2024 WNBA Discussion Thread

[NashVol11]

You thought that was in the confines of the game? Just wow ..

No, which is why it was a flagrant foul. That doesn’t make it “assault instead of a foul,” that’s what a foul is

 

[Amb3096]

Cynthia Cooper, Tina Thompson, and even Rebecca Lobo should be given the most credit. These women were there when WNBA first started and now you never hear their names mentioned. Sad..

I agree that most of the first gen players: Cooper, Thompson, Lobo, Weatherspoon, Staley among others...were great representatives of the WNBA during their early years. The reason I specifically called out Leslie is because she's still involved in promoting/growing the WNBA. I saw a roundtable with her and Draymod Green, and Green rightfully pointed out that the WNBA players talk so much sh!t about the NBA players not supporting them enough when in reality, the NBA players are the biggest advocate of the WNBA. And Lisa knew that, and she apologized profusely for something others have done that she herself would never do in a million years. She gets it, and she understands the reality...unlike the rest of the players. I can't think of a more unlikeable group of professional athletes right now than the WNBA. When the NBA comes of as a class act in comparison, you know you've hit rock bottom.

 

[cobbwebb0710]

Hey guys! I hope everyone is doing well.
We are doing some routine forum maintenance and I have been tasked with passing this along to you guys. If you could move all of your comments/traffic to the baseball forum for a few days, it would be much appreciated.
Thank you for your help and support in this matter.
Go Lady Vols!!

 

[1reVOLver]

Hey guys! I hope everyone is doing well.
We are doing some routine forum maintenance and I have been tasked with passing this along to you guys. If you could move all of your comments/traffic to the baseball forum for a few days, it would be much appreciated.
Thank you for your help and support in this matter.
Go Lady Vols!!

You forgot this.

 

[cobbwebb0710]

You forgot this.View attachment 645837

Damn!
Thanks for the tip.

 

[madtownvol]

By listening to talk shows and reading some post . The reason this is a issue isn't because Caitlin is a rookie who can freaking play the game well. The real issue is Caitlin is a White American from Middle United States.

Would I be ticked off of all the hoopla for Caitlin after busting my hump in the league for years? Probably. Although I would also understand that Caitlin brings views to this league that it has been starving for.

So the question is IF Caitlin was a black woman would there even be a issue?

The race issue with Clark is nuanced and nuance is not something that plays well on a message board, where everything has to be reduced to black and white extremes (no pun intended, well maybe just a little).

Clark was a generational college player and her logo threes brought the extra "wow" factor but if you look at the Clarkies, it seems to be a legion of mostly white girls. So, some of the Clark phenomenon does seem to be a talent X whiteness effect.

The other hard to disprove (or prove) for that matter is that the media is hyping Clark extra hard because she is white. I am not convinced that is the case but it is easy to interpret her fame as a reflection of her appealing to white America.

So, it is possible that some African-American WNBA players harbor some resentment because they see Clark as another example of white privilege.

To your rhetorical question, we have not seen a black player generate this much hype so we don't know and conversely, one can ask why hasn't an elite black player generated this kind of fame to date-- why not Aja Wilson or Arike Ogunbowale, or Jewell Lloyd?

That seems to be the subtle narrative around the Clark backlash (such as it is)-- why HER and why now.

On the other hand, we have not had a black player who has done what Clark did in four years of college ball.

Having said that, you can't disentangle Clark's middle class, midwestern whiteness from her public image and the contrasting racial coding of Angel Reese - who embraces her street image.

Racial stereotypes often work in subtle ways, such as how the media frame athletes and story lines. For example, Clark's on court antics, complaining and F-bombs are cast as an endearing qualities that express her competitive fire, For Reese or other black athletes, similar actions are cast as thuggery.

My complaint about your post, you are only reading Clark in one way-- she is being persecuted for her whiteness without considering the other side of the racial coding,

 

[Mafiaboss]

Candace didn’t get nowhere near the nonstop coverage, and that’s coming off back2back Championships. Candace was the best rookie coming into the league that iv’e ever seen and it’s not even close.

