2015 College World Series

[bowlinggreenvol]

UVA doing what they've done for the last 6 weeks

 

[BruinVol]

That's not what the article says though...

“If a student athlete receives need-based assistance, he/she normally will not also receive athletics assistance,” Vanderbilt spokeswoman Princine Lewis said in an emailed statement. “Student athletes must go through the same financial aid application process and review as any other student.”

Furthermore, NCAA bylaws specify the need to use “methodologies that conform to federal, state and written institutional guidelines” in giving out need-based aid.

Half players on the 11.7 baseball scholarships and the other half on the need based

Basically means the 11.7 is spent on 15-20 players while other programs use it on 28 players

So 30 players on 75% or above $

Crazy for baseball

 

[OldTimer]

That's not what the article says though...

“If a student athlete receives need-based assistance, he/she normally will not also receive athletics assistance,” Vanderbilt spokeswoman Princine Lewis said in an emailed statement. “Student athletes must go through the same financial aid application process and review as any other student.”

Furthermore, NCAA bylaws specify the need to use “methodologies that conform to federal, state and written institutional guidelines” in giving out need-based aid.

Vandy's endowment (Billions) would cover the entire student body for financial and merit based aid for many many years......... and what the hell does merit based mean as defined by VU?

What is Vandy's criteria for financial and merit based aid? That is where the mystery lies IMO........

NCAA Bylaws are being skirted around and there is the problem........

Aaron Fitt (now at D1 Baseball) quoted an SEC coach as saying that Vandy has the equivalent of 30 scholarships in an earlier article:

A certain amount of jealousy comes through when SEC rivals discuss Vanderbilt's ability to supplement their 11.7 scholarships with need-based and merit-based financial aid.

"They've got that incredible financial aid office—they're dealing with about 30 scholarships," says another SEC coach. "But how they beat the draft is they've got that incredible education. You have to really pay them to get them away from Vanderbilt. When you've got that kind of scholarship for that kind of education, it's hard to say no."

BaseballAmerica.com: College: Recruiting: Recruiting Notebook: East Carolina, Florida State Among Other Top Classes

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Half players on he 11.7 and the other half on the need based

Basically means the 11.7 is spent on 15-20 players while other programs use it on 28 players

A kids parent who makes "$300k" is not receiving need based money though.

Wiseman's HS costs $42k for tutition alone
Toffey's HS cost $49k for tuition alone
Fulmer's HS is in the $20k tuition range

These kids aren't coming from need based families. Therefore they wouldn't qualify.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Vandy's endowment (Billions) would cover the entire student body for financial and merit based aid for many many years......... and what the hell does merit based mean as defined by VU?

What is Vandy's criteria for financial and merit based aid? That is where the mystery lies IMO........

NCAA Bylaws are being skirted around and there is the problem........

Aaron Fitt (now at D1 Baseball) quoted an SEC coach as saying that Vandy has the equivalent of 30 scholarships in an earlier article:

A certain amount of jealousy comes through when SEC rivals discuss Vanderbilt's ability to supplement their 11.7 scholarships with need-based and merit-based financial aid.

"They've got that incredible financial aid office—they're dealing with about 30 scholarships," says another SEC coach. "But how they beat the draft is they've got that incredible education. You have to really pay them to get them away from Vanderbilt. When you've got that kind of scholarship for that kind of education, it's hard to say no."

BaseballAmerica.com: College: Recruiting: Recruiting Notebook: East Carolina, Florida State Among Other Top Classes

Says a coach who doesn't see their books anymore than any of us. Their merit based is governed by NCAA criteria as stated in the article. Whatever the NCAA's criteria is, the article implies all schools must abide by it.

 

[appyvol]

I know this is off topic, but the Hoos are up 3-0 on Vandy. T7 two on, two out for Vandy.

 

[OldTimer]

Says a coach who doesn't see their books anymore than any of us. Their merit based is governed by NCAA criteria as stated in the article. Whatever the NCAA's criteria is, the article implies all schools must abide by it.

Very true, no one knows what the hell they do however there is enough smoke around the issue that something is going to change at some point for a number of schools skirting the 11.7 scholarship rule.

