2013 F Austin Nichols (Memphis Briarcrest)

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PoochPunt3rdDown said:
If true, and I trust BTO would only post something of substance, it still amazes me the work Cuonzo has done in recruiting. He's far exceeding any coach this university has ever seen in bringing in elite talent at this stage of his tenure...
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Not taking anything away from Counzo, but Bruce brought in Ramar, Duke, Chism, Tabb and Johnson right off the bat. That is part of why everyone was so impressed with him along with the on court results. However, I believe Counzo may continue to blow us away with his effort and consistently knock down walls in Memphis.
 
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bleedingTNorange said:
Yea I didn't wanna start a thread for it, but Galilee put out some news today. Seems we should here the official word in a couple weeks.

Barring some unforeseen changes he's all Vol.
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This is fantastic if true. Hubbs and Nichols are the main two I wanted with this class. Everything else is a cherry on top.
 
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jknox33 said:
Not taking anything away from Counzo, but Bruce brought in Ramar, Duke, Chism, Tabb and Johnson right off the bat. That is part of why everyone was so impressed with him along with the on court results. However, I believe Counzo may continue to blow us away with his effort and consistently knock down walls in Memphis.
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cUOnzo

And fwiw that was pearls second class not first, point remains though. However, given what we have seen to this point I think CCM will be a much better evaluator of talent. You look at those 5 guys from that class and only ONE of them was here more than 2 years, and was also the only ONE to ever amount to anything basketball wise. I think this class of Landry, Hubbs, Davis and Nichols will fair MUCH better.
 
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CAVol said:
This is fantastic if true. Hubbs and Nichols are the main two I wanted with this class. Everything else is a cherry on top.
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Those 2 are special players in their own right. However, when you put them on the court together they're something on a whole different level.

I truly think that if we add Nichols, everyone we expect to return returns, including stokes...that next years team could be UT's best shot at a title in the history of the program.
 
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jknox33 said:
Not taking anything away from Counzo, but Bruce brought in Ramar, Duke, Chism, Tabb and Johnson right off the bat. That is part of why everyone was so impressed with him along with the on court results. However, I believe Counzo may continue to blow us away with his effort and consistently knock down walls in Memphis.
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I was hoping someone else would bring this up in this thread. Cam was also in that class, fwiw. Buuuuuut, I'm fairly certain many other teams backed off on Ramar because he was such an obvious character liability. I loved Duke but, we all know how that went down. Tabb and Johnson, really? Chism was so awesome and his Youtube vids were the bombest things any Vol did in the last decade, including Swiper's raps.

That being said, look as Jarnell, Hubbs, and Nichols and tell me the one thing they all have in common. All are 5*, yes. We all know that. All are from Tennessee, yes. Ditto. The most important quality they all 3 seem to have that supersedes the others, imo, is that they are high character, hard working, class-class-class young men who will win, represent the University of Tennessee exceptionally, and all go to the NBA. That grand class of Pearl's had not one NBA player on it's roster. Only barring injury do I see this happening with any of these Cuonzo's 3 5*. That was one of the biggest criticisms I could never argue against regarding Pearl's abilities as a coach. The only guy who played from him and went to the NBA was Tobias, and Tobias would have done that anywhere and, realistically, did it in spite of all the coaching detritus he saw in his one season as a Vol....
 
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bleedingTNorange said:
cUOnzo

And fwiw that was pearls second class not first, point remains though. However, given what we have seen to this point I think CCM will be a much better evaluator of talent. You look at those 5 guys from that class and only ONE of them was here more than 2 years, and was also the only ONE to ever amount to anything basketball wise. I think this class of Landry, Hubbs, Davis and Nichols will fair MUCH better.
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this is very true
 
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PoochPunt3rdDown said:
I was hoping someone else would bring this up in this thread. Cam was also in that class, fwiw. Buuuuuut, I'm fairly certain many other teams backed off on Ramar because he was such an obvious character liability. I loved Duke but, we all know how that went down. Tabb and Johnson, really? Chism was so awesome and his Youtube vids were the bombest things any Vol did in the last decade, including Swiper's raps.

