2024 Official Seed List Watch Party Thread

Seems like based on current seeding at least making SEC finals probably gets vols 1 seed. Lose Friday probably 2 seed. Going 1-1 over the weekend then will depend what happens with Arizona and UNC. The committee probably puts regular season and tourney champ Arizona/UNC above vols if vols can only go 1-1 this weekend.
 
UNC beat us head to head, sure.

However, they have more bad losses and play in a much weaker conference.

I don’t see the reasoning on why they would move them ahead of us.

And if they do, then the whole strength of schedule is pointless.
 
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I guess I just don’t have trust in the Committee to look that deep. Particularly after how they treated our seed in 2022. I’m not saying I disagree with you, I agree. But I think there are enough surface level metrics to say it’s close enough that they can give the blue blood a 1 seed who has one less loss and the head to head win. Just how I think the committee will do it. I’m not even sure if we won the SEC tournament it would make a difference if UNC made it to their title game and lost, because I would guess that the bracket is mostly in place Saturday afternoon and the only changes they will make are for bubble teams. That’s how they’ve treated it lately, but who knows. There is still some hope.
Why is it that when Lunardi talks and says something we don’t like we say he’s a mouth piece for the committee and gets info from them, but when he says something positive about Tennessee (they’re still a 1) then we stop thinking he has info? Just a case of BVS?
 
Why is it that when Lunardi talks and says something we don’t like we say he’s a mouth piece for the committee and gets info from them, but when he says something positive about Tennessee (they’re still a 1) then we stop thinking he has info? Just a case of BVS?

Maybe it’s BVS. I don’t know. I’m just not certain the gap is as clear as it needs to be for us to get the 1. Fair or not, as SF has said in some of his posts, this is still a made for TV product and there is some inherent bias baked in for the blue bloods.

My personal opinion is basically that if there are enough justifiable talking points for the Committee, they will always choose the favored child the better seeding. You have to force their hand.

I’m sure you’ll point out that this is illogical, but the way I personally see it is I don’t think Lunardi is getting tipped off all year by the Committee about the way things are leaning until the weekend of Selection Sunday. If he was getting tipped off all year, his bracket projections would be far better and he wouldn’t be ranked so low. That being said, my ears will certainly start to perk up if he is still saying we are a 1-seed next Saturday because I do think that once the Committee has actually made their decisions, they need people out their trying to justify why choices were made, so I would be more apt to believe what he says next weekend compared to this weekend, as crazy as that sounds, I know.
 
Tennessee 5 best wins:
6- Auburn
8- Alabama
8- Alabama
15- Illinois
19- Kentucky
Average: 11.2

North Carolina 5 best wins:
5- Tennessee
10- Duke
10- Duke
27- Clemson
37- Wake Forest
Average: 17.8

Tennessee Top 50 wins:
6- Auburn
8- Alabama
8- Alabama
15- Illinois
19- Kentucky
22- Wisconsin
35- Florida
46- Texas A&M
49- South Carolina
Total: 9
Average: 23.1

North Carolina Top 50 wins:
5- Tennessee
10- Duke
10- Duke
27- Clemson
37- Wake Forest
43- Oklahoma
44- Pittsburgh
Total: 7
Average: 25.1

Tennessee losses:
2- Purdue
7- North Carolina
18- Kansas
19- Kentucky
42- Mississippi State
46- Texas A&M
49- South Carolina
Total: 7
Average: 26.1

North Carolina losses:
3- Connecticut
19- Kentucky
27- Clemson
32- Villanova
79- Syracuse
124- Georgia Tech
Total: 6
Average: 47.3
 
Maybe it’s BVS. I don’t know. I’m just not certain the gap is as clear as it needs to be for us to get the 1. Fair or not, as SF has said in some of his posts, this is still a made for TV product and there is some inherent bias baked in for the blue bloods.

My personal opinion is basically that if there are enough justifiable talking points for the Committee, they will always choose the favored child the better seeding. You have to force their hand.

I’m sure you’ll point out that this is illogical, but the way I personally see it is I don’t think Lunardi is getting tipped off all year by the Committee about the way things are leaning until the weekend of Selection Sunday. If he was getting tipped off all year, his bracket projections would be far better and he wouldn’t be ranked so low. That being said, my ears will certainly start to perk up if he is still saying we are a 1-seed next Saturday because I do think that once the Committee has actually made their decisions, they need people out their trying to justify why choices were made, so I would be more apt to believe what he says next weekend compared to this weekend, as crazy as that sounds, I know.
Do you think TV ratings will be effected by UNC being a 1 in the West vs. a 2 in the East? I don’t, and if anything I would actually argue TV would be higher with UNC in the East against UCONN.
 
