7th in AP Poll

#251
#251
tim said:
I listed other factors, minus SOS, which we are ahead or close to Alabama. And, I am specifically talking about Alabama.
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SOS does. Quality wins. BAD LOSSES. I don’t think total points or things like that matter at all. Record matters then all the previous things mentioned.
 
#252
#252
I swear, nobody has more Tennessee bias than I do but even I can't see how we would be ahead of Alabama at this point, their two losses were by a combined 4 points, they had us beat but poor clock management cost them, LSU played out of their minds to barely beat them, they have not looked nearly as overrated as we did against Georgia and they didn't lay down against a mediocre team like we did not to mention they still have their Heisman QB and we lost our hopeful Heisman QB, I wish it were different but it is what it is.
 
#253
#253
C-south said:
I know you were joking. I guess it shows how much bad losses play into it now.
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I'm actually fine with it either way. If we win our bowl we'll finish nicely and it will help us in recruiting. Can't complain about that.
 
#254
#254
tim said:
No, but maybe 5th.. Definitely ahead of Alabama.
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Take out the names Tennessee and Alabama. One has two top ten wins, one head to head with the other but they’ve lost their starting QB and lost a late season game to a crappy team by a ton. One has two road losses to top ten teams by a total of like 4 pts and have won several games since then. Forget the conference tie breaker bs, which if those teams has the best chance of winning a national title if you put them in the playoffs.

If Hooker is healthy and you barely lose to Carolina then we have an argument for sure. I’ll grant you that.
 
#255
#255
C-south said:
SOS does. Quality wins. BAD LOSSES. I don’t think total points or things like that matter at all. Record matters than all the previous things mentioned.
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points do indeed matter. If they didn’t the SC loss wouldn’t have hurt us as bad. But we don’t have to use that stat. We have a head to head result with an identical record
 
#256
#256
tim said:
points do indeed matter. If they didn’t the SC loss wouldn’t have hurt us as bad. But we don’t have to use that stat. We have a head to head result with an identical record
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I was talking pure total points as a tie breaker. I thought that’s what you meant. I think terrible losses like with USCjr is far worse than beating say a Ball state by 1.
 
#257
#257
DaddyChad said:
Take out the names Tennessee and Alabama. One has two top ten wins, one head to head with the other but they’ve lost their starting QB and lost a late season game to a crappy team by a ton. One has two road losses to top ten teams by a total of like 4 pts and have won several games since then. Forget the conference tie breaker bs, which if those teams has the best chance of winning a national title if you put them in the playoffs.

If Hooker is healthy and you barely lose to Carolina then we have an argument for sure. I’ll grant you that.
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Head to head, lost to a team that we beat by 20. Week to week really doesn’t (or shouldn’t) count unless we have to go all the way down to common opponents. No other tournament is so speculative and full of subjectivity. It’s as simple as “record and head to head” when determining seeding
 
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#259
#259
Stephen Gray said:
I wish we were ahead and can see a strong argument since we beat them but they lost their games by a combined 4 points and we lost ours by like 39 iirc. I can see that as a strong argument too.
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If we are gonna do that might as well look at average scoring margin per game and tennessee sits at #4 in the nation right in front of bama who is #5
 
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#260
#260
tim said:
Head to head, lost to a team that we beat by 20. Week to week really doesn’t (or shouldn’t) count unless we have to go all the way down to common opponents. No other tournament is so speculative and full of subjectivity. It’s as simple as “record and head to head” when determining seeding
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Well this is college football, it definitely is FOS and political a great amount of the time.
 
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#261
#261
tim said:
Head to head, lost to a team that we beat by 20. Week to week really doesn’t (or shouldn’t) count unless we have to go all the way down to common opponents. No other tournament is so speculative and full of subjectivity. It’s as simple as “record and head to head” when determining seeding
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I assume people that matter watch games of the teams that matter. They can see how good a team is in wins and losses. We had a terrible loss to a bad team. It wasn’t the first time our defense looked bad. They obviously took it into account.
 
#262
#262
C-south said:
I assume people that matter watch games of the teams that matter. They can see how good a team is in wins and losses. We had a terrible loss to a bad team. It wasn’t the first time our defense looked bad. They obviously took it into account.
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So explain Oregon and LSU’s ability to rise with similar losses? I assume that there are seeding rules that limit subjectivity or else it’s like the Russians playing favorites in the Olympics.
 