That being said, look as Jarnell, Hubbs, and Nichols and tell me the one thing they all have in common. All are 5*, yes. We all know that. All are from Tennessee, yes. Ditto. The most important quality they all 3 seem to have that supersedes the others, imo, is that they are high character, hard working, class-class-class young men who will win, represent the University of Tennessee exceptionally, and all go to the NBA. That grand class of Pearl's had not one NBA player on it's roster. Only barring injury do I see this happening with any of these Cuonzo's 3 5*. That was one of the biggest criticisms I could never argue against regarding Pearl's abilities as a coach. The only guy who played from him and went to the NBA was Tobias, and Tobias would have done that anywhere and, realistically, did it in spite of all the coaching detritus he saw in his one season as a Vol....
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and this
 
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C.J. Watson played for pearl and made the NBA. not his recruit, but he certainly made him a better player than Buzz ball did.
 
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Defintely seems those rumors were false about informing K he was committing to Tennessee...

Nichols had in home visits with both Memphis and Vanderbilt over the weekend.
 
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bleedingTNorange said:
cUOnzo

And fwiw that was pearls second class not first, point remains though. However, given what we have seen to this point I think CCM will be a much better evaluator of talent. You look at those 5 guys from that class and only ONE of them was here more than 2 years, and was also the only ONE to ever amount to anything basketball wise. I think this class of Landry, Hubbs, Davis and Nichols will fair MUCH better.
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I think Cuonzo is a great evaluator of talent, but I don't know if I could say that he will be a "much better evaluator of talent" than Bruce in certain terms. I think Bruce was a very good evaluator of talent in that he was in on guys early and often that he eventually whiffed on. Even taking a guy like BWilliams was a risk that eventually became rewarding. There are 2 things I feel Bruce really had difficulty with. One is that he eventually got away from recruiting his style and began taking long athletes instead of guys that were made for his system. Second, he was not that great evaluator of character.

Bruce's 2nd class was the cornerstone of his time here. Please don't forget how special they were when they were on the court. Although they flamed out in the end d/t character issues, Ramar was coming into his own and was very good prior to his dismissal and the same was with Duke as well. Tabb was a steady role player that you always need. Chism became an all-time great Vol. Johnson was the only guy that really couldn't cut it on the court and he was even nationally ranked. That class helped the Vols climb into the national spotlight and helped us (along with Lofton, Watson, and Smith) beat the Memphis, Texas, etc and make us a national brand. I enjoyed Bruce's time here and everything he did for UT, but I do also believe Martin is a good evaluator of both talent and character and he will eventually surpass what Bruce did (yes, I know Bruce upset two top ranked teams, owned the national championship UF squads, brought us to a #1 ranking, our only Elite Eight, and consistent Top 25 rankings, etc).
 
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jknox33 said:
I think Cuonzo is a great evaluator of talent, but I don't know if I could say that he will be a "much better evaluator of talent" than Bruce in certain terms. I think Bruce was a very good evaluator of talent in that he was in on guys early and often that he eventually whiffed on. Even taking a guy like BWilliams was a risk that eventually became rewarding. There are 2 things I feel Bruce really had difficulty with. One is that he eventually got away from recruiting his style and began taking long athletes instead of guys that were made for his system. Second, he was not that great evaluator of character.

Bruce's 2nd class was the cornerstone of his time here. Please don't forget how special they were when they were on the court. Although they flamed out in the end d/t character issues, Ramar was coming into his own and was very good prior to his dismissal and the same was with Duke as well. Tabb was a steady role player that you always need. Chism became an all-time great Vol. Johnson was the only guy that really couldn't cut it on the court and he was even nationally ranked. That class helped the Vols climb into the national spotlight and helped us (along with Lofton, Watson, and Smith) beat the Memphis, Texas, etc and make us a national brand. I enjoyed Bruce's time here and everything he did for UT, but I do also believe Martin is a good evaluator of both talent and character and he will eventually surpass what Bruce did (yes, I know Bruce upset two top ranked teams, owned the national championship UF squads, brought us to a #1 ranking, our only Elite Eight, and consistent Top 25 rankings, etc).
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Just my opinion, but I think Bruce realized that a half-court type of team would give the program a better chance at winning a championship. The full-court pressure, run and gun style is fun to watch, and it can be effective. But I think it's a little gimmicky, and good teams know how to beat it. That's the problem you run into when you're trying to make a deep tournament run. Helped us reach the elite eight, too.
 