I think it would benefit the conversation that people use merit based aid along with need based aid. Need based aid is common for most however this merit based stuff adds another layer of complexity to the problem.

As defined:
"Merit Aid" is the general term for grants, scholarships and discounts that a college awards to an admitted student without regard to financial need. Merit aid may be based on academic or athletic achievements, special talents such as music, where the student lives or other demographic characteristics. Merit aid, also known as non-need-based aid, is different from need-based aid which is awarded based on the student's economic situation.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Very true, no one knows what the hell they do however there is enough smoke around the issue that something is going to change at some point for a number of schools skirting the 11.7 scholarship rule.

I think it would benefit the conversation that people use merit based aid along with need based aid. Need based aid is common for most however this merit based stuff adds another layer of complexity to the problem.

As defined:
"Merit Aid" is the general term for grants, scholarships and discounts that a college awards to an admitted student without regard to financial need. Merit aid may be based on academic or athletic achievements, special talents such as music, where the student lives or other demographic characteristics. Merit aid, also known as non-need-based aid, is different from need-based aid which is awarded based on the student's economic situation.

This particular article quoted by Bruin mentions nothing of merit-based though. And UT's endowment is over $1B, not Vandy's $4B but nothing to look down on. What I don't understand is why public schools can't issue these merit-based awards as well? If that's in fact happening. This is still an NCAA issue at its crux and as long as Vanderbilt is a NCAA member institution they have to abide by the same guidelines as everyone else. Private or public doesn't or at least shouldn't dictate what's permissible by the governing body's standards.

 

[OldTimer]

I know this is off topic, but the Hoos are up 3-0 on Vandy. T7 two on, two out for Vandy.

and I'm pulling for Vandy........even though they flirt with the rules they are playing within the rules. Every successful business or individual does the same, including myself.......and the Patriots!

 

[Mike Rapp]

Half players on the 11.7 baseball scholarships and the other half on the need based

Basically means the 11.7 is spent on 15-20 players while other programs use it on 28 players

So 30 players on 75% or above $

Crazy for baseball

Correct me if I am wrong, but the NCAA now mandates that all baseball roster students must receive some baseball scholarship funds. This was done because many big state schools would use lottery money to pay for in state players, so the coaches could offer full rides to kids outside of the state.

 

[BruinVol]

A kids parent who makes "$300k" is not receiving need based money though.

Wiseman's HS costs $42k for tutition alone
Toffey's HS cost $49k for tuition alone
Fulmer's HS is in the $20k tuition range

These kids aren't coming from need based families. Therefore they wouldn't qualify.

Correct


The more effluent kids get the real scholarship $ and the middle/lower class get the need based aid

That's what the article is basically saying

 

[BruinVol]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the NCAA now mandates that all baseball roster students must receive some baseball scholarship funds. This was done because many big state schools would use lottery money to pay for in state players, so the coaches could offer full rides to kids outside of the state.

That isn't correct

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Correct


The more effluent kids get the real scholarship $ and the middle/lower class get the need based aid

That's what the article is basically saying

So they're eating up 3 full scholly's on Wiseman, Toffey and Fulmer? I can see those type kids paying their own way as much as possible. As Tulane's coach said in the article, he found kids who could pay. Someone who spends $40k per year on a HS education can pay. Swanson is using student loans in order to attend Vandy for goodness sakes. The money must not be very good.

Your theory amounts to Vandy recruits really good rich players and gives them athletic scholarships and then recruits really good poor players.

Vandy has a decent amount of TN talent that's likely benefitting from the lottery scholarship as well.


BTW it's affluent not effluent. You lose credibility if you can't even describe the kids with the correct spelling.

 

[BruinVol]

So they're eating up 3 full scholly's on Wiseman, Toffey and Fulmer? I can see those type kids paying their own way as much as possible. As Tulane's coach said in the article, he found kids who could pay. Someone who spends $40k per year on a HS education can pay. Swanson is using student loans in order to attend Vandy for goodness sakes. The money must not be very good.

Your theory amounts to Vandy recruits really good rich players and gives them athletic scholarships and then recruits really good poor players.

