SayUWantAreVOLution
Well-Known Member
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- Oct 5, 2019
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You: profit=best healthcare in the world
Me: profit= prevents proper healthcare
You: we’re the same as everyone else
Me:
I have a friend who had to have an abortion to save her life...she had epilepsy and birth would have killed her and possibly the baby...even still she struggled...and now even today she regrets it..tells me often she would have traded her life for child.Does that make my opinion valid as a white male with a penis?Not what I'm implying. I was just curious if anyone doing so had actually been faced with this very personal decision.
You mentioned the 12-16 week timeframe a few times...why that timeframe as opposed to a hearteat law...if the fetus has heart beat then no abortion...cuz each pregnancy will develop differently. Just curiousI think it only seems wild because of how extreme things are/were here for the last few decades.
Anywhere 12-16 I consider very reasonable.
I thought we had dispensed with the old "can't legislate morality" saw a long time ago.I’m not a republican….but I morally oppose abortion for myself and my family. I don’t believe you can legislate morality. Realistically people are going to get abortions legally or otherwise. Safety for the overall population says that it should be legal. I’ll worry about myself before G-d and allow everyone else to do the same.
Beyond that it’s up to the people of each state to decide.
I have a friend who had to have an abortion to save her life...she had epilepsy and birth would have killed her and possibly the baby...even still she struggled...and now even today she regrets it..tells me often she would have traded her life for child.Does that make my opinion valid as a white male with a penis?
No I mean there is no objective morality. You have yours and I have mine. If we search it out together then I’m sure we can find conflicts. So legislating my morals is often to oppress yours.I thought we had dispensed with the old "can't legislate morality" saw a long time ago.
Every law passed is based upon someone's idea of morality. Every one, from the most banal to the most significant.
If you mean that some people disregard laws...not exactly a new revelation. There would be zero crime if laws were universally obeyed.
If you mean that laws don't affect a societal attitudes over time, both common sense and hard research demonstrate that view to be demonstrably false.
People move away from faith, bc the institutions of faith, are despicableI dont have a good answer.....the best solution is altruism..people doing so because they are helping people...but people are inherently selfish...and our society has decayed even more so as people are move away from faith and morality.
True that....but more have moved away from faith period...you can still be faithful to your religion without an institution behind it...but it does hold more effect when an entire community embarrasses the same beliefs..they hold one another accountable.....People move away from faith, bc the institutions of faith, are despicable
If there is no objective morality, then how can we have "the rule of law?" Upon what are laws based? Whims of the ruling elite? Majority rule? Might makes right?No I mean there is no objective morality. You have yours and I have mine. If we search it out together then I’m sure we can find conflicts. So legislating my morals is often to oppress yours.
I believe life begins at conception and abortion if ending a life. If you believe it begins at birth then it’s not. I don’t get to impose my moral code on to you regardless of how obvious I believe it to be.
Each state should decide for itself with the vote of it’s people
Most laws now were based on a Christian moral code of our founding fathers...what we are experiencing now is the lack of morality in society. And laws are now ignored and that encourages those with no moral code..what do you propose as a solution?If there is no objective morality, then how can we have "the rule of law?" Upon what are laws based? Whims of the ruling elite? Majority rule? Might makes right?
I may believe that I have the right to take one of your 3 cars so that we both have two. Equality, right? But we can't agree, so one of our views has to be imposed upon the other.
"Objective" morality doesn't mean unanymity of opinions.
Right back at ya with the straw man. So I’ll pose a simple question. If (for example) United Health Group boosts profits from 4 Billion annually to 18 Billion annually by denying the people they cover diagnostic tests, medications, supplies, equipment, treatment, etc. recommended by their most trusted physicians/providers, who does that benefit?He didn’t say we are the same. Nice strawman though. His point is simple:
Cost determines care in all countries. There’s not a single country where everyone gets the best quality of care. That’s not a thing.
Yet the profit motive in this country has provided us objectively better care when you view healthcare based on actual outcomes.
Right back at ya with the straw man. So I’ll pose a simple question. If (for example) United Health Group boosts profits from 4 Billion annually to 18 Billion annually by denying the people they cover diagnostic tests, medications, supplies, equipment, treatment, etc. recommended by their most trusted physicians/providers, who does that benefit?
There are still plenty of good people out there that have compassion and a good moral compass, but unfortunately our society rewards those without those qualities (who are willing to lie, cheat, and steal) with unfathomable wealth and power.I dont have a good answer.....the best solution is altruism..people doing so because they are helping people...but people are inherently selfish...and our society has decayed even more so as people are move away from faith and morality.
Naw man, answer my simple question first, who benefits?Let’s pretend what you’re saying is correct, if it’s possible to make 18 billion a year denying people care, couldn’t you make 1 billion by providing quality care or provide even better care as a non profit?
And non profit insurance does exist in this country, right?