39 brackets updated today so far on the matrix. UNC is a #1 on 16 and Tennessee on 23. The updated ones from 3/9 all have us as a #1 except for a couple that had Arizona as a #1. Not sure if any of the 3/9 updates were after we played or not.
 
Do you think TV ratings will be effected by UNC being a 1 in the West vs. a 2 in the East? I don’t, and if anything I would actually argue TV would be higher with UNC in the East against UCONN.

I think the potential for a Caleb Love and UNC matchup is going to be very appealing.
 
I think the potential for a Caleb Love and UNC matchup is going to be very appealing.
Interesting how the take was making Tennessee go west would be illogical and hurt ratings and now sending a team even further than that when they can stay on the east coast where their fan base clearly resides and not a 4hr time change isn’t the bigger appeal. Interesting. Or just BVS.
 
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Maybe it’s BVS. I don’t know. I’m just not certain the gap is as clear as it needs to be for us to get the 1. Fair or not, as SF has said in some of his posts, this is still a made for TV product and there is some inherent bias baked in for the blue bloods.

My personal opinion is basically that if there are enough justifiable talking points for the Committee, they will always choose the favored child the better seeding. You have to force their hand.

I’m sure you’ll point out that this is illogical, but the way I personally see it is I don’t think Lunardi is getting tipped off all year by the Committee about the way things are leaning until the weekend of Selection Sunday. If he was getting tipped off all year, his bracket projections would be far better and he wouldn’t be ranked so low. That being said, my ears will certainly start to perk up if he is still saying we are a 1-seed next Saturday because I do think that once the Committee has actually made their decisions, they need people out their trying to justify why choices were made, so I would be more apt to believe what he says next weekend compared to this weekend, as crazy as that sounds, I know.
This is a really nuanced territory, but I don’t want to contribute to the ambiguity. If I were forced to make a call right now, I think we’re a one again after the Arizona loss. I think our win list and lack of bad losses puts us out ahead of UNC. I think Arizona really hurt themselves last night. That said, this is a fragile one seed, if we have it. Head to head is a real thing and a real topic, regardless of the other more important metrics. Storylines, blue blood programs and the desire to keep the big conferences happy are all real inputs. I guarantee you from first person accounts that the Darwinism of selecting teams on narratives and biases happens. Calling that a “conspiracy” is lazy, reductive and ignorant of the real world. When GM/Pontiac was the official sponsor in the early 2000’s they were “talked through” the bracket prior to its release every year. Why? Because they made a 50 million dollar media buy. That’s why. That’s not a “conspiracy”. That’s a fact. Lunardi is almost exactly the creature you describe. He is a hack and not very good at his job. He makes brackets that have direct rule conflicts with pairings that will never happen. He is also an ABC/ESPN/Disney employee. He gets an early look via conversations with the major networks. His brackets are suddenly very good in the last weekend. I’ll also note that he recently echoed my observation that the committee’s desire to have a one from the West in the Western region would bias them to give it to Arizona if they could justify it. Again that is a fact. At this point, they absolutely cannot justify putting Arizona on that line. If they can, they will. The media market, time zones and regional biases are real. In addition to the national advertisers, there are also regional and local advertisers. They want a team from their area. That’s a fact. They don’t need to lobby anyone. The networks’ business model is pretty simple. Advertisers pay the bills. They love blue blood stories. They hate when big programs with big fanbases lose. Right now, this minute, I think that’s our one. It’s a fragile one. That isn’t a conspiracy. It isn’t BVS. It’s economic Darwinism. We need to win a game and maybe two this week. It’d be great if we won all of them. We do not need to exit early (and) have UNC pick up more Q1 wins or have Arizona win their tournament in the face of us losing early. I’m not going to step in and have this conversation ten more times. I can tell you unequivocally that they sit with their rules and metrics every year and generally follow them, but there is pressure and an understanding of who they serve. They step outside those guidelines when it is gray. It has quite literally happened to us before. I think we’re a one today. I think it’s fragile.
 
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Interesting how the take was making Tennessee go west would be illogical and hurt ratings and now sending a team even further than that when they can stay on the east coast where their fan base clearly resides and not a 4hr time change isn’t the bigger appeal. Interesting. Or just BVS.

