2019 Target List

#401
#401
cncchris33 said:
Maybe just the emotional beatdown Tennessee sports has put on me over the past 10 years, but I'm going to have a hard time swallowing a class of Pember, Jitoboh, Gaines, and Jones.
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I would too, especially with the season they had last year and the projection for this year. We aren’t the ugly duckling anymore and still can’t land a guaranteed instant impact guy.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not gonna come here and beat a dead horse over and over or stop going to games. But I will be a little ticked and disappointed.
 
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#402
#402
cncchris33 said:
Maybe just the emotional beatdown Tennessee sports has put on me over the past 10 years, but I'm going to have a hard time swallowing a class of Pember, Jitoboh, Gaines, and Jones. And right now, that seems entirely possible.
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Couple of things...

On the surface I agree, it would be disappointing in the sense that we seemingly were involved with much higher regarded prospects, missing on all of them would be disappointing. However when you look at that class individually: Pember is a guy that those who have watched him multiple times say is criminally underrated, RL said after watching he’s a definite Top 150 guy in his mind. Jitoboh is a guy with several nice offers, appeared headed for a solid ranking prior to an ankle injury forcing him to miss pretty much the entire AAU season, so his ranking likely won’t move. Tyrell Jones is a guy who has received nearly 20 high major offers in the last 2 weeks, 247 & Rivals both did articles recently stating they dropped the ball on him and he will be ranked by both in the next update.

If that scenario was to happen it would be hard to rush to judgment on what it even means, Pember is a guy ranked like Williams and who people who know him say is underranked similarly to Williams, we saw how that turned out. Jitoboh is a guy ranked much higher than Alexander and better offers, again we see the player he has become. And Tyrell Jones as I stated is a guy likely headed for the Top 100-150 if not even higher, so that would hardly be a stretch. Barnes has already proven an ability to identify talent and develop it at an extremely high level so I wouldn’t take that class to automatically mean we are gonna be a .500 program, but yes on the surface it would be disappointing considering the other targets we had.

With all that said, I don’t think that is going to happen, I still feel very good about our chances of landing Tre Mann. After that I’m not sure, I like Pember and it looks like we are keeping Gaines, so room for maybe 1. CJ Walker’s recruitment looks like it may get bigger than expected but Tennessee will continue to try and same for Josiah James who VQ says Tennessee thinks they’ll at least get an OV from.
 
#403
#403
bleedingTNorange said:
Couple of things...

On the surface I agree, it would be disappointing in the sense that we seemingly were involved with much higher regarded prospects, missing on all of them would be disappointing. However when you look at that class individually: Pember is a guy that those who have watched him multiple times say is criminally underrated, RL said after watching he’s a definite Top 150 guy in his mind. Jitoboh is a guy with several nice offers, appeared headed for a solid ranking prior to an ankle injury forcing him to miss pretty much the entire AAU season, so his ranking likely won’t move. Tyrell Jones is a guy who has received nearly 20 high major offers in the last 2 weeks, 247 & Rivals both did articles recently stating they dropped the ball on him and he will be ranked by both in the next update.

If that scenario was to happen it would be hard to rush to judgment on what it even means, Pember is a guy ranked like Williams and who people who know him say is underranked similarly to Williams, we saw how that turned out. Jitoboh is a guy ranked much higher than Alexander and better offers, again we see the player he has become. And Tyrell Jones as I stated is a guy likely headed for the Top 100-150 if not even higher, so that would hardly be a stretch. Barnes has already proven an ability to identify talent and develop it at an extremely high level so I wouldn’t take that class to automatically mean we are gonna be a .500 program, but yes on the surface it would be disappointing considering the other targets we had.

With all that said, I don’t think that is going to happen, I still feel very good about our chances of landing Tre Mann. After that I’m not sure, I like Pember and it looks like we are keeping Gaines, so room for maybe 1. CJ Walker’s recruitment looks like it may get bigger than expected but Tennessee will continue to try and same for Josiah James who VQ says Tennessee thinks they’ll at least get an OV from.
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Yeah, we can excuse it away all day and hope and believe that Barnes will make chicken salad out of chicken #$%& once again, but the bottom line is that we are not landing our top prospects in a class sandwiched between a top-15 finish and a top-10 preseason. That is concerning to me.

Not looking to go full Ziti here. Just pointing out that if we can't land our top targets now, I'm not sure we ever will. We should be an easy sell and an attractive option right now. It is just extremely puzzling how a staff that landed so many elite recruits at Texas can't seem to land hardly anyone even in the top-100 now with so much to sell and offer.

