2024 WNBA Discussion Thread

[Lucy]

Terrific discussion on First Take about WNBA.

Stephen A. Smith stated the females that have layed the foundation are resentful of Caitlin and should be. Although he also said that Caitlin can take the WNBA to greater heights than ever before by being the face of the league. Revenue would skyrocket and all players would reap the benefits.

Interestingly the highest rated WNBA games that have been televised are with Caitlin and the Fever. Sparks attendance for game vs Fever at home was biggest all season for Sparks.

When I think about this whole situation the phrase that comes to my mind is “It’s a shame”.

It’s a shame the WNBA needed a white star to get attention.
It’s a shame that some players in the league are taking their jealousy/frustration out on CC with hard/blatant fouls.
It’s a shame CC can’t stop with the stupid flopping which only exacerbates everything.
It’s a shame that players who do tangle with CC are being targeted by racists on their social media to the point of violent threats.

If you had told me 30 years ago this is where we would be I wouldn’t have believed it. Will we ever learn? Just a sad situation for all.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Come'on man. You would rather die than concede that Caitlin Clark is a fan draw. That takes nothing away from Angel. But you can track ticket sales (Home and away), jersey sales and there is a definite CC effect. ESPN is promoting those games because they know who bringing in the audience.

Will this effect last as the Fever and Clark struggle? That is an interesting question but to this point, there has been a CC effect. I think Reese is bringing some attention as well but it is more supplemental.

I’m not saying she doesn’t have a fanbase, but these numbers are because of the constant coverage of only her, so y don’t think that draws in viewers? if they didn’t comc[Stanton promote her for the past year up until now, and just let it play out organically, would the numbers be the same?

 

[VolBall09]

When I think about this whole situation the phrase that comes to my mind is “It’s a shame”.

It’s a shame the WNBA needed a white star to get attention.
It’s a shame that some players in the league are taking their jealousy/frustration out on CC with hard/blatant fouls.
It’s a shame CC can’t stop with the stupid flopping which only exacerbates everything.
It’s a shame that players who do tangle with CC are being targeted by racists on their social media to the point of violent threats.

If you had told me 30 years ago this is where we would be I wouldn’t have believed it. Will we ever learn? Just a sad situation for all.

Most frustrating thing is that this hasn’t just been given to Clark. She has earned every accolade she’s ever gotten. She works incredibly hard, she’s extremely competitive and very humble.

Making it about race is a disgrace. She has gotten the attention she has because of her play and her shooting. Nothing to do with her skin color.

Plenty of other white women have gone through the W. NONE of them had the game and appeal of Clark. Including Sabrina, Plum etc.

 

[lvocd]

It was the unbelievable frequency and accuracy of the eye-popping logo threes she made at the college level, along with the unbelievable number of times she won games in the last second with those shots, that made Clark into a cult figure and the definition of the word "phenomenon."

And in between those jaw-dropping shots she was often making spectacular passes to teammates to help contribute even MORE points to games. I mean, how many times did that kid score 30-plus points and dish 10-plus assists and then snag tons of rebounds, too?

There literally had never been anything quite like her before and it was made all the more remarkable, IMO, because she really doesn't much look like she should be able to do all that. Kinda like, to me, the 25-year-old guard Luka Doncic for the Mavs.

Before the season started I figured this mess would happen and am sad that is the case. Hopefully, though, everyone will soon get over it and get on with growing the game. I just wish Clark was on a better, more veteran team so that maybe a lot of her turnovers would be going on the books as assists, instead.

As for Chennedy Carter, she always struck me as having an ego that is way too outsized for her own good. Self-confidence is usually good, but with her it's not carried in a healthy way. Her selfish attitude has hurt her career. She is a terrific player, IMO, but in the W it takes more than just that, I think, to be successful.

 

[Voltopia]

It was the unbelievable frequency and accuracy of the eye-popping logo threes she made at the college level, along with the unbelievable number of times she won games in the last second with those shots, that made Clark into a cult figure and the definition of the word "phenomenon."

And in between those jaw-dropping shots she was often making spectacular passes to teammates to help contribute even MORE points to games. I mean, how many times did that kid score 30-plus points and dish 10-plus assists and then snag tons of rebounds, too?