I don’t believe I ever said anything about the distance factor affecting ratings. So, I’m not sure why you are putting those words in my mouth. Distance has nothing to do with this. My point simply boiled down to the fact that, region be damned, I think the Committee will try to give the most favorable seeding to blue blood programs if they can. Obviously, the resumes have to be close enough to justify it, but yes having a program like North Carolina on the 1 line is good for TV regardless if they are playing in LA, Dallas, or Boston.
 
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This is a really nuanced territory, but I don’t want to contribute to the ambiguity. If I were forced to make a call right now, I think we’re a one again after the Arizona loss. I think our win list and lack of bad losses puts us out ahead of UNC. I think Arizona really hurt themselves last night. That said, this is a fragile one seed, if we have it. Head to head is a real thing and a real topic, regardless of the other more important metrics. Storylines, blue blood programs and the desire to keep the big conferences happy are all real inputs. I guarantee you from first person accounts that the Darwinism of selecting teams on narratives and biases happens. Calling that a “conspiracy” is lazy, reductive and ignorant of the real world. When GM/Pontiac was the official sponsor in the early 2000’s they were “talked through” the bracket prior to its release every year. Why? Because they made a 50 million dollar media buy. That’s why. That’s not a “conspiracy”. That’s a fact. Lunardi is almost exactly the creature you describe. He is a hack and not very good at his job. He makes brackets that have direct rule conflicts with pairings that will never happen. He is also an ABC/ESPN/Disney employee. He gets an early look via conversations with the major networks. His brackets are suddenly very good in the last weekend. I’ll also note that he recently echoed my observation that the committee’s desire to have a one from the West in the Western region would bias them to give it to Arizona if they could justify it. Again that is a fact. At this point, they absolutely cannot justify putting Arizona on that line. If they can, they will. The media market, time zones and regional biases are real. In addition to the national advertisers, there are also regional and local advertisers. They want a team from there area. That’s a fact. They don’t need to lobby anyone. The networks’ business model is pretty simple. Advertisers pay the bills. They love blue blood stories. They hate when big programs with big fanbases lose. Right now, this minute, I think that’s our one. It’s a fragile one. That isn’t a conspiracy. It isn’t BVS. It’s economic Darwinism. We need to win a game and maybe two this week. It’d be great if we won all of them. We do not need to exit early (and) have UNC pick up more Q1 wins or have Arizona win their tournament in the face of us losing early. I’m not going to step in and have this conversation ten more times. I can tell you unequivocally that they sit with their rules and metrics every year and generally follow them, but there is pressure and an understanding of who they serve. They step outside those guidelines when it is gray. It has quite literally happened to us before. I think we’re a one today. I think it’s fragile.

Very well put. You articulated my exact position better than I could. I guess it’s easy to call my opinion “BVS” but I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s that. It’s way more complicated.
 
This is a really nuanced territory, but I don’t want to contribute to the ambiguity. If I were forced to make a call right now, I think we’re a one again after the Arizona loss. I think our win list and lack of bad losses puts us out ahead of UNC. I think Arizona really hurt themselves last night. That said, this is a fragile one seed, if we have it. Head to head is a real thing and a real topic, regardless of the other more important metrics. Storylines, blue blood programs and the desire to keep the big conferences happy are all real inputs. I guarantee you from first person accounts that the Darwinism of selecting teams on narratives and biases happens. Calling that a “conspiracy” is lazy, reductive and ignorant of the real world. When GM/Pontiac was the official sponsor in the early 2000’s they were “talked through” the bracket prior to its release every year. Why? Because they made a 50 million dollar media buy. That’s why. That’s not a “conspiracy”. That’s a fact. Lunardi is almost exactly the creature you describe. He is a hack and not very good at his job. He makes brackets that have direct rule conflicts with pairings that will never happen. He is also an ABC/ESPN/Disney employee. He gets an early look via conversations with the major networks. His brackets are suddenly very good in the last weekend. I’ll also note that he recently echoed my observation that the committee’s desire to have a one from the West in the Western region would bias them to give it to Arizona if they could justify it. Again that is a fact. At this point, they absolutely cannot justify putting Arizona on that line. If they can, they will. The media market, time zones and regional biases are real. In addition to the national advertisers, there are also regional and local advertisers. They want a team from there area. That’s a fact. They don’t need to lobby anyone. The networks’ business model is pretty simple. Advertisers pay the bills. They love blue blood stories. They hate when big programs with big fanbases lose. Right now, this minute, I think that’s our one. It’s a fragile one. That isn’t a conspiracy. It isn’t BVS. It’s economic Darwinism. We need to win a game and maybe two this week. It’d be great if we won all of them. We do not need to exit early (and) have UNC pick up more Q1 wins or have Arizona win their tournament in the face of us losing early. I’m not going to step in and have this conversation ten more times. I can tell you unequivocally that they sit with their rules and metrics every year and generally follow them, but there is pressure and an understanding of who they serve. They step outside those guidelines when it is gray. It has quite literally happened to us before. I think we’re a one today. I think it’s fragile.
You said this in a much more detailed way than I was going to be able to. But I heard many years ago, it's not just the committee in the room. It's t.v. and advertisers.

