Abortion debate (split from bball forum)

#201
#201
bamasucks76 said:
I thought you didnt get the argument of some being wrong and others not.
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i have no idea if a fetus is a person at 2 weeks before the major organs develop. i can safetly assume it is at 6 months when it's weeks away from surviving on it's own. i'm not saying i have no moral qualms with abortion. i have quite a few. but i'm not going to pretend i know the exact second that it's murder.
 
#202
#202
therealUT said:
So, if the Holy Spirit told you to have an abortion, yet you had already successfully rallied to outlaw abortions, you would then have to break the law. Correct?

Why not just be prudent and not force the law one way or the other if the Holy Spirit has yet to counsel you, on this specific issue? Or, the Holy Spirit has and you think it (an immutable God) will later change its mind?
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My head hurts.
 
#203
#203
bamasucks76 said:
Hence the debate...... if the baby is alive, which it is, then its wrong and a crime.

You didnt say one way or the other. That was the point in the question mark.
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An early fetus is just as alive as my tonsils. Is it morally wrong for me to remove my tonsils?

Stem cells can now be harvested from teeth, and theoretically manipulated into embryos. Is it wrong for me to lose my teeth?
 
#204
#204
utvolpj said:
not really the debate at all. And your question implied I had said there was no life which is ridiculously false.
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What? It is the debate, if its not alive then it changes everything.

therealUT said:
What is your definition of life?
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Being alive.

Can you tell me when a baby becomes alive? When it has a heartbeat at least i would say. Since we cannot say exactly when, but most abortions happen after this, then we shouldnt do it. Additionally,God said we are formed in the womb and he already knows us. Not good enough for you, but it is for me.
 
#207
#207
bamasucks76 said:
Why do you force your belief on other forms murder? Still dont believe the baby is alive?
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Really, that is really astounding, you don't believe the baby is alive? Don't you know that when a baby is dead it no longer continues to develop.
In order to grow an organism has to be alive.
 
#208
#208
jerryvol44 said:
Really, that is really astounding, you don't believe the baby is alive? Don't you know that when a baby is dead it no longer continues to develop.
In order to grow an organism has to be alive.
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we kill lots of things the size of a fetus that are alive. don't you think the debate is when it becomes human?
 
#209
#209
rjd970 said:
OK. But the question is how do you know what God is and isn't against? You are admitting you see the stupidity of doing drugs by your own reasoning? How do you know God thinks it is wrong, and how do you know God thinks abortion is wrong, given you stated the following:
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God said "you shall not murder." The only way we know anything about God is what He has told us.
 
#214
#214
rjd970 said:
Maybe, maybe not. But clearly, there are better ways. You assume his way is best because he is perfect by definition, so everything flowing down from that must be perfect.

Here in the rational world, we look at the evidence first and then draw conclusions about what is behind it all.

Clearly, if this is the work of a supreme creator, I am unimpressed. This wouldn't even pass the mustard for a bad office temp.
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You're mixing pieces from believers and non-believers. You are unimpressed because you dont believe the whole picture of believers. If you believed the whole thing then you would be impressed and understand.

Since this chaos proves there is no God, then what do you say it does prove exists?
 
#215
#215
rjd970 said:
Maybe, maybe not. But clearly, there are better ways. You assume his way is best because he is perfect by definition, so everything flowing down from that must be perfect.

Here in the rational world, we look at the evidence first and then draw conclusions about what is behind it all.

Clearly, if this is the work of a supreme creator, I am unimpressed. This wouldn't even pass the mustard for a bad office temp.
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You are unimpressed with the Universe, man you are really hard to impress. LOL
 
#216
#216
bamasucks76 said:
You're mixing pieces from believers and non-believers. You are unimpressed because you dont believe the whole picture of believers. If you believed the whole thing then you would be impressed and understand.

Since this chaos proves there is no God, then what do you say it does prove exists?
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In other words, Droski, if you knew you would know, get it. But since you don't know, you can't know.
 
#218
#218
jerryvol44 said:
Really, that is really astounding, you don't believe the baby is alive? Don't you know that when a baby is dead it no longer continues to develop.
In order to grow an organism has to be alive.
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You read it wrong, I was asking pj if he thought the bably is alive.
 
#220
#220
bamasucks76 said:
You're mixing pieces from believers and non-believers. You are unimpressed because you dont believe the whole picture of believers. If you believed the whole thing then you would be impressed and understand.
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Thanks for clearing that up.

I am unimpressed because everybody should be. A 99% failure rate isn't exactly something to write home about. It is, however, impressive evidence of randomness at work here.

bamasucks76 said:
Since this chaos proves there is no God, then what do you say it does prove exists?
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I don't know. And neither do you. I think it is pretty conclusive, however, that this isn't the work of a prayer answering, miracle-reaking God of everyday conversation.
 
#221
#221
therealUT said:
Insert any word you want for "abortion".

His view that he will seek divine counsel when he is faced with a decision, yet in the meantime act to legally limit the freedoms of others to potentially seek divine counsel is self-righteous, arrogant, and hypocritical.
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Should it be illegle for someone to kill you? I have to assume based upon you oh so rational arguments that you would not want protection that you would deny to the unborn. I'm sure you would not want to be self-righteous arrogant and hypocritical.
 
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#224
#224
droski said:
we kill lots of things the size of a fetus that are alive. don't you think the debate is when it becomes human?
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No that doesn't work either. It is obviously human from conception. If not it would grow into what ever it is say a dog or a cat or an eggplant. The only real question is when does a human beings right to life liberty and the pursuit etc become protected by the law. I believe at conception others think differently. I consider abortion murder.
 
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