But to hear some tell it, she's a product of marketing and any other player with the same amount of marketing would be just as popular. It's not her, it's just the media making people care about her.

As I said before, the lengths some of the folks on here go to try to dismiss Clark's impact is silly. Hell, I'm even willing to concede that sometimes she travels, blatantly even, or pushes off, or whatever -- but she also makes those midcourt logo threes, or those needle-threading bounce passes, and those things are exceptional at any level, mens' or womens' game. Do I care about her? Not particularly strongly, but I can see just how different a game she plays than most of the players around her. No wonder she's got the sport's attention. Her game crosses all the boundaries, and gets people talking.

That said, if the pettiness and jealousy of those other WNBA players ends up grinding her down, through physical injuries or whatever, I will have to laugh at it. The very definition of cutting one's nose off to spite one's face.

 

[Lucy]

Most frustrating thing is that this hasn’t just been given to Clark. She has earned every accolade she’s ever gotten. She works incredibly hard, she’s extremely competitive and very humble.

Making it about race is a disgrace. She has gotten the attention she has because of her play and her shooting. Nothing to do with her skin color.

Plenty of other white women have gone through the W. NONE of them had the game and appeal of Clark. Including Sabrina, Plum etc.

I agree that the racial aspect of this situation is disgraceful. But CC being white definitely plays a part in the attention she is garnering as a rookie. Her skills are undoubtedly a big part too but there have been black players who entered the W with more talent, skills and collegiate success than CC who were not nearly as promoted. Our own CP for example.
It is what it is but I hate how this has played out.

 

[madtownvol]

It was the unbelievable frequency and accuracy of the eye-popping logo threes she made at the college level, along with the unbelievable number of times she won games in the last second with those shots, that made Clark into a cult figure and the definition of the word "phenomenon."

And in between those jaw-dropping shots she was often making spectacular passes to teammates to help contribute even MORE points to games. I mean, how many times did that kid score 30-plus points and dish 10-plus assists and then snag tons of rebounds, too?

There literally had never been anything quite like her before and it was made all the more remarkable, IMO, because she really doesn't much look like she should be able to do all that. Kinda like, to me, the 25-year-old guard Luka Doncic for the Mavs.

Before the season started I figured this mess would happen and am sad that is the case. Hopefully, though, everyone will soon get over it and get on with growing the game. I just wish Clark was on a better, more veteran team so that maybe a lot of her turnovers would be going on the books as assists, instead.

As for Chennedy Carter, she always struck me as having an ego that is way too outsized for her own good. Self-confidence is usually good, but with her it's not carried in a healthy way. Her selfish attitude has hurt her career. She is a terrific player, IMO, but in the W it takes more than just that, I think, to be successful.

Her assists totals should be way higher. Of the 3 Fever games, I have watched, her teammates have blown 5 or 6 lay-ups from Clark passes and who knows how many open jumpers.

Unfortunately, Clark's shooting has also been really subpar in most games.

It is true that all rookies have the same quick transition time from the NCAA tournament to the W season but Clark carried more of a load than most in both spheres and her game depends on perpetual motion. Plus, her body is not from a strength and conditioning standpoint, really ready for this kind of physicality.

Rickea and Angel and certainly Cardosa were more ready for the physical challenges.

Clark looks worn down and I am not sure how she gets re-energized in the season. Since the Fever aren;t going anywhere this season, maybe sit her a game of two.

 

[VolBall09]

Her assists totals good be way higher. Of the 3 Fever games, I have watched, her teammates have blown 5 or 6 lay-ups from Clark passes and who knows how many open jumpers.

Unfortunately, Clark's shooting has also been really subpar in most games.

It is true that all rookies have the same quick transition time from the NCAA tournament to the W season but Clark carried more of a load than most in both spheres and her game depends on perpetual motion. Plus, her body is not from a strength and conditioning standpoint, really ready for this kind of physicality.

Rickea and Angel and certainly Cardosa were more ready for the physical challenges.

Clark looks worn down and I am not sure how she gets re-energized in the season. Since the Fever aren;t going anywhere this season, maybe sit her a game of two.