I think it was because there was almost no coverage of WNBA at all. Like there may have been one game a season on tv

 

[Mafiaboss]

Was coverage for WNBA, endorsements, anywhere near where it is today back in 2008? Candace isn’t a victim and her buildup was on par for the times.

I can think of maybe four players of Candace’s early pro days that got any build up.

 

[Mafiaboss]

This season's sh!tshow just proves that I was smart to give up on the WNBA. The entire league reeks of entitlement, perpetual victimhood and pettiness. Gone are the class acts like Lisa Leslie who were actually great ambassadors for the league. Current state is like a cross between Jerry Springer and Real Housewives. Hard pass for me.

Exactly. I mean Pat had the stare and that was enough.

 

[NashVol11]

This season's sh!tshow just proves that I was smart to give up on the WNBA. The entire league reeks of entitlement, perpetual victimhood and pettiness. Gone are the class acts like Lisa Leslie who were actually great ambassadors for the league. Current state is like a cross between Jerry Springer and Real Housewives. Hard pass for me.

A’ja Wilson, Breanna, Napheesa Collier, Sabrina, Plum are all great ambassadors for the league IMO

 

[knoxvol52]

The race issue with Clark is nuanced and nuance is not something that plays well on a message board, where everything has to be reduced to black and white extremes (no pun intended, well maybe just a little).

Clark was a generational college player and her logo threes brought the "extra wow" factor but if you look at the Clarkies, it seems to be a legion of mostly white girls. So, some of the Clark phenomenon does seem to be a talent X whiteness effect.

The other hard to disprove (or prove) for that matter is that the media is hyping Clark extra hard because she is white. I am not convinced that is the case but it is easy to interpret her fame as a reflection of her appealing to white America.

So, it is possible that some African-American WNBA players harbor some resentment because they see Clark as another example of white privilege.

To your rhetorical question, we have not seen a black player generate this much hype so we don't know and conversely, one can ask why hasn't an elite black player generated this kind of fame to date-- why not Aja Wilson?

That seems to be the subtle narrative around the Clark backlash (such as it is)-- why HER and why now.

On the other hand, we have not had a black player who has done what Clark did in four years of college ball.

Having said that, you can't disentangle Clark's middle class, midwestern whiteness from her public image and the contrasting racial coding of Angel Reese - who embraces her street image.

Racial stereotypes often work in subtle ways, such as how the media frame athletes and story lines. For example, Clark's on court antics, complaining and F-bombs are cast as an endearing qualities that express her competitive fire, For Reese or other black athletes, similar actions are cast as thuggery.

My complaint about your post, you are only reading Clark in one way-- she is being persecuted for her whiteness without considering the other side of the racial coding,

I was only posting what I've heard from the National media,and read on message boards.
Just asking a question but thanks for replying. As for not marketing Aja Wilson that's a question for the WNBA not me, I wouldn't mind any female being the face of league.

 

[Mafiaboss]

I agree that the racial aspect of this situation is disgraceful. But CC being white definitely plays a part in the attention she is garnering as a rookie. Her skills are undoubtedly a big part too but there have been black players who entered the W with more talent, skills and collegiate success than CC who were not nearly as promoted. Our own CP for example.
It is what it is but I hate how this has played out.

Still, it’s not Clark’s fault that the media is using her.

 

[Mafiaboss]

I really liked TSpoons statement:


But Pat McAfee, good God man! Casually called CC a "white bi*ch" for starters:

I think he was trying to be hip hop cool, but ended up being that oblivious white guy who doesn't realize there's things they say that he can't get away with.

Anyway, everyone is talking about it; have heard it discussed on many cable news outlets. Sadly, it will be another ratings boost for all the wrong reasons.

Yeah, Spoon’s statement is perfect. Kennedy tho says she regrets nothing.

