2015 College World Series

#176
#176
I'm a huge believer in college, hate the one-and-done in basketball, etc.--but any kid who turns down $750K or more to go to college is crazy. You give that money to a wise, reputable investment advisor and you will have a large nest egg for the rest of your life. You go to college and you could get hurt or lose your mojo and end up with nothing. If a coach can talk a kid out of taking $1 million, he's a VERY good salesman--but also working against the best interests of the kid. One can ALWAYS go to college: you seldom get offered a million bucks. Plus, even if you play well in college and get drafted in a high round again, you potentially have lost, potentially, a couple of years of extra earnings.

On another note, I have to hand it to the UVA coach. I know nothing about it--but, damn, he's created a powerhouse program out of NOTHING, except that UVA is an excellent school with an excellent reputation, so maybe that does help. But their baseball team was mediocre or worse for decades, I think, and now suddenly they are challenging for the national title regularly. Impressive.
 
#177
#177
Armchair,

Thoughts on this thinking.

Less than 5% of hs signees ever finish their college degree

HS degrees average salary is 30k

College graduate average salary is 60k(very conservative)

Over the course of a 30year working career that's the difference between 1.8mil and 900k

Anything less than the 900k difference isn't worth accepting as a signing bonus out of hs.
 
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#178
#178
After working the extra game, I don't think UVA has the pitching depth to hang with Vandy.

I think Florida was in a better position depth wise to hang with Vandy.

I hope I'm wrong.
 
#179
#179
armchair said:
I'm a huge believer in college, hate the one-and-done in basketball, etc.--but any kid who turns down $750K or more to go to college is crazy. You give that money to a wise, reputable investment advisor and you will have a large nest egg for the rest of your life. You go to college and you could get hurt or lose your mojo and end up with nothing. If a coach can talk a kid out of taking $1 million, he's a VERY good salesman--but also working against the best interests of the kid. One can ALWAYS go to college: you seldom get offered a million bucks. Plus, even if you play well in college and get drafted in a high round again, you potentially have lost, potentially, a couple of years of extra earnings.

On another note, I have to hand it to the UVA coach. I know nothing about it--but, damn, he's created a powerhouse program out of NOTHING, except that UVA is an excellent school with an excellent reputation, so maybe that does help. But their baseball team was mediocre or worse for decades, I think, and now suddenly they are challenging for the national title regularly. Impressive.
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I got to know Coach O'Connor a little when I was a student at UVA. I think his time spent as an assistant to Mainieri at Notre Dame was invaluable. He has a ton of contacts throughout the mid-atlantic and northeast. He has also done a great job of keeping in-state talent at home. Four CWS appearances in seven years speaks for itself.
 
#181
#181
How about those Vandy unis--first time I've seen the black w/stripes. Good grief, they are ugly.
 
#182
#182
BruinVol said:
Armchair,

Thoughts on this thinking.

Less than 5% of hs signees ever finish their college degree

HS degrees average salary is 30k

College graduate average salary is 60k(very conservative)

Over the course of a 30year working career that's the difference between 1.8mil and 900k

Anything less than the 900k difference isn't worth accepting as a signing bonus out of hs.
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I agree with armchair on this one. We are dealing purely in hypothetical here.

Those HS players that never go back to college. That's their choice.

If you give me $1 million dollars. And remember this is the signing bonus only. Government takes half. I put $400,000 in investments of some sort. I have $100,000 (and it doesn't take $100,000) to go to college when I want to if that's how I manage my money. At the age of 18, that's a lot of time to sit and watch it grow. By the time you are 55 based on past history and normal earnings, you'll be doing mighty fine.

I can live off of the actual salary. Depending on where I am drafted, I can put a lot of that in the bank too. And I won't be dealing with student loan debts or any of that nonsense same as if I accepted a full ride scholarship.

I don't think you turn down that kind of cash at any point in time.