She should not have played against the Liberty. She played heavy minutes the two previous games. One the night before. Didn’t do anything good for her confidence to have her play that game.

Wasn’t going to be close anyway. Sides has made some really questionable decisions all season. Really not understanding what she’s doing with their roster. They were way too thin in the post to start the season, need some more size and better guards in general.

I can think of 5 players not in the league right now that would be better for the Fever than Wheeler, Wallace, Berger, Taylor, Samuelson etc.

 

[lvocd]

The fan blowback from sitting her to rest when so many people bought a ticket just to see her, would likely be damaging.

Yep, Clark desperately needs a break and, for HER sake, they should have let her sit. But dang. The franchise is between a rock and a hard place with her.

 

[madtownvol]

Yeah, top brass need to put a stop to it. This is the most visibility the league has ever had and they are all acting trashy. It’s not just about Clark either. It’s happening across the board.

I was mortified by Natasha Cloud’s post game interview yesterday. Just a string of cuss words and sounds like she has zero education.

Over 25% of their viewers are children and teens. And that is a market they are heavily advertising to trying to build longterm viewership. Parents are going to be clicking that off if stuff like that continues. Have a little class.

I’m no saint and lord knows I love a curse word, but there is a time and a place. Your postgame interview on live television with a bunch of kids watching isn’t it.

It is really weird. The WNBA is having its cultural moment and most in the league seem unprepared to seize it . I think it is partly a function of players thinking in insular terms, about their street cred in the league and their social media feeds and not the big picture, where a more popular league = more $ and better working conditions.

It's dumb and it really started with Taurasi when she was asked about what would be awaiting Clark in WNBA. DT could have played it diplomatic , like hey we have a great influx of new players coming into the league and its gonna be great but they are going to have some adjustments problems like all rookies.,

Instead, she said in paraphrase "we are gonna bring the hammer to this overhyped upstart!!" She valued her moment to sound like a "badass" more than the league and that attitude seems to have crossed over. The tragedy is that DT is close to 40 and her time is truly past (though she seems to be in denial about that) and she should be thinking more about the future of the league and the next generation of players.

I wish Candace had not retired because I think she would have the leadership qualities needed for this transition into a new era.

 

[lvocd]

I agree with others who've said Clark and all the rookies this year will likely be much better next season -- after they've had an offseason to recharge. I truly feel sorry for them right now with how brutal the compressed schedules have been.

Imagine, though, if they were still having to fly commercial instead of charter? Gawd. It always wears me out for two weeks after I take ONE flight lasting just a few hours. It would kill me to do all the flying and then having to play ball at a high level like these players have to do. Obviously they are younger, but still. It really must be exhausting.

 

[Terrells Bay88]

It is really weird. The WNBA is having its cultural moment and most in the league seem unprepared to seize it . I think it is partly a function of players thinking in insular terms, about their street cred in the league and their social media feeds and not the big picture, where a more popular league = more $ and better working conditions.

It's dumb and it really started with Taurasi when she was asked about what would be awaiting Clark in WNBA. DT could have played it diplomatic , like hey we have a great influx of new players coming into the league and its gonna be great but they are going to have some adjustments problems like all rookies.,

Instead, she said in paraphrase "we are gonna bring the hammer to this overhyped upstart!!" She valued her moment to sound like a "badass" more than the league and that attitude seems to have crossed over. The tragedy is that DT is close to 40 and her time is truly past (though she seems to be in denial about that) and she should be thinking more about the future of the league and the next generation of players.

I wish Candace had not retired because I think she would have the leadership qualities needed for this transition into a new era.

Here's what DT said.

 

[1reVOLver]

Here's what DT said.

What Taurasi said was (1) factual, (2) measured—she didn't say or imply that Clark would be or should be targeted. She pointed out the difference in talent and experience that every rookie has to get used to. Of course on this board it is assumed that DT is just a mouthpiece for Satan, but a closer look at the facts casts some doubt.

 

[madtownvol]

Here's what DT said.

Interesting. Her actual statement was not particularly problematic but it was something about her tone coupled with SVP's over the top cackling and applauding that gave it an adversarial edge. There seemed to be more implied than was actually said.