Vandy has a decent amount of TN talent that's likely benefitting from the lottery scholarship as well.


BTW it's affluent not effluent. You lose credibility if you can't even describe the kids with the correct spelling.

GTFO with that grammar/spell check bs


Never said full ride but yes they are spending their 11.7 on a certain few recruits. 75% or more $ is very very odd in recruiting baseball players. That's what all their players are getting IMO whether it be need based or part of their 11.7

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

GTFO with that grammar/spell check bs


Never said full ride. 75% or more $ is very very odd in recruiting baseball players. That's what all their players are getting IMO whether it be need based or part of their 11.7

So now it's IYO? You mouth like you have any insight into what goes on in their program yet, like everyone outside of their admissions/athletic office you have no idea. Everyone gives larger sums of money to OOS, big time recruits. We did it with the black guy from AL a few years ago (name escapes me) who was on a full ride. I knew ball players at WKU from TN who were able to attend WKU for less than UT because WKU offered them a larger sum of money. Our best players at the time just happened to come from Oxford, MS, Johnson City, TN and Franklin, TN. That's not ground breaking info.

 

[OldTimer]

One thing that may not be understood about "need based aid" at VU and similar schools, no public school can provide need based aid directly from the public university, only private schools can do this. The only need based aid available to public university students is through the federal government as in pell grants and/or student loans taken out by the perspective student.

 

[BruinVol]

One thing that may not be understood about "need based aid" at VU and similar schools, no public school can provide need based aid directly from the public university, only private schools can do this. The only need based aid available to public university students is through the federal government as in pell grants and/or student loans taken out by the perspective student.

Old timer

Before I read the article today I thought you were correct but Virginia amd UNC are the only 2 public schools that offer the same set up.

Certainly intersting the last 2 years finals were matched up with need based $ schools

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

One thing that may not be understood about "need based aid" at VU and similar schools, no public school can provide need based aid directly from the public university, only private schools can do this. The only need based aid available to public university students is through the federal government as in pell grants and/or student loans taken out by the perspective student.

Yet UVA and UNC are meeting the same tuition coverages on a need-based level as the private schools?

 

[BruinVol]

Boom !!!

1 more day of college baseball!'

 

[OldTimer]

Old timer

Before I read the article today I thought you were correct but Virginia amd UNC are the only 2 public schools that offer the same set up.

Certainly intersting the last 2 years finals were matched up with need based $ schools

you are correct, there are 2 public universities that offer similar setups as private schools.......and how they do it is above my pay grade.

 

[OldTimer]

Yet UVA and UNC are meeting the same tuition coverages on a need-based level as the private schools?

1,699 public universities in the US and yes there are 2 that offer need based aid.

Last I checked Virginia and North Carolina have predominately been pretty good at baseball in recent years.....coincidence?

 

[OldTimer]

Boom !!!

1 more day of college baseball!'

should be a good one tomorrow.......

 

[BruinVol]

should be a good one tomorrow.......

Zero reason Vandy shouldn't win but damn virginia feels like a team of destiny

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the NCAA now mandates that all baseball roster students must receive some baseball scholarship funds. This was done because many big state schools would use lottery money to pay for in state players, so the coaches could offer full rides to kids outside of the state.

Any kid on athletic scholarship is now to receive a 25% portion. So no more 10% fractions of that 11.7, is what it sounds like.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

1,699 public universities in the US and yes there are 2 that offer need based aid.

Last I checked Virginia and North Carolina have predominately been pretty good at baseball in recent years.....coincidence?

The point was its apparently not just a private school thing as you initially alluded to. But then you acknowledged that to Bruin.

Vandy hired a hell of a coach, he's poached and/or developed the best talent in the state and now he's kicking our ass. Players line up to play for winners, so the more they win the more that kids, especially in state, will line up to play for him. Some will even go out of their way to play for him, like Swanson.

We sound like sour grapes because we've been floating in the septic tank for damn near a decade. This wasn't a problem for us or an advantage for Vandy until they started winning. Did the rules change or were their previous regimes to incompetent to take advantage of it or is Corbin just a hell of a recruiter?