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Yea that class gave us one good year, I expect much more from this 2013 classes time here at Tennessee. Whether its because of off court issues or not, the point remains the same that only ONE guy out f that class amounted to anything, and once again I think this 2013 class will have many more than that.

I admit, I was including character evaluation in saying evaluator of talent, I should've just said Martin is a better player evaluator and that'd have covered all the bases. You're hard pressed to find a Pearl recruit who had good success while under Pearl, Tobias & Chism are really the only two I can think of.
 
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MannyD said:
Just my opinion, but I think Bruce realized that a half-court type of team would give the program a better chance at winning a championship. The full-court pressure, run and gun style is fun to watch, and it can be effective. But I think it's a little gimmicky, and good teams know how to beat it. That's the problem you run into when you're trying to make a deep tournament run. Helped us reach the elite eight, too.
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Yes, he eventually realized it. He was forced into the half-court game that year with the whole drug bust/weapons fiasco that left him short handed. He found a line-up that worked well and it was a half-court style line-up that eventually took us on the Elite Eight run. The next season ("The Year of Tobias"), we continued to play somewhat of a half-court game and was promised to go back to the full-court press style if the staff was to continue at UT. Bruce was going to try to blend the two styles together, but he wasn't retained and Martin was hired.
 
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bleedingTNorange said:
Yea that class gave us one good year, I expect much more from this 2013 classes time here at Tennessee. Whether its because of off court issues or not, the point remains the same that only ONE guy out f that class amounted to anything, and once again I think this 2013 class will have many more than that.

I admit, I was including character evaluation in saying evaluator of talent, I should've just said Martin is a better player evaluator and that'd have covered all the bases. You're hard pressed to find a Pearl recruit who had good success while under Pearl, Tobias & Chism are really the only two I can think of.
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As far as his own recruited players, I'd agree with that only with the understanding of what "good success" meant. If it means the NBA, absolutely agree. But I also feel that Scotty (although a headcase at times) had a good career. Tatum was very successful, but slowed by injuries. Bobby Maze will go down as one of the most beloved PGs here. BWilliams succeeded well beyond what I figured he would have. I'm sure there are others too. Aside from guys that Pearl recruited, Lofton, Jajuan and CJ all flourished under Pearl. Who knows if they would have had the same results under anyone else though. Really, I guess I have a soft spot for many of Pearl's teams. After enduring the up and down roller coaster of the Houston, O'Neil, Green and Buzz years, the Pearl teams were consistently good and made me more excited to watch the basketball team. I'm one of those guys that prefer basketball over football and we endured many seasons that are parallelled to the Dooley years. I'm just glad the basketball team is still on the up and up.
 
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jknox33 said:
As far as his own recruited players, I'd agree with that only with the understanding of what "good success" meant. If it means the NBA, absolutely agree. But I also feel that Scotty (although a headcase at times) had a good career. Tatum was very successful, but slowed by injuries. Bobby Maze will go down as one of the most beloved PGs here. BWilliams succeeded well beyond what I figured he would have. I'm sure there are others too. Aside from guys that Pearl recruited, Lofton, Jajuan and CJ all flourished under Pearl. Who knows if they would have had the same results under anyone else though. Really, I guess I have a soft spot for many of Pearl's teams. After enduring the up and down roller coaster of the Houston, O'Neil, Green and Buzz years, the Pearl teams were consistently good and made me more excited to watch the basketball team. I'm one of those guys that prefer basketball over football and we endured many seasons that are parallelled to the Dooley years. I'm just glad the basketball team is still on the up and up.
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When I say good I mean they performed as or better than expected...

Scotty did not
Tatum did not
Maze wasn't a pearl recruit(juco, I'm talking unproven HS guys)
Lofton over performed
Jajuan same
Williams same
CJ wasn't a pearl recruit

So yea, I'd add lofton, jajuan and Brian to Harris and Chism...so 5 guys he recruited out of high school who he was able to properly develop? Out of how many? Not a good percent.
 
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bleedingTNorange said:
When I say good I mean they performed as or better than expected...

