9/11 Conspiracy Thread

#826
#826
OrangeWayOfLife said:
I understand the difference, but how many arms deals, supply drops, etc could be hid in 2.3T? A lot
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Did you read this that was posted earlier? Did you read it with the same open mind that you watch the videos you posted?

Missing Trillions - 911myths

It gets squarely at the issue of records and the "theory" that some whistle blowing pile of records was available only in one particular area of the Pentagon.

It also clarifies what it means to say something can't be "accounted for".

It also clearly shows that the timing of the Rumsfeld statement is cherry picked and the information was frequently discussed much earlier than 9/10/11 and subsequent to that time.
 
#827
#827
Isn't it the most American exceptionalist thing to do to say that something like 9-11 "couldn't have been done by a bunch of brown, towel-heads; therefore, it had to be us!"?

I call this new trend in American exceptionalism "anti-exceptionalism." In many ways, it's actually much more extreme; certainly more perfidious. It goes under the guise of being objective, non-nationalistic, and reasonable, yet, if you look closely, the fundamental tenets of exceptionalism are still there: basically that the US is an essentially unique country preeminent among the rest and the only one capable of national sovereignty; everyone else is just passively observing.
 
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#830
#830
volprof said:
Isn't it the most American exceptionalist thing to do to say that something like 9-11 "couldn't have been done by a bunch of brown, towel-heads; therefore, it had to be us!"?

I call this new trend in American exceptionalism "anti-exceptionalism." In many ways, it's actually much more extreme; certainly more perfidious. It goes under the guise of being objective, non-nationalistic, and reasonable, yet, if you look closely, the fundamental tenets of exceptionalism are still there: basically that the US is an essentially unique country preeminent among the rest and the only one capable of national sovereignty; everyone else is just passively observing.
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You seem to have the same misperception of the term our president does.
 
#831
#831
volinbham said:
Did you read this that was posted earlier? Did you read it with the same open mind that you watch the videos you posted?

Missing Trillions - 911myths

It gets squarely at the issue of records and the "theory" that some whistle blowing pile of records was available only in one particular area of the Pentagon.

It also clarifies what it means to say something can't be "accounted for".

It also clearly shows that the timing of the Rumsfeld statement is cherry picked and the information was frequently discussed much earlier than 9/10/11 and subsequent to that time.
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I believe the money was used for nefarious things and if the truth would have came out on who was funded and who we were doing deals with it would've sparked a major problem with the American people and our allies, and could've also sparked a major conflict between developed nations.

I have yet to be able to prove the info for that information was stored in wedge one, I'm acknowledging that. However, the attack was used as an excuse the following year as not being able to provide a full budget so that leads me to believe financial data was stored there.

If some one could prove transaction history was stored there, then this thing would start growing legs


Edit: and I also made the statement that Rumsfield had been getting questioned on the unaccounted for money well before 9/11
 
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#833
#833
OrangeWayOfLife said:
I believe the money was used for nefarious things and if the truth would have came out on who was funded and who we were doing deals with it would've sparked a major problem with the American people and our allies, and could've also sparked a major conflict between developed nations.

I have yet to be able to prove the info for that information was stored in wedge one, I'm acknowledging that. However, the attack was used as an excuse the following year as not being able to provide a full budget so that leads me to believe financially data was stored there.

If some one could prove transaction history was stored there, then this thing would start growing legs


Edit: and I also made the statement that Rumsfield had been getting questioned on the unaccounted for money well before 9/11
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This is an admirable bit of honesty. It's something that none of the other truthers in this thread have even come close to admitting. Props to you.
 
#835
#835
bamawriter said:
I have absolutely no expertise on the subject, but in reading that, the conclusion reached by the headline doesn't seem to be supported by the information presented in the rest of the blog post.
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I didn't expect you to understand it. It's basically saying that ACARS was still transmitting 20 minutes after crash. Utterly impossible if an aircraft is completely incinerated.
 
#836
#836
OrangeWayOfLife said:
I'm sorry, what were your questions?
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My apologies. You did answer them.

But it still doesn't change the fact as much as you'd love to believe they only kept data on one server, they didn't.

Trust me, I was military for 20 years and know the levels they back up data like that. Even if it is sensitive information, they still will back it up in different locations.
 
#837
#837
AirVol said:
I didn't expect you to understand it. It's basically saying that ACARS was still transmitting 20 minutes after crash. Utterly impossible if an aircraft is completely incinerated.
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This may be a result of my admitted lack of expertise, or it may be a simply flaw in the way the piece is written, but it reads as if that message were being sent to Flight 175, not from it. The piece doesn't effectively establish when the flight's active transmission ability ceased.
 
#838
#838
Grand Vol said:
My apologies. You did answer them.

But it still doesn't change the fact as much as you'd love to believe they only kept data on one server, they didn't.

Trust me, I was military for 20 years and know the levels they back up data like that. Even if it is sensitive information, they still will back it up in different locations.
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Have to keep your head on a swivel in here lol. Were there different SOPs for backing up information of different levels or was it the same procedure across the board?
 
#839
#839
AirVol said:
The transponder sends back a code "squawk code", or altitude information to help air traffic controllers to identify the aircraft and to maintain separation between planes.

GPS is used for the plane primarily, air traffic control network is still almost entirely radar-based.

Did you read this article on ACARS that I posted in the "14 years" thread?

ACARS CONFIRMED - 9/11 AIRCRAFT AIRBORNE LONG AFTER CRASH
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Very interesting stuff to say the least...