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#264
#264
tim said:
So explain Oregon and LSU’s ability to rise with similar losses? I assume that there are seeding rules that limit subjectivity or else it’s like the Russians playing favorites in the Olympics.
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When it was a question Oregon had lost to the same team we did and I think we were above them. LSU had some good wins but again, they didn’t pass us until we were blown out by a bad team.
 
#265
#265
Stephen Gray said:
I wish we were ahead and can see a strong argument since we beat them but they lost their games by a combined 4 points and we lost ours by like 39 iirc. I can see that as a strong argument too.
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They also won 2 games by a combined 4 points. Why isnt that taken into account? We have the same record, we won the head to head, and we boat raced the only other team that beat them. There really is no excuse to put them above us.
 
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#266
#266
Brave Volunteer said:
The also won 2 games by a combined 4 points. Why isnt that taken into account?
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It would be fair to do so, in my opinion, but also I could see more scrutiny given to losses. I would put us ahead and think my reasoning is fair, but there are several others way I could see the decision being made that choose Alabama ahead of us that I also think are fair. For that matter I can also think of other evaluative criteria that put us ahead and are reasonable too.
 
#267
#267
Brave Volunteer said:
They also won 2 games by a combined 4 points. Why isnt that taken into account? We have the same record, we won the head to head, and we boat raced the only other team that beat them. There really is no excuse to put them above us.
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That’s exactly why I say week to week shouldn’t matter unless there wasn’t a head to head. Teams have good and bad games. They match up well with some and not others. It’s wins and losses then head to head then common opponents/sos etc. all imo
 
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#268
#268
Brave Volunteer said:
They also won 2 games by a combined 4 points. Why isnt that taken into account? We have the same record, we won the head to head, and we boat raced the only other team that beat them. There really is no excuse to put them above us.
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Really depends on if you want to look at who the better team is today. And I’ll grant you usually that standard isn’t used but Tennessee without Hooker has zero chance of beating Georgia. Idk that Tennessee is one of the top four teams without Hooker either.
 
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#269
#269
Brave Volunteer said:
They also won 2 games by a combined 4 points. Why isnt that taken into account? We have the same record, we won the head to head, and we boat raced the only other team that beat them. There really is no excuse to put them above us.
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Unless you get “boat raced” by a team you’re more than a 3 touchdown favorite over.
 
#270
#270
tim said:
That’s exactly why I say week to week shouldn’t matter unless there wasn’t a head to head. Teams have good and bad games. They match up well with some and not others. It’s wins and losses then head to head then common opponents/sos etc. all imo
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I your method. The CFB apparently has some guidance on some factors to consider, but as far as I can tell, the AP and Coach's poll do not. Like I said, I like the things you choose to factor in, and i like the priority you give them, but if every pollster should be using this method, it needs to be written somewhere. If not, any other number of methods exist which could have different results but still be reasonable.

For instance, the SP+ rating and the FPI+ are a couple of predictive models that would have Alabama ahead of us. One person's method might be to use model standings as a tie breaker for two teams with the same record. I don't like it when there is a head to head myself, but it is a fair method.

Plenty of people and models think Alabama is the better team and would beat us if we played them again. I think we are better, and certainly were before Hooker went down, and that we would actually beat them even worse, because Bryce Young being superman is what made that game so close. That said, the fact that we beat them does not mean we are the better team any more than South Carolina beating us means they are. What any one win means is only that on that day one team was better than the other.
 
#272
#272
C-south said:
After we lost to UGA we had the absolute easiest path to get in imaginable. We blew it and have nobody to blame but ourselves. Who knows what really happened at SC but after that we have no argument to be ahead of any 1 or 2 loss team. You also have to take into account we don’t have Hooker because everyone else is.
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We have a very logical argument to be ahead of Alabama.
 
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#273
#273
BowlBrother85 said:
We have a very logical argument to be ahead of Alabama.
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We have several very logical arguments to be ahead of Alabama. I even subscribe to one myself. There are also several very logical arguments for Alabama to be ahead of us. In the absence of instructions on what things matter and how much, pollsters can decide where two teams are placed in reasonable and fair ways and come to different conclusions.
 
#274
#274
How freakin awesome is it we are even having this conversation? Two years ago, it looked like we may never be “back”, and now, we are ranked 7th in the nation with a 10-2 record and a chance at 11-2. Wow.
 
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