Particularly, if you know what you are doing....which sadly, a whole lot of people don't
 
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#184
#184
99gator said:
I agree with armchair on this one. We are dealing purely in hypothetical here.

Those HS players that never go back to college. That's their choice.

If you give me $1 million dollars. And remember this is the signing bonus only. Government takes half. I put $400,000 in investments of some sort. I have $100,000 (and it doesn't take $100,000) to go to college when I want to if that's how I manage my money. At the age of 18, that's a lot of time to sit and watch it grow. By the time you are 55 based on past history and normal earnings, you'll be doing mighty fine.

I can live off of the actual salary. Depending on where I am drafted, I can put a lot of that in the bank too. And I won't be dealing with student loan debts or any of that nonsense same as if I accepted a full ride scholarship.

I don't think you turn down that kind of cash at any point in time.

Particularly, if you know what you are doing....which sadly, a whole lot of people don't
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For the record I agree with both of you but it's easy for me to see how Vandy pulls it off so often

Vandy simply uses a much higher figure than the 60k I used in the previous post

Vandy graduate makes on average 100k plus per year is worth 3mil or more for a lifetime vs the 900k of lifetime earnings for a HS graduate

It's a sell job that is clearly working
 
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#185
#185
BruinVol said:
For the record I agree with both of you but it's easy to see for me to see how Vandy pulls it off so often

Vandy simply uses a much higher figure than the 60k I used in the previous post

Vandy graduate makes on average 100k plus per year is worth 3mil or more for a lifetime vs the 900k of lifetime earnings for a HS graduate

It's a sell job that is clearly working
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The Vandy education is only more "beneficial" though if it's in an industry that pays or if going into a solid graduate program. Sociology, teaching, history etc are gonna pay crap for the most part no matter where the degree comes from.
 
#187
#187
bowlinggreenvol said:
The Vandy education is only more "beneficial" though if it's in an industry that pays or if going into a solid graduate program. Sociology, teaching, history etc are gonna pay crap for the most part no matter where the degree comes from.
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The college experience is about far more than money, especially for student athletes. A high schooler isn't going to be in the Majors for years, and during that time he is riding the bus with guys he barely knows and is almost certain to play under multiple coaches who care little about him personally.

Unless you are a position player who gets close to a million or more, it is far wiser in most circumstances to go to a Vandy type of program. You will get better coaching, grow as a person, and get an education to boot.

I rarely hear kids say they had a life changing experience in the minor leagues, but I hear the opposite over and over again from kids who went to college. I wouldn't trade my college experience for anything. You have your whole life to make money, but just one chance to have a college experience
 
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#188
#188
Mike Rapp said:
The college experience is about far more than money, especially for student athletes. A high schooler isn't going to be in the Majors for years, and during that time he is riding the bus with guys he barely knows and is almost certain to play under multiple coaches who care little about him personally.

Unless you are a position player who gets close to a million or more, it is far wiser in most circumstances to go to a Vandy type of program. You will get better coaching, grow as a person, and get an education to boot.

I rarely hear kids say they had a life changing experience in the minor leagues, but I hear the opposite over and over again from kids who went to college. I wouldn't trade my college experience for anything. You have your whole life to make money, but just one chance to have a college experience
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My point had nothing to do with minors vs college. I'm simply pointing out that a Vandy education doesn't ensure a higher post-college salary than anywhere else, just because it's Vandy. If your profession is teaching, then you're making $50k whether your degree says Vandy or Bama.

My comparison of the education was Vandy to any other university not to pro ball.
 
#189
#189
bowlinggreenvol said:
My point had nothing to do with minors vs college. I'm simply pointing out that a Vandy education doesn't ensure a higher post-college salary than anywhere else, just because it's Vandy. If your profession is teaching, then you're making $50k whether your degree says Vandy or Bama.

My comparison of the education was Vandy to any other university not to pro ball.
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Agreed but that's not what Vandy is selling to recruits
 
#191
#191
For the kids Vandy recruits, though, the issue is whether it is better to learn and develop at Vandy versus in a minor league system. At some point the money dictates the answer, but for kids who are likely to be a first to third round pick in three years, the money had to be massive.
 
