Abortions Rights Win (Again)

[hog88]

Show me established law that allows states to criminally charge residents for legal activity occuring other states.

There's not so again, what are you bitching about?

 

[McDad]

Show me established law that allows states to criminally charge residents for legal activity occuring other states.

Are you dense? I haven't stated states can or should. I am not advocating for states to make such laws. I am against restrictions on civil rights.

May I suggest you ask questions to seek an understanding of my position rather than connect dots which do not exist?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Very few issues are unnuanced

It’s simple. Should a woman be able to have an abortion at ANY point in the pregnancy for ANY reason she chooses?

 

[BeardedVol]

Are you dense? I haven't stated states can or should. I am not advocating for states to make such laws. I am against restrictions on civil rights.

May I suggest you ask questions to seek an understanding of my position rather than connect dots which do not exist?

Lol, I listed 3 examples of states attempting to do just that, in response to the overturning of Roe v Wade.

Which is why the feds will and should get involved.

Freedom of movement is a fundamental right that cannot be infringed upon by the states.

 

[hog88]

Lol, I listed 3 examples of states attempting to do just that, in response to the overturning of Roe v Wade.

Which is why the feds will and should get involved.

Freedom of movement is a fundamental right that cannot be infringed upon by the states.

If a state passes such a law and that is a big if, it won't survive the first court challenge so no federal legislation is needed.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?

 

[volgr]

Full bodily autonomy for every legal adult in America. Full stop.

Nice slight of hand, using "adult". That way the fetus has no bodily autonomy.

How about the adult act like a mature member of society and not murder their baby? Too much to expect, for a mature adult to take responsibility for their actions. You cant have freedom without responsibility and today Americans have way too much unearned freedom.

 

[McDad]

Lol, I listed 3 examples of states attempting to do just that, in response to the overturning of Roe v Wade.

Which is why the feds will and should get involved.

Freedom of movement is a fundamental right that cannot be infringed upon by the states.

Ok.

Congratulations???

 

[hndog609]

Lol, I listed 3 examples of states attempting to do just that, in response to the overturning of Roe v Wade.

Which is why the feds will and should get involved.

Freedom of movement is a fundamental right that cannot be infringed upon by the states.

Yeah, I had this to say about such laws being brought up earlier in the thread.

I suppose I could try to have a law passed that requires Margot Robbie to give me a lap dance once a week. I think the likelihood of standing up to legal scrutiny would be about the same as what you cited.

 

[McDad]

Yeah, I had this to say about such laws being brought up earlier in the thread.

The state laws we are discussing are really bad. The temerity of state politicians thinking they can punish someone legally doing something outside of the state's jurisdiction is tyranny.

Does anyone know how a state would track someone going to another state to have an abortion? It seems to me it would be incredibly easy to have an abortion in another state without anyone possibly knowing.

 

[85SugarVol]

But not for children?

Children are not legal adults. So no.

There are legal adults in this country that truly feel at odds with their left foot. Truly feel out of place with it, that it is ‘wrong’ that it is there, and that they would be happier if it were not there.

If you are a legal adult, and can source the procedure, I will 100% support your right to remove your left foot.

I absolutely will not support a 14 year old’s “decision” to remove their left foot.

 

[85SugarVol]

Nice slight of hand, using "adult". That way the fetus has no bodily autonomy.

How about the adult act like a mature member of society and not murder their baby? Too much to expect, for a mature adult to take responsibility for their actions. You cant have freedom without responsibility and today Americans have way too much unearned freedom.

Nope. Not the point I was making.

But are you saying a fetus has bodily “autonomy”?

 

[hog88]

The state laws we are discussing are really bad. The temerity of state politicians thinking they can punish someone legally doing something outside of the state's jurisdiction is tyranny.

Does anyone know how a state would track someone going to another state to have an abortion? It seems to me it would be incredibly easy to have an abortion in another state without anyone possibly knowing.

I've heard (no personal experience what-so-ever) TN has a hard time collecting sales tax on purchases made out of state. How would they track abortions?

 

[McDad]

Children are not legal adults. So no.

There are legal adults in this country that truly feel at odds with their left foot. Truly feel out of place with it, that it is ‘wrong’ that it is there, and that they would be happier if it were not there.

If you are a legal adult, and can source the procedure, I will 100% support your right to remove your left foot.

I absolutely will not support a 14 year old’s “decision” to remove their left foot.