And thanks for the answer. My reason for asking was because I would find it hard to believe that amatuer flyers could turn planes around hundreds of miles away from their target and navigate back to hit them precisely without the aid of a computer system..
 
#840
#840
bamawriter said:
This may be a result of my admitted lack of expertise, or it may be a simply flaw in the way the piece is written, but it reads as if that message were being sent to Flight 175, not from it. The piece doesn't effectively establish when the flight's active transmission ability ceased.
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Lack of expertise? Really? You are questioning expert pilots with 100's of thousands of flying hours on 757 and 767? And excuse me, how much experience of flying do you have on these airframes again? I must've missed that part.
 
#842
#842
Pacer92 said:
Very interesting stuff to say the least...

And thanks for the answer. My reason for asking was because I would find it hard to believe that amatuer flyers could turn planes around hundreds of miles away from their target and navigate back to hit them precisely without the aid of a computer system..
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Define "amateur".
 
#843
#843
OrangeWayOfLife said:
Have to keep your head on a swivel in here lol. Were there different SOPs for backing up information of different levels or was it the same procedure across the board?
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From my understanding it would have been done across the board, especially with electronic data like budgets and stuff. It's not entirely ultra-sensitive information.

Provided my time in SIPR systems is somewhat limited, but I do know the data I had access to was backed up in several locations.
 
#844
#844
AirVol said:
Lack of expertise? Really? You are questioning expert pilots with 100's of thousands of flying hours on 757 and 767? And excuse me, how much experience of flying do you have on these airframes again? I must've missed that part.
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I'm not questioning the author's experience or expertise. I'm questioning the conclusion reached given the facts presented in the piece in question. I fully admit that my questions could be based on my lack of expertise, or the fact that the writer isn't terribly good at laying out the facts. Neither possibility casts any dispersion on any person.

I'm simply trying to figure out how the conclusion was reached based on the facts provided.
 
#845
#845
Grand Vol said:
From my understanding it would have been done across the board, especially with electronic data like budgets and stuff. It's not entirely ultra-sensitive information.

Provided my time in SIPR systems is somewhat limited, but I do know the data I had access to was backed up in several locations.
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I guess it would take someone with expertise in dealing with top secret information to answer, even then they might not even be allowed to, but I would like to know the backup procedure for covert ops. Such as weapons deals that are 100% done under the table, that only NSA or whoever would know about. Seems plausible to be it would be contained in a single, secure location so it could "constat have an eye on it" for lack of words
 
#846
#846
volprof said:
Perhaps.

There are different forms of exceptionalism, and my above post admittedly simplified for the mere purpose of trying as much as possible not to sound like a scholar hack.

I'm an American exceptionalist myself in the sense that I see the US as a fundamentally unique nation with a fundamentally unique political, economic, and ideological outlook on the world. I also see its history, formation, and organization as unique. The American character as unique as well.

And in many regards, I see these things as making us superior. I do not, however, see these things as necessarily barring the needs and desires of others who are different from us.

The American anti-exceptionalism that you see here in this thread holds many (maybe not all) of these same tenets but refuses to value the actions of other agents. Instead, everything is reduced to a mere American grand scheme. Behind everything that goes on anywhere around the globe, the thinking goes, there's surely an American somewhere lurking in the shadows. The implication being that "these other people can't do this stuff. They're not smart or powerful enough."
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The highlighted part gets at the concept.

The highlighted part in your earlier post is the strawman version - AE isn't a claim that the US is better than other countries. As you note, it was coined to represent the uniqueness of mentality and opportunity (at least at the time). I'll add the spirit of individualism was part of the concept.

As for the anti-American exceptionalism conclusion I'm not sure I agree on that one though I do agree that as Americans we tend to think the world revolves around us (a concept not to be confused with American Exceptionalism)
 
#848
#848
OrangeWayOfLife said:
I guess it would take someone with expertise in dealing with top secret information to answer, even then they might not even be allowed to, but I would like to know the backup procedure for covert ops. Such as weapons deals that are 100% done under the table, that only NSA or whoever would know about. Seems plausible to be it would be contained in a single, secure location so it could "constat have an eye on it" for lack of words
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Actually that doesn't seem plausible at all. NSA or whoever would be taking a staggeringly stupid risk by having no off-site backups in case one location was compromised. And I don't mean compromised by the destruction of the site, though that would certainly be important. I mean that they would need to be able to shut one site down in the case of a hack or any other penetration of the primary system or server.

Sorry, but that logic doesn't track.
 
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#850
#850
OrangeWayOfLife said:
I guess it would take someone with expertise in dealing with top secret information to answer, even then they might not even be allowed to, but I would like to know the backup procedure for covert ops. Such as weapons deals that are 100% done under the table, that only NSA or whoever would know about. Seems plausible to be it would be contained in a single, secure location so it could "constat have an eye on it" for lack of words
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Again, don't underestimate the government's eye for redundancy. Even black ops budgets are saved somewhere even with an "open checkbook" for lack of a better term.

I think you're making more of a deal out of this than really is apparent. Saying "we can't account for $3.2T in spending" is not nefarious by any means. I mean, had Rummy found that out and known 9/11 was going to happen, why say anything? Why even alert the press to the possibility that accounting sucked? Why not let the attack go forward and cover up the matter entirely?

What point was made by announcing to the world there were significant accounting errors just prior to an attack? Would it have changed anything? And it's not like $3.2T was made overnight. You are talking years, likely even decades of unaccounted for spending. So pointing out a systemic problem in the comptroller's office wasn't going to change the tides.
 
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