It just doesn't add up. Think of it like this; if Phillip Fulmer had immediately gone to UNC (just as an example) after being fired in 09, improved the team a couple of years and then won a share of the ACC title, yet couldn't land a single guy in the Rivals 250 with a team projected to be a top-10 team the next year. A guy who landed player after player at Tennessee struggling to land a single immediate contributor. Not a direct apples to apples comparison, but I think we'd all be floored if recruiting stud players suddenly became his achilles heel as a coach.
 
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#404
#404
cncchris33 said:
Yeah, we can excuse it away all day and hope and believe that Barnes will make chicken salad out of chicken #$%& once again, but the bottom line is that we are not landing our top prospects in a class sandwiched between a top-15 finish and a top-10 preseason. That is concerning to me.

Not looking to go full Ziti here. Just pointing out that if we can't land our top targets now, I'm not sure we ever will. We should be an easy sell and an attractive option right now. It is just extremely puzzling how a staff that landed so many elite recruits at Texas can't seem to land hardly anyone even in the top-100 now with so much to sell and offer.

It just doesn't add up. Think of it like this; if Phillip Fulmer had immediately gone to UNC (just as an example) after being fired in 09, improved the team a couple of years and then won a share of the ACC title, yet couldn't land a single guy in the Rivals 250 with a team projected to be a top-10 team the next year. A guy who landed player after player at Tennessee struggling to land a single immediate contributor. Not a direct apples to apples comparison, but I think we'd all be floored if recruiting stud players suddenly became his achilles heel as a coach.
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This is a truth that hurts a little. If we miss on Mann and Walker, it is tough to put a positive spin on the 19 class. I am also not a Ziti, but I had really hoped to do better.
 
#405
#405
cncchris33 said:
Yeah, we can excuse it away all day and hope and believe that Barnes will make chicken salad out of chicken #$%& once again, but the bottom line is that we are not landing our top prospects in a class sandwiched between a top-15 finish and a top-10 preseason. That is concerning to me.

Not looking to go full Ziti here. Just pointing out that if we can't land our top targets now, I'm not sure we ever will. We should be an easy sell and an attractive option right now. It is just extremely puzzling how a staff that landed so many elite recruits at Texas can't seem to land hardly anyone even in the top-100 now with so much to sell and offer.

It just doesn't add up. Think of it like this; if Phillip Fulmer had immediately gone to UNC (just as an example) after being fired in 09, improved the team a couple of years and then won a share of the ACC title, yet couldn't land a single guy in the Rivals 250 with a team projected to be a top-10 team the next year. A guy who landed player after player at Tennessee struggling to land a single immediate contributor. Not a direct apples to apples comparison, but I think we'd all be floored if recruiting stud players suddenly became his achilles heel as a coach.
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Oh I get what you’re saying, just don’t necessarily agree that Jones/Pember are chicken $h!t...like I said some opinions I value say Pember is Top 100-150 and many National guys now saying Jones is Top 100, so that has to be considered.

I do agree that if we can’t land our top guys this year/next year I’m not sure we ever will...does that mean we will be .500 or will we continue to win regardless? That’s obviously the more important question? If they continue to win with whoever they bring in then I guess it is what it is and it will get to a point it’s not even worth discussing recruiting at all. Like I’ve said I don’t think they’re gonna end up with the class you listed, but if they were I would obviously question if they made the right move continuing to pursue James/Mann/Walker? I believe Tandy would be a Vol if he’d have been prioritized, should they have done that and passed on Mann? I think a guy like Patrick Williams is someone Vols would’ve had a good chance with had they pushed for him instead of priroitizing Walker, will be interesting to look back on when it’s all done with.

Barnes is casting a much smaller net now than he did at Texas, he also doesn’t have Tennessee kids begging to play for him like he did at Texas, so that is a factor. If he continues to win and make tournaments then I’m not sure what it really matters if they aren’t landing Top 100 kids...fwiw they targeted and offered Gaines and Pember very early in the process, and landed both, so in 2019 they’ve landed 2 of their “top” guys if you define it by when they were offered.
 
#411
#411
cncchris33 said:
Yeah, we can excuse it away all day and hope and believe that Barnes will make chicken salad out of chicken #$%& once again, but the bottom line is that we are not landing our top prospects in a class sandwiched between a top-15 finish and a top-10 preseason. That is concerning to me.

Not looking to go full Ziti here. Just pointing out that if we can't land our top targets now, I'm not sure we ever will. We should be an easy sell and an attractive option right now. It is just extremely puzzling how a staff that landed so many elite recruits at Texas can't seem to land hardly anyone even in the top-100 now with so much to sell and offer.