 

[Mafiaboss]

The race issue with Clark is nuanced and nuance is not something that plays well on a message board, where everything has to be reduced to black and white extremes (no pun intended, well maybe just a little).

Clark was a generational college player and her logo threes brought the "extra wow" factor but if you look at the Clarkies, it seems to be a legion of mostly white girls. So, some of the Clark phenomenon does seem to be a talent X whiteness effect.

The other hard to disprove (or prove) for that matter is that the media is hyping Clark extra hard because she is white. I am not convinced that is the case but it is easy to interpret her fame as a reflection of her appealing to white America.

So, it is possible that some African-American WNBA players harbor some resentment because they see Clark as another example of white privilege.

To your rhetorical question, we have not seen a black player generate this much hype so we don't know and conversely, one can ask why hasn't an elite black player generated this kind of fame to date-- why not Aja Wilson?

That seems to be the subtle narrative around the Clark backlash (such as it is)-- why HER and why now.

On the other hand, we have not had a black player who has done what Clark did in four years of college ball.

Having said that, you can't disentangle Clark's middle class, midwestern whiteness from her public image and the contrasting racial coding of Angel Reese - who embraces her street image.

Racial stereotypes often work in subtle ways, such as how the media frame athletes and story lines. For example, Clark's on court antics, complaining and F-bombs are cast as an endearing qualities that express her competitive fire, For Reese or other black athletes, similar actions are cast as thuggery.

My complaint about your post, you are only reading Clark in one way-- she is being persecuted for her whiteness without considering the other side of the racial coding,

Yes. When you have control of the narrative (listen up Reese) get to know yourself before you open your mouth.

 

[madtownvol]

Bob Costas on CNN with a good comparison on how there is almost no conversation around Alyssa Thomas committing a flagrant foul level 2 on Angel Reese versus the media firestorm over the relatively less extreme Chennedy Carter blindside shot on Clarke:

It's a ‘Black on Black’ incident…you don't have that dynamic that people can comment on but also exaggerate and make the entire story.”

 

[Amb3096]

A’ja Wilson, Breanna, Napheesa Collier, Sabrina, Plum are all great ambassadors for the league IMO

Collier and Sabrina, I will agree with you. Less so for the other 3.

 

[cobbwebb0710]

This whole debate is foolish and people are foolish for allowing themselves to get baited into such ignorance.
Who gives a if a player is black or white? If she’s a baller, she’s a baller, stop depending on ESPN, CNN, FOX News, etc to think for you and start forming your own opinion.
We all know Clark is good, we all know Reese is good, I don’t need some moronic, talking head on ESPN to force me to chose one over the other, based on skin color.
People need to wake the F up and realize there are bigger issues in this world but as long as we continue to sheepishly buy into the forced division of black basketball player A and white basketball player B, the propaganda and narrative will continue and will divide us further.
Wake up people and start thinking for yourselves!

 

[GameTime]

Caitlin is one hell of a fine player that happens to be a rookie......Some of the veterans are going to show her, (at least to them) she is not all that...

If Caitlin had been black and the other girl white, hip checking the hell out of her from her blind side, the call of racism would be echoed throughout the land; and everyone knows it....It's the times we live in.

So let it be written, so let it be done....

 

[madtownvol]

This whole debate is foolish and people are foolish for allowing themselves to get baited into such ignorance.
Who gives a if a player is black or white? If she’s a baller, she’s a baller, stop depending on ESPN, CNN, FOX News, etc to think for you and start forming your own opinion.
We all know Clark is good, we all know Reese is good, I don’t need some moronic, talking head on ESPN to force me to chose one over the other, based on skin color.
People need to wake the F up and realize there are bigger issues in this world but as long as we continue to sheepishly buy into the forced division of black basketball player A and white basketball player B, the propaganda and narrative will continue and will divide us further.
Wake up people and start thinking for yourselves!

Thank you intrepid, heroic free thinker!!! Let me apply my extra layer of tin foil. Ah, finally free from "their" mind control signals.