Many others (fairly or not) picked up on DT's comments as being a kind of "warning" to which Taurasi actually sought to disavow:

Diana Taurasi changes course on Caitlin Clark warning: ‘Taken out of context’

Diana Taurasi wants to clarify her Caitlin Clark remarks.

nypost.com

 

[madtownvol]

What Taurasi said was (1) factual, (2) measured—she didn't say or imply that Clark would be or should be targeted. She pointed out the difference in talent and experience that every rookie has to get used to. Of course on this board it is assumed that DT is just a mouthpiece for Satan, but a closer look at the facts casts some doubt.

Anyone associating Taurasi with Satan is over the top and ridiculous. The far more reasonable, and indeed inarguable contention , is that DT is the reincarnation of the treacherous Greek Goddess Eris:

• Eris: The goddess of strife, discord, chaos, and quarrels. She loved to stir up conflicts and arguments among people, especially gods. She was not invited to many parties or celebrations because she always ruined them with her mischief.

 

[Max Roguespierre]

The fan blowback from sitting her to rest when so many people bought a ticket just to see her, would likely be damaging.

Yep, Clark desperately needs a break and, for HER sake, they should have let her sit. But dang. The franchise is between a rock and a hard place with her.

As you say, she is the draw so the league simply can't have her sitting out games. On the other hand, there is little reason for her to be averaging 33 minutes per game. Clark's 29 minutes in the blowout loss to the Liberty in the second game in two days made absolutely no sense.

 

[brittannica]

Anyone associating Taurasi with Satan is over the top and ridiculous. The far more reasonable, and indeed inarguable contention , is that DT is the reincarnation of the treacherous Greek Goddess Eris:

• Eris: The goddess of strife, discord, chaos, and quarrels. She loved to stir up conflicts and arguments among people, especially gods. She was not invited to many parties or celebrations because she always ruined them with her mischief.

 

[Voltopia]

Interesting. Her actual statement was not particularly problematic but it was something about her tone coupled with SVP's over the top cackling and applauding that gave it an adversarial edge. There seemed to be more implied than was actually said.

Many others (fairly or not) picked up on DT's comments as being a kind of "warning" to which Taurasi actually sought to disavow:

Diana Taurasi changes course on Caitlin Clark warning: ‘Taken out of context’

Diana Taurasi wants to clarify her Caitlin Clark remarks.

nypost.com

It was totally a warning. How many times have you seen people say such things about rookies coming into the NBA? Or the NFL? When Victor Wembanyama came into the Spurs, did you hear people on the Spurs talking about how he had to watch out, and how the NBA was totally different? All I recall were people talking about how he was a unique talent who could impact the game at the next level (and even if they commented on his need for growth, it was never a veiled warning). Clark could be that kind of player for the WNBA, but instead of discussing that, it's nothing but the pettiness of group rejection from everyone around her.

I hate playing into the steretypes, I really do, but there is a jealously and frustration behind a lot of thing that's unmistakable. And the word for it all is cattiness.

 

[lvocd]

Add me laughing as hard as I did at this brutal fan response to Chennedy Carter to the long list of reasons I'm probably going to hell:

 

[madtownvol]

It was totally a warning. How many times have you seen people say such things about rookies coming into the NBA? Or the NFL? When Victor Wembanyama came into the Spurs, did you hear people on the Spurs talking about how he had to watch out, and how the NBA was totally different? All I recall were people talking about how he was a unique talent who could impact the game at the next level (and even if they commented on his need for growth, it was never a veiled warning). Clark could be that kind of player for the WNBA, but instead of discussing that, it's nothing but the pettiness of group rejection from everyone around her.

I hate playing into the steretypes, I really do, but there is a jealously and frustration behind a lot of thing that's unmistakable. And the word for it all is cattiness.

That is a relevant comparison. SVP (who I generally like) seems to have taken as a personal cause that there is something "wrong" with the hype surrounding Clark but he had no issues with Wemby being described as "the future of the NBA."

He helped walk Taurasi into those comments.

One difference is that the NBA has this conversation pretty regularly, Before Wemby it was Zion and the sports media are quick to elevate young stars like Anthony "Antman" Edwards or Luca Donic as the new generation of stars, with LeBron and Durnat passing the torch and so on.

