used marijuana.
 
#249
#249
InVOLuntary said:
I didn't look at the studies but I'd be interested to know if the marijuana users that developed mental health abnormalities had a history with those other drugs you mentioned too or whether they strictly used marijuana.
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Like I've been saying:

You also can't rule out that they were drawn to marijuana because of their mental health issues.
 
#250
#250
Vol8188 said:
After years and years of government lies about marijuana surely you understand why no one believes their claims. When I was a kid I was told it was 5x worse than tobacco when it came to cancer

And I would like for you to like something about the adverse psychological claims involving marijuana
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I have a feeling we are about the same age and I literally never heard that weed caused cancer before you brought it up. the pro pot crowd has got to be the single greatest users of straw men. and weed doesn't have to be as bad as tobacco to be considered a carcinogen.

When things we need for survival (food, water and air) can kill us/harm us I have no idea how you can argue that something that messes with our brain chemistry is harmless.
 
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