Here is the thing, much of the discussion today is analyzing why sports media (and Xitter verse) are hyping this incident so much and in particular ways. I don't think many are actually taking "sides" but considering how and why the sides are being culturally drawn.

As I said previously, nuanced discussions are not the standard stuff of message boards so thank you for ensuring this place remains a "no nuance" zone (for "free thinkers" of course).

 

[Mafiaboss]

Bob Costas on CNN with a good comparison on how there is almost no conversation around Alyssa Thomas committing a flagrant foul level 2 on Angel Reese versus the media firestorm over the relatively less extreme Chennedy Carter blindside shot on Clarke:

Yep.

 

[cobbwebb0710]

Thank you intrepid, heroic free thinker!!! Let me apply my extra layer of tin foil. Ah, finally free from "their" mind control signals.

Here is the thing, much of the discussion today is analyzing why sports media (and Xitter verse) are hyping this incident so much and in particular ways. I don't think many are actually taking "sides" but considering how and why the sides are being culturally drawn.

As I said previously, nuanced discussions are not the standard stuff of message boards so thank you for ensuring this place remains a "no nuance" zone (for "free thinkers" of course).

So you agree with me, is that what you’re trying to admit?

 

[cobbwebb0710]

Thank you intrepid, heroic free thinker!!! Let me apply my extra layer of tin foil. Ah, finally free from "their" mind control signals.

Here is the thing, much of the discussion today is analyzing why sports media (and Xitter verse) are hyping this incident so much and in particular ways. I don't think many are actually taking "sides" but considering how and why the sides are being culturally drawn.

As I said previously, nuanced discussions are not the standard stuff of message boards so thank you for ensuring this place remains a "no nuance" zone (for "free thinkers" of course).

You know why the media is hyping this thing, you can deny it all you want, it’s race baiting, nothing more, nothing less. ESPN is fully aware of what they are doing.
naivety or simply sticking your head in the sand, a lot of people are sadly guilty of one or the other these days.
And yes, I do take pride in being able to formulate an opinion on my own, more people should try it. Another thing, you spew your opinions on here constantly, why shouldn’t I?
Try the free thinking thing, it’s actually refreshing.

 

[madtownvol]

You know why the media is hyping this thing, you can deny it all you want, it’s race baiting, nothing more, nothing less. ESPN is fully aware of what they are doing.
naivety or simply sticking your head in the sand, a lot of people are sadly guilty of one or the other these days.
And yes, I do take pride in being able to formulate an opinion on my own, more people should try it. Another thing, you spew your opinions on here constantly, why shouldn’t I?
Try the free thinking thing, it’s actually refreshing.

Did I suggest that you should not post? You seem to be confusing disagreement with censorship and oppression (an all too common error).

You asserted that everyone commenting on the media coverage of this Carter-Clark kerfuffle are media dupes living in some kind of denial about the racial subtext.

If you express such a "free thinking" opinion, it seems hypocritical to whine about it when someone begs to differ.

Your framing seems to be "my thoughts are free thinking" and "anyone who disagrees with me is a media controlled sheeple". Such a stance is not conducive to any kind of dialogue.

 

[Silence Dogood]

Once the media and some of the black WNBA players played the racism card, it was all over for Caitlin Clark.

Clark should get out of her Indiana contract and go play in Europe where she can still make a good living.

Let Angel Reese and others keep the increased ticket sales and TV viewership that Clark brought to the WNBA.

 

[madtownvol]

Once the media and some of the black WNBA players played the racism card, it was all over for Caitlin Clark.

Clark should get out of her Indiana contract and go play in Europe where she can still make a good living.

Let Angel Reese and others keep the increased ticket sales and TV viewership that Clark brought to the WNBA.

Just for the record, it is not "all over" for Caitlin Clark.

She is currently sitting on about $30+ million of endorsement deals, much of which is tied to the US market.

She is not going to take her ball and go to Europe.