And you’re right, no one ask LeBron what would be waiting for Wemby when he stepped on the NBA court.

In contrast, the press around the WNBA has been whether the established stars have been slighted by the attention given to Clark. It does fit the catty stereotype and its not surprising, though disappointing, that the sports media falls into these old tropes about jealous women fighting for attention.

But, the players don;t have to conform to these cliches

The sisterhood narrative, which was so strong on behalf of Brittany Griner during her travails in Russia, seems to totally forgotten when it comes to Clark.

 

[Mafiaboss]

I agree that the racial aspect of this situation is disgraceful. But CC being white definitely plays a part in the attention she is garnering as a rookie. Her skills are undoubtedly a big part too but there have been black players who entered the W with more talent, skills and collegiate success than CC who were not nearly as promoted. Our own CP for example.
It is what it is but I hate how this has played out.

CP had enormous press coverage. Only difference is that when CP entered the WNBA, it was much less visible. CP was on the cover of Sports Illustrated when she was still at UT.

Clark is a talented player. She’s not responsible for media coverage. If the WNBA players want to take up a fight, it should be with the white controlled media companies. Oppression works like this: Let the oppressed think they are the problem so they can fight amongst themselves and leave the people in power alone to make their bags. Players make very little while the majority of the revenue stays at the top. Like always.

People in power love to see the the women defeated.

 

[madtownvol]

CP had enormous press coverage. Only difference is that when CP entered the WNBA, it was much less visible. CP was on the cover of Sports Illustrated when she was still at UT.

Clark is a talented player. She’s not responsible for media coverage. If the WNBA players want to take up a fight, it should be with the white controlled media companies. Oppression works like this: Let the oppressed think they are the problem so they can fight amongst themselves and leave the people in power alone to make their bags. Players make very little while the majority of the revenue stays at the top. Like always.

People in power love to see the the women defeated.

No doubt, there are folks higher up who are very happy players are talking about CC rather than equity issues…

 

[Lucy]

CP had enormous press coverage. Only difference is that when CP entered the WNBA, it was much less visible. CP was on the cover of Sports Illustrated when she was still at UT.

Clark is a talented player. She’s not responsible for media coverage. If the WNBA players want to take up a fight, it should be with the white controlled media companies. Oppression works like this: Let the oppressed think they are the problem so they can fight amongst themselves and leave the people in power alone to make their bags. Players make very little while the majority of the revenue stays at the top. Like always.

People in power love to see the the women defeated.

Don’t disagree with a lot of your post but specifically did Candace get the amount of coverage and incredible build up CC has? CP was heralded for sure but nothing like CC which, in all honesty, is not great for CC.

 

[Terrells Bay88]

That is a relevant comparison. SVP (who I generally like) seems to have taken as a personal cause that there is something "wrong" with the hype surrounding Clark but he had no issues with Wemby being described as "the future of the NBA."

He helped walk Taurasi into those comments.

One difference is that the NBA has this conversation pretty regularly, Before Wemby it was Zion and the sports media are quick to elevate young stars like Anthony "Antman" Edwards or Luca Donic as the new generation of stars, with LeBron and Durnat passing the torch and so on.

And you’re right, no one ask LeBron what would be waiting for Wemby when he stepped on the NBA court.

In contrast, the press around the WNBA has been whether the established stars have been slighted by the attention given to Clark. It does fit the catty stereotype and its not surprising, though disappointing, that the sports media falls into these old tropes about jealous women fighting for attention.

But, the players don;t have to conform to these cliches

The sisterhood narrative, which was so strong on behalf of Brittany Griner during her travails in Russia, seems to totally forgotten when it comes to Clark.

Two totally different situations when it comes to Griner and Clark? Did the sisterhood support Dearica Hamby when she file her grievances against the Las Vegas Aces? Or was that sisterhood versus sisterhood?

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Don’t disagree with a lot of your post but specifically did Candace get the amount of coverage and incredible build up CC has? CP was heralded for sure but nothing like CC which, in all honesty, is not great for CC.

Candace didn’t get nowhere near the nonstop coverage, and that’s coming off back2back Championships. Candace was the best rookie coming into the league that iv’e ever seen and it’s not even close.