The essence of a free society is people with full expression of rights are able to make decisions (whether I like it or not) about themselves. If they were only allowed to do what I supported, it isn't a free society. Likewise, if I could only do what they supported, it isn't free.

Children and others with restricted rights can make decisions but those decisions have to be approved by their guardian or authority.

 

[McDad]

I've heard (no personal experience what-so-ever) TN has a hard time collecting sales tax on purchases made out of state. How would they track abortions?

I thought of 2 possibilites. One would be apps on cell phones which track locations. That info is not private (even if privacy is assured). So a state agency could conceivably get their hands on the data. Easy to defeat by simply leaving your phone in your hotel room, car, or turning it off.
The other is the facility will ask for ID. But a health care office has two layers of protections for privacy...HIPAA and pt confidentiality. Nothing to defeat since safeguards exist.

I don't know how a state could track, tbh.

 

[volgr]

Nope. Not the point I was making.

But are you saying a fetus has bodily “autonomy”?

I am saying, killing a fetus is murder. It was given the divine spark of life by our Creator.

 

[McDad]

I've heard (no personal experience what-so-ever) TN has a hard time collecting sales tax on purchases made out of state. How would they track abortions?

Just thought of a third, modern cars have gps and telemetrics which track location. Not a chance that info is protected. A state can easily obtain that data. Easy to defeat with ride services, though.

 

[hog88]

I thought of 2 possibilites. One would be apps on cell phones which track locations. That info is not private (even if privacy is assured). So a state agency could conceivably get their hands on the data. Easy to defeat by simply leaving your phone in your hotel room, car, or turning it off.
The other is the facility will ask for ID. But a health care office has two layers of protections for privacy...HIPAA and pt confidentiality. Nothing to defeat since safeguards exist.

I don't know how a state could track, tbh.

A Karen or Ken snitching would be about the only way. But then the state would have to subpoena records from the provider and as you mentioned they would have to get around HIPPA plus I can't imagine the state where the provider is located honoring the subpoena.

 

[hog88]

Just thought of a third, modern cars have gps and telemetrics which track location. Not a chance that info is protected. A state can easily obtain that data. Easy to defeat with ride services, though.

Still would have to prove an abortion and not a miscarriage took place.

 

[McDad]

A Karen or Ken snitching would be about the only way. But then the state would have to subpoena records from the provider and as you mentioned they would have to get around HIPPA plus I can't imagine the state where the provider is located honoring the subpoena.

Karen or Ken would have to know the person is pregnant and they are seeking an abortion out of state, though, right?

If a gal can't keep her legs shut, she should keep her mouth shut....Now there's a statement which should liven up the discussion by 10,000%

 

[volfanhill]

Karen or Ken would have to know the person is pregnant and they are seeking an abortion out of state, though, right?

If a gal can't keep her legs shut, she should keep her mouth shut....Now there's a statement which should liven up the discussion by 10,000%

Lol

 

[hndog609]

The state laws we are discussing are really bad. The temerity of state politicians thinking they can punish someone legally doing something outside of the state's jurisdiction is tyranny.

Does anyone know how a state would track someone going to another state to have an abortion? It seems to me it would be incredibly easy to have an abortion in another state without anyone possibly knowing.

I'm speculating that even the people behind such laws know there's no real way make that work. It does however give them the ability to claim they're all in on the fight.*

*Mind you I'm not saying they are necessarily pandering. If they really believe in the cause one would expect them to do what they can for that cause. I just find it difficult to believe even they think it would hold up under legal scrutiny.

 

[hndog609]

Karen or Ken would have to know the person is pregnant and they are seeking an abortion out of state, though, right?

If a gal can't keep her legs shut, she should keep her mouth shut....Now there's a statement which should liven up the discussion by 10,000%

 

[hog88]

I'm speculating that even the people behind such laws know there's no real way make that work. It does however give them the ability to claim they're all in on the fight.*

*Mind you I'm not saying they are necessarily pandering. If they really believe in the cause one would expect them to do what they can for that cause. I just find it difficult to believe even they think it would hold up under legal scrutiny.

It's a 100% pandering, get's their base and the mouth-breathing opposition all riled up.

 

[hndog609]

It's a 100% pandering, get's their base and the mouth-breathing opposition all riled up.

I qualified that part of the observation but yeah...there's absolutely room for pandering.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

It’s simple. Should a woman be able to have an abortion at ANY point in the pregnancy for ANY reason she chooses?

No