It just doesn't add up. Think of it like this; if Phillip Fulmer had immediately gone to UNC (just as an example) after being fired in 09, improved the team a couple of years and then won a share of the ACC title, yet couldn't land a single guy in the Rivals 250 with a team projected to be a top-10 team the next year. A guy who landed player after player at Tennessee struggling to land a single immediate contributor. Not a direct apples to apples comparison, but I think we'd all be floored if recruiting stud players suddenly became his achilles heel as a coach.
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Playing the devil's advocate here as it would be very frustrating to see all these highly-rated players slip away, but you must also consider the state of the Tennessee roster.

As a highly ranked recruit, I would want playing time, and I would want a decent chunk of it even in my first year. Our roster is pretty concrete at every position. In 2019-2020, SF and C are your positions that aren't 100% locked down, but your competition has already spent 2-3 years being developed in the system. For example, as a SF, you'd be competing with Yves Pons (2yrs), Jalen Johnson (3yrs), and presumably Devonte Gaines (0yrs).

You might want to go to a school that has a higher player turnover (transfers, 1-and-dones, etc) or less experienced competition, so you have a chance of getting starting minutes easier. It is also possible other schools are throwing around promises for minutes, and I highly doubt Barnes does this.

Just a theory I've had about some of these higher ranked players.
 
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#412
#412
VEKZY said:
Playing the devil's advocate here as it would be very frustrating to see all these highly-rated players slip away, but you must also consider the state of the Tennessee roster.

As a highly ranked recruit, I would want playing time, and I would want a decent chunk of it even in my first year. Our roster is pretty concrete at every position. In 2019-2020, SF and C are your positions that aren't 100% locked down, but your competition has already spent 2-3 years being developed in the system. For example, as a SF, you'd be competing with Yves Pons (2yrs), Jalen Johnson (3yrs), and presumably Devonte Gaines (0yrs).

You might want to go to a school that has a higher player turnover (transfers, 1-and-dones, etc) or less experienced competition, so you have a chance of getting starting minutes easier. It is also possible other schools are throwing around promises for minutes, and I highly doubt Barnes does this.

Just a theory I've had about some of these higher ranked players.
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I hope this doesn’t come across as a dik response, but any higher ranked guys lost because of our “locked roster” isn’t worth discussing. Imo That is not the issue. If they lose on Mann and Walker it’s because Barnes isn’t kissing a$$ at the normal speed. He is showing a ton of consistent interest, laying out the opportunity and keeping it 100% with them. And he’s done that since he’s got here, so no reason to think that’s gonna change.

The longer Mann holds out the more I think Walker is pulling the strings and don’t see himself at UT. Jmo
 
#413
#413
bleedingTNorange said:
Oh I get what you’re saying, just don’t necessarily agree that Jones/Pember are chicken $h!t...like I said some opinions I value say Pember is Top 100-150 and many National guys now saying Jones is Top 100, so that has to be considered.

I do agree that if we can’t land our top guys this year/next year I’m not sure we ever will...does that mean we will be .500 or will we continue to win regardless? That’s obviously the more important question? If they continue to win with whoever they bring in then I guess it is what it is and it will get to a point it’s not even worth discussing recruiting at all. Like I’ve said I don’t think they’re gonna end up with the class you listed, but if they were I would obviously question if they made the right move continuing to pursue James/Mann/Walker? I believe Tandy would be a Vol if he’d have been prioritized, should they have done that and passed on Mann? I think a guy like Patrick Williams is someone Vols would’ve had a good chance with had they pushed for him instead of priroitizing Walker, will be interesting to look back on when it’s all done with.

Barnes is casting a much smaller net now than he did at Texas, he also doesn’t have Tennessee kids begging to play for him like he did at Texas, so that is a factor. If he continues to win and make tournaments then I’m not sure what it really matters if they aren’t landing Top 100 kids...fwiw they targeted and offered Gaines and Pember very early in the process, and landed both, so in 2019 they’ve landed 2 of their “top” guys if you define it by when they were offered.
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You make several good points and please don’t take my chicken salad comment out of context. I was merely using it as an expression.

I do have an issue crediting Barnes and Co. with landing Pember and Gaines and calling it landing their top guys, though. Seems like low-hanging fruit. You and I would crawl to Thompson-Boling to play there, but if Barnes offered us early on, and Tennessee clearly was our best offer, no one is calling that a major recruiting win. But I get what you are saying. I just don’t see us landing those two as examples of landing our top targets that were top targets of other similar teams to Tennessee.

The whole dynamic is just odd. It doesn’t mean it won’t translate to wins, like you said.
 
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#414
#414
Lefteye said:
I hope this doesn’t come across as a dik response, but any higher ranked guys lost because of our “locked roster” isn’t worth discussing. Imo That is not the issue. If they lose on Mann and Walker it’s because Barnes isn’t kissing a$$ at the normal speed. He is showing a ton of consistent interest, laying out the opportunity and keeping it 100% with them. And he’s done that since he’s got here, so no reason to think that’s gonna change.