Scotty did not
Tatum did not
Maze wasn't a pearl recruit(juco, I'm talking unproven HS guys)
Lofton over performed
Jajuan same
Williams same
CJ wasn't a pearl recruit

So yea, I'd add lofton, jajuan and Brian to Harris and Chism...so 5 guys he recruited out of high school who he was able to properly develop? Out of how many? Not a good percent.
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lofton wasnt a pearl recruit and jajuan walked on under Buzz Peterson....Trae Golden is a Pearl recruit though....Which CCM recruits have exceeded their expectations so far? The answer is none so we cant state he is doing a better job yet.

Plus it is always open to discussion whether it is up to the individual player to keep improving or the coach that develops players?
 
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Buzz Peterson > Bruce Pearl

As far as recruiting goes. Pretty glaring when you look back how poor a recruiter Bruce really was.
 
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TooLegit2Quit said:
Buzz Peterson > Bruce Pearl

As far as recruiting goes. Pretty glaring when you look back how poor a recruiter Bruce really was.
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LOL he missed on some guys but you dont make six straight tournaments and be a horrible recruiter.... He missed on several guys but u dont have to hit on many to have a good basketball team...If he had hit on a few more we would have been a great basketball team. Buzz Peterson? Really?
 
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jknox33 said:
I think Cuonzo is a great evaluator of talent, but I don't know if I could say that he will be a "much better evaluator of talent" than Bruce in certain terms. I think Bruce was a very good evaluator of talent in that he was in on guys early and often that he eventually whiffed on. Even taking a guy like BWilliams was a risk that eventually became rewarding. There are 2 things I feel Bruce really had difficulty with. One is that he eventually got away from recruiting his style and began taking long athletes instead of guys that were made for his system. Second, he was not that great evaluator of character.

Bruce's 2nd class was the cornerstone of his time here. Please don't forget how special they were when they were on the court. Although they flamed out in the end d/t character issues, Ramar was coming into his own and was very good prior to his dismissal and the same was with Duke as well. Tabb was a steady role player that you always need. Chism became an all-time great Vol. Johnson was the only guy that really couldn't cut it on the court and he was even nationally ranked. That class helped the Vols climb into the national spotlight and helped us (along with Lofton, Watson, and Smith) beat the Memphis, Texas, etc and make us a national brand. I enjoyed Bruce's time here and everything he did for UT, but I do also believe Martin is a good evaluator of both talent and character and he will eventually surpass what Bruce did (yes, I know Bruce upset two top ranked teams, owned the national championship UF squads, brought us to a #1 ranking, our only Elite Eight, and consistent Top 25 rankings, etc).
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Well said. I will add that Bruce fell in love with the "athlete" and out of love with the basketball player, and not necessarily because he changed styles, as someone else suggested. He did change to more of a half-court game, but he recruited too many athletes with raw skill levels whom he couldn't develop.
 
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TooLegit2Quit said:
Buzz Peterson > Bruce Pearl

As far as recruiting goes. Pretty glaring when you look back how poor a recruiter Bruce really was.
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We can agree to disagree about that. I think Buzz did a good job of recruiting though. Both Buzz and Pearl had "near miss" guys (Jamont Gordon, Tyler Smith and Elliot Williams, Chris Singleton, and JJ Hickson). But when you really look at some of the classes, it doesn't seem close when it comes to *'s. We all know that *'s aren't everything, but we had plenty people complain that Martin's first 2 recruiting classes didn't have enough of them. Lets look at some of the names that stick out in Buzz's 4-years and Bruce's 5-years.

The names that stick out from the Buzz Peterson era were CJ (4*), Asumnu (4*), Major (4*), Dane (3*), Lofton (3*) and Jajuan (2 or 3*, but a recruited walk-on). However, Bruce recruited Cam (4*), Ramar (4*), Duke (5*), Wayne (4*), Negedu (4*), Scotty (5*), Kenny (4*), Swiper (4*), Tobias (5*), Trae (4*), and Jordy (4*). Even guys like Marques Johnson was 4*'s too. One thing that sticks out is that star-gazers loved Bruce's classes because he had a lot of high ranked players. However, just having a lot of stars by the name doesn't mean guys will pan out which was very evident in Bruce's classes. A lot of Bruce's success too came from high profile transfers and snagging some JUCO guys as well.
 
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