They want UNC/Kansas/Kentucky/Duke etc in the Final Four and will shade them an easier path with any opportunity to do so. We just saw it plainly in 2022 when our blind resume was clearly better than Kentucky's, and we beat them twice, including just before selection Sunday and Lunardi made it clear we couldn't improve our seed to get a better draw than UK or Duke regardless of all that.

Him saying that UNC is still alive for the #1 this late in the process tells me that he knows they will get preference if things look evenish. That head to head win and better overall record affords the committee a ton of cover, unfortunately.
 
You said this in a much more detailed way than I was going to be able to. But I heard many years ago, it's not just the committee in the room. It's t.v. and advertisers.

They want UNC/Kansas/Kentucky/Duke etc in the Final Four and will shade them an easier path with any opportunity to do so. We just saw it plainly in 2022 when our blind resume was clearly better than Kentucky's, and we beat them twice, including just before selection Sunday and Lunardi made it clear we couldn't improve our seed to get a better draw than UK or Duke regardless of all that.

Him saying that UNC is still alive for the #1 this late in the process tells me that he knows they will get preference if things look evenish. That head to head win and better overall record affords the committee a ton of cover, unfortunately.
But Lunardi still has us as a 1…
 
I don’t believe I ever said anything about the distance factor affecting ratings. So, I’m not sure why you are putting those words in my mouth. Distance has nothing to do with this. My point simply boiled down to the fact that, region be damned, I think the Committee will try to give the most favorable seeding to blue blood programs if they can. Obviously, the resumes have to be close enough to justify it, but yes having a program like North Carolina on the 1 line is good for TV regardless if they are playing in LA, Dallas, or Boston.
I was just speaking in general about that narrative that was out there…I just don’t know that I see some huge ratings/advertising boost off UNC as a 1 in the West rather than a 2 in the East. To me that argument makes a ton of sense for Arizona for sure, but they obviously took that bad loss. My overall point isn’t that we’ve got a 1 locked up or anything, it’s that imo I think we have it as of today which also means we should control our own destiny still as well considering we will almost certainly have the toughest remaining slate ahead. Many seemed to be suggesting the 1 was gone last night, or that we had been passed up, and that simply isn’t the case as of today imo.
 
Maybe it’s BVS. I don’t know. I’m just not certain the gap is as clear as it needs to be for us to get the 1. Fair or not, as SF has said in some of his posts, this is still a made for TV product and there is some inherent bias baked in for the blue bloods.

My personal opinion is basically that if there are enough justifiable talking points for the Committee, they will always choose the favored child the better seeding. You have to force their hand.

I’m sure you’ll point out that this is illogical, but the way I personally see it is I don’t think Lunardi is getting tipped off all year by the Committee about the way things are leaning until the weekend of Selection Sunday. If he was getting tipped off all year, his bracket projections would be far better and he wouldn’t be ranked so low. That being said, my ears will certainly start to perk up if he is still saying we are a 1-seed next Saturday because I do think that once the Committee has actually made their decisions, they need people out their trying to justify why choices were made, so I would be more apt to believe what he says next weekend compared to this weekend, as crazy as that sounds, I know.
Lunardi doesn’t get tipped at all, either during the season or next weekend. The CBS studio guys don’t even see the bracket until it’s revealed live on-air.
 
The SEC is the 2nd highest rated conference behind the Big 12. I’m confident as the regular season champion, we will be a #1 seed.
 