The longer Mann holds out the more I think Walker is pulling the strings and don’t see himself at UT. Jmo
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A lot of truth to this and meant to post this in my response to Chris as well, but sales pitch is gonna continue to be the same and that’s not a pitch that’s going to sit well with every recruit. It worked for DJ Burns, it worked for Yves Pons, it won’t work for everyone. More and more kids wanna be BS’d and lied too, Barnes isn’t going to do that, it’s why you see a near 50% turnover rate among Bama, Auburn, Mississippi State with their Top 150 guys.
 
#415
#415
cncchris33 said:
You make several good points and please don’t take my chicken salad comment out of context. I was merely using it as an expression.

I do have an issue crediting Barnes and Co. with landing Pember and Gaines and calling it landing their top guys, though. Seems like low-hanging fruit. You and I would crawl to Thompson-Boling to play there, but if Barnes offered us early on, and Tennessee clearly was our best offer, no one is calling that a major recruiting win. But I get what you are saying. I just don’t see us landing those two as examples of landing our top targets that were top targets of other similar teams to Tennessee.

The whole dynamic is just odd. It doesn’t mean it won’t translate to wins, like you said.
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The dynamic is very odd, even puzzling...you’ve got a P5 school with above average facilities, a great fan base comparatively speaking, and is now showing that they are a winning program or at least appear to be. Now like I said maybe they should’ve pushed for Tandy instead of Mann, and a guy like Patrick Williams instead of Walker, they probably would’ve been easier to get and they had rankings beside their names too...maybe the staff aimed too high too soon?

I’m not gonna make any definitive claims in regards to 2019 class at this stage, as I’ve said I still feel for various reason that Mann is most likely to end up at Tennessee. If that does indeed happen then Tennessee has a fighting chance for Walker, they’re at least in the conversation for Josiah James and they appear to be the preference for Jitoboh and Thorpe if either of those guys is willing to wait until spring.

This conversation started because of the removal of Gantt and Lecque, 2 guys that by all accounts Tennessee pretty much passed on...as I posted earlier in another thread this staff has locked in on Mann/James/Walker/Johnson/Springer for 2019/2020, whether or not that was the right move likely won’t be known for awhile, but they targeted those guys very early and set their sights on them while passing on other gettable targets.

If the 2019 class is 3 unranked 3 stars and the 2020 class is the same we better hope that Barnes ability to evaluate and develop talent was no fluke and that wins are going to come regardless.
 
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#416
#416
bleedingTNorange said:
A lot of truth to this and meant to post this in my response to Chris as well, but sales pitch is gonna continue to be the same and that’s not a pitch that’s going to sit well with every recruit. It worked for DJ Burns, it worked for Yves Pons, it won’t work for everyone. More and more kids wanna be BS’d and lied too, Barnes isn’t going to do that, it’s why you see a near 50% turnover rate among Bama, Auburn, Mississippi State with their Top 150 guys.
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Coaches have been lying for ages. Kids adjusting to what they thought they were getting into and not hanging around if they didn’t live up to hopes... that’s what’s new.
 
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#417
#417
Lefteye said:
Coaches have been lying for ages. Kids adjusting to what they thought they were getting into and hanging around if they didn’t live up to hopes... that’s what’s new.
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Not sure if it’s that or if it’s just the attitudes of kids changing...less and less wanna put in the work and are willing to fight for something, they want it handed to them.
 
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#419
#419
I think I’ll trust Barnes and his judgment on recruiting until he proves me otherwise. I’ll be really disappointed if we miss on Mann though. He’s probably a top 10 scorer in the 2019 class. We could really use him to replace some of AS’ ppg.
 
#420
#420
#11 Josiah James
#29 Tre Mann
#43 CJ Walker
#61 Patrick Williams
#87 Dekeyvan Tandy

#178* Drew Pember-UT COMMIT
#188* Jason Jitoboh
#204* Davonte Gaines-UT COMMIT

#117* Tyrell Jones
NR Caleb Mills

* no ranking by Rivals available, listed ranking is 247
 
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#421
#421
Thanks bTo. Can anybody give a link to a highlight video of Tyrell Jones and Caleb Mills ? I would really appreciate it
 
#425
#425
Jones and Mills were both very impressive in the videos. Of course, that's why they are called highlights. Mills seems like a pure scorer, to me. Jones, more of a true PG that can score some, too. Jones body looks more SEC ready than Mills. But, from what I've seen, so far, I prefer Mills. Mills may not be the true PG, I think UT needs in a couple years, tho. Thanks again, Lefteye
 
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