#192
#192
@BaseballAmerica: Limited scholarships create a challenging landscape for college coaches, @ianmcfrazer writes. Stretching Scholarship Dollars Key To College Success - BaseballAmerica.com http://t.co/wR8tYI5dbS


Very intersting read.


Virginia and North Carolina are the only two public schools working under the same "need based" parameters as Vandy.

Way too much correlation between these schools and success for this practice to survive much longer



How about this response???

@TCUSchloss: Great article!! Huge, huge problem https://t.co/xuw7oYYH8Z
 
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#193
#193
armchair said:
How about those Vandy unis--first time I've seen the black w/stripes. Good grief, they are ugly.
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Just wait for the Orange uni's with white pin striping....

Rumor has it that these will be the new Sunday alternate uniform, in Tennessee orange of course.........

7-reading-phillies-crazy-hot-dog-vendor-jerseys-7.10.2011-crazy-minor-league-baseball-jerseys.jpg
 
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#196
#196
BruinVol said:
@BaseballAmerica: Limited scholarships create a challenging landscape for college coaches, @ianmcfrazer writes. Stretching Scholarship Dollars Key To College Success - BaseballAmerica.com http://t.co/wR8tYI5dbS


Very intersting read.


Virginia and North Carolina are the only two public schools working under the same "need based" parameters as Vandy.

Way too much correlation between these schools and success for this practice to survive much longer



How about this response???

@TCUSchloss: Great article!! Huge, huge problem https://t.co/xuw7oYYH8Z
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Maybe I'm dense, but I'm failing to see how this is the predominant key to success for Vandy? The awarded money is still financial need based and must conform with all other criteria for awarding need based monies (to non athletes). A lot of these NE kids at Vandy are coming from very high dollar prep schools that make Ensworth look like a community college. I just don't see all of them having a need and qualifying for said need.

We're one of those states with the lottery scholarship opportunities unlike the MS and AL schools yet we're fairly consistently behind those schools in league play.
 
#197
#197
bowlinggreenvol said:
Maybe I'm dense, but I'm failing to see how this is the predominant key to success for Vandy? The awarded money is still financial need based and must conform with all other criteria for awarding need based monies (to non athletes). A lot of these NE kids at Vandy are coming from very high dollar prep schools that make Ensworth look like a community college. I just don't see all of them having a need and qualifying for said need.

We're one of those states with the lottery scholarship opportunities unlike the MS and AL schools yet we're fairly consistently behind those schools in league play.
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Vandy is a private institution so their formula for "need based" is not like a public university. VU is like a privately run company, they do not have to publicize any information on how they run things except to the IRS or some other government agency.......
 
#199
#199
OldTimer said:
Vandy is a private institution so their formula for "need based" is not like a public university. VU is like a privately run company, they do not have to publicize any information on how they run things except to the IRS or some other government agency.......
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That's not what the article says though...

“If a student athlete receives need-based assistance, he/she normally will not also receive athletics assistance,” Vanderbilt spokeswoman Princine Lewis said in an emailed statement. “Student athletes must go through the same financial aid application process and review as any other student.”

Furthermore, NCAA bylaws specify the need to use “methodologies that conform to federal, state and written institutional guidelines” in giving out need-based aid.

No one has provided proof of this practice yet. It's just Vandy is private, they have more money and they have their own rules etc etc. I despise Vandy, but they're not beating the nation simply because because of "more scholarships". Corbin's first 5 or so years were mediocre at best as he built this crappy program up. Can't it took 10 years for this loophole to payoff for him. He's beating people because he's unfortunately a hell of a coach and developer of talent. Swanson's dad is on record of saying that Vandy was a worse deal financially for them than other options and required student loans but it's the option he wanted to pursue. Surely the #1 pick, from out of state could have received a handout right?
 
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