This is a really nuanced territory, but I don’t want to contribute to the ambiguity. If I were forced to make a call right now, I think we’re a one again after the Arizona loss. I think our win list and lack of bad losses puts us out ahead of UNC. I think Arizona really hurt themselves last night. That said, this is a fragile one seed, if we have it. Head to head is a real thing and a real topic, regardless of the other more important metrics. Storylines, blue blood programs and the desire to keep the big conferences happy are all real inputs. I guarantee you from first person accounts that the Darwinism of selecting teams on narratives and biases happens. Calling that a “conspiracy” is lazy, reductive and ignorant of the real world. When GM/Pontiac was the official sponsor in the early 2000’s they were “talked through” the bracket prior to its release every year. Why? Because they made a 50 million dollar media buy. That’s why. That’s not a “conspiracy”. That’s a fact. Lunardi is almost exactly the creature you describe. He is a hack and not very good at his job. He makes brackets that have direct rule conflicts with pairings that will never happen. He is also an ABC/ESPN/Disney employee. He gets an early look via conversations with the major networks. His brackets are suddenly very good in the last weekend. I’ll also note that he recently echoed my observation that the committee’s desire to have a one from the West in the Western region would bias them to give it to Arizona if they could justify it. Again that is a fact. At this point, they absolutely cannot justify putting Arizona on that line. If they can, they will. The media market, time zones and regional biases are real. In addition to the national advertisers, there are also regional and local advertisers. They want a team from their area. That’s a fact. They don’t need to lobby anyone. The networks’ business model is pretty simple. Advertisers pay the bills. They love blue blood stories. They hate when big programs with big fanbases lose. Right now, this minute, I think that’s our one. It’s a fragile one. That isn’t a conspiracy. It isn’t BVS. It’s economic Darwinism. We need to win a game and maybe two this week. It’d be great if we won all of them. We do not need to exit early (and) have UNC pick up more Q1 wins or have Arizona win their tournament in the face of us losing early. I’m not going to step in and have this conversation ten more times. I can tell you unequivocally that they sit with their rules and metrics every year and generally follow them, but there is pressure and an understanding of who they serve. They step outside those guidelines when it is gray. It has quite literally happened to us before. I think we’re a one today. I think it’s fragile.

I agree with this; this sounds correct. It's still probably a #1 for Tennessee, but it's a #1 with huge "but" attached to it. Like 65% UT/ 35% UNC odds, and those odds can shift. The committee will look for anything that lets them swap UNC into the slot. Momentum in particular will play into it. If UNC wins the ACC tourney, and UT doesn't at least get to the Finals of the SECT, the #1 is probably moved to UNC. Even IF the NCAA Tournament committee says they don't care about the conference tournaments - what they really mean is that they don't care unless it's UNC, Duke, Kentucky, or Kansas, or any big name in the sport.

Had Tennessee beaten Kentucky, the #1 was probably solid - a team goes 4-0 against 4 high seed NCAA teams, you'd have a hard time justifying UNC over UT regardless of tournament performance.

But they didn't, and I've already seen 2-3 national articles this weekend about how UNC is "peaking" and is now in position to claim that final #1 seed. The only way UT stops that is by throttling some of those ranked SEC teams again in the SECT.
 
I agree with this; this sounds correct. It's still probably a #1 for Tennessee, but it's a #1 with huge "but" attached to it. Like 65% UT/ 35% UNC odds, and those odds can shift. The committee will look for anything that lets them swap UNC into the slot. Momentum in particular will play into it. If UNC wins the ACC tourney, and UT doesn't at least get to the Finals of the SECT, the #1 is probably moved to UNC. Even IF the NCAA Tournament committee says they don't care about the conference tournaments - what they really mean is that they don't care unless it's UNC, Duke, Kentucky, or Kansas, or any big name in the sport.

Had Tennessee beaten Kentucky, the #1 was probably solid - a team goes 4-0 against 4 high seed NCAA teams, you'd have a hard time justifying UNC over UT regardless of tournament performance.

But they didn't, and I've already seen 2-3 national articles this weekend about how UNC is "peaking" and is now in position to claim that final #1 seed. The only way UT stops that is by throttling some of those ranked SEC teams again in the SECT.

I would not be surprised at all if they shoved UNC into the 1 spot.
 
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The only thing that makes me think we may still have some work to do for that 1-seed is that the committee had UNC ahead of us in the initial Top 16 reveal and they have not lost a game since. The question is did the committee at any point jump us ahead of UNC when we went on a 7 game win streak beating 3 teams in Quad 1 with 2 being on the road? If they did not then UNC will more than likely get that 1-seed. But I don’t see how they wouldn’t have jumped us ahead of them.
 
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