Abortions Rights Win (Again)

[turbovol]

You men worry about your lives and let women take care of themselves and make their own health and reproduction decisions.
They've made it quite clear that they won't have a bunch of middle-aged male crazies telling them how to live their lives.

 

[volgr]

Republicans need to pull back on social issues and concentrate on fiscal issues, like the deficit. One social issue they can still pound home is trans treatments on kids. Let's protect our kids

It is only a matter of time before they lose that social issue too, like they did gay marriage or abortion. Media drives social issues by programming and conditioning the public and the vast majority of media is absolutely not conservative on social values.

 

[volgr]

But you think a 13/14 year-old girl should be forced to have her criminal/rapist stepfather's baby? Uh....no. Never. Most Americans are on
my side--and her side. Sorry about that.

You are referencing a very rare occurrence. Lets deal with the vast majority of abortion.

 

[hog88]

You men worry about your lives and let women take care of themselves and make their own health and reproduction decisions.
They've made it quite clear that they won't have a bunch of middle-aged male crazies telling them how to live their lives.

Apparently they do want old white men telling them how to live their lives since the majority of women voters voted for Biden. Or does being forced to get a vaccine not count as making a personal health decision?

 

[PEPPERJAX]

You men worry about your lives and let women take care of themselves and make their own health and reproduction decisions.
They've made it quite clear that they won't have a bunch of middle-aged male crazies telling them how to live their lives.

Will do, don't worry. Now promise the rest of us that you and your boyfriend/girlfriend won't procreate or adopt.

Thanks buddy!

 

[Godfatha]

Apparently they do want old white men telling them how to live their lives since the majority of women voters voted for Biden. Or does being forced to get a vaccine not count as making a personal health decision?

 

[hndog609]

I get that. We already did in the 14th.

The job of the Feds is to provide the bedrock, basic, absolute lowest form of safety. Life and death is pretty much bedrock, right?

I said at the very start of this: like slavery, this is going to be a major problem in America.

You can't have "equal protection under the law" if something or someone IS HUMAN and IS ALIVE in one state and is a group of cells in the other. If a group of cells in America can be killed because "they aren't old enough to have protection as a human in this state yet, but they are one state over"......... the Feds need to decide what a human is in America because that's bedrock to defending the rights of humans.

We did this in the 14th. It's going to be trouble until we do it again.

Unless and until it's accepted that a fetus is a "person" to the point it can effectively be incorporated under Federal jurisprudence the across state lines argument doesn't work. In fact as we sit here now there are a BUNCH of laws that vary greatly from state to state.

The upshot is your insistence that "life and death" is "bedrock" doesn't get where you want to go if the definition of "life" isn't agreed upon...and at this point it very much isn't. That isn't for you (or me or anyone for that matter) to contest...it's a fact there is fierce division on the matter and it's a fact it's not currently under Federal jurisdiction to make the distinction. Thus it's a matter left to the states.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Unless and until it's accepted that a fetus is a "person" to the point it can effectively be incorporated under Federal jurisprudence the across state lines argument doesn't work. In fact as we sit here now there are a BUNCH of laws that vary greatly from state to state.

The upshot is your insistence that "life and death" is "bedrock" doesn't get where you want to go if the definition of "life" isn't agreed upon...and at this point it very much isn't. That isn't for you (or me or anyone for that matter) to contest...it's a fact there is fierce division on the matter and it's a fact it's not currently under Federal jurisdiction to make the distinction. Thus it's a matter left to the states.

It's COMPLETELY disingenuous to say "you don't want government to meddle in people's lives" then turn around and say "it's up to the states" as if that's not government.

You need to grow a pair. If you REALLY don't want government to have a say, the state should stay out of it also because it's really a medical decision, right?

If the fetus has rights at the state level, it has rights at the federal level.

Grow a pair and admit that.

 

[volfanhill]

It's COMPLETELY disingenuous to say "you don't want government to meddle in people's lives" then turn around and say "it's up to the states" as if that's not government.

You need to grow a pair. If you REALLY don't want government to have a say, the state should stay out of it also because it's really a medical decision, right?

If the fetus has rights at the state level, it has rights at the federal level.

Grow a pair and admit that.

You need a civics class

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You need a civics class

You need to grow a pair too.

If it's not okay to kill someone at the state level, it's not okay to kill them at the federal level.

If it is, educate me as to why. If a a fetus HAS rights in America, it has rights like even a dog which you can't just legally kill for no good reason.

You guys need to stand up or sit down.

 

[volfanhill]

You need to grow a pair too.

If it's not okay to kill someone at the state level, it's not okay to kill them at the federal level.

If it is, educate me as to why. If a a fetus HAS rights in America, it has rights like even a dog which you can't just legally kill for no good reason.

You guys need to stand up or sit down.

You have had this explained to you. I am not capable of making you comprehend something that has been already explained. Quite well, I might add, by others.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You have had this explained to you. I am not capable of making you comprehend something that has been already explained. Quite well, I might add, by others.

So "leaving it to the states" isn't having government overreach and "decide what life is and isn't" but having the Feds involved is "government overreach" and they "can't decide what life is and isn't?"

This is your argument: I think the states can decide if something is alive and protected in their state, but the next state can decide it's not alive and not protected in their state.

As I said, that BS didn't work with slavery and we fixed it with the 14th. Now you guys want to unfix it again and say "the states should decide individually who is a person and who isn't."

 

[hog88]

You need to grow a pair too.

If it's not okay to kill someone at the state level, it's not okay to kill them at the federal level.

If it is, educate me as to why. If a a fetus HAS rights in America, it has rights like even a dog which you can't just legally kill for no good reason.

You guys need to stand up or sit down.

Let me get this straight, you want us to grow a pair and beg the federal government to take more power?

 

[Noni]

It boils down to: if you don’t want to have an abortion, don’t have an abortion… but don’t try to legislate your beliefs onto everyone else who clearly don’t see it the same way. This is obviously how the majority of Americans feel.

Thank you.

 

[865er]

So is it safe to say that you are a fan of this album?

More of an Infant Annihilator fan myself.

 

[Volfan8282]

It boils down to: if you don’t want to have an abortion, don’t have an abortion… but don’t try to legislate your beliefs onto everyone else who clearly don’t see it the same way. This is obviously how the majority of Americans feel.

This is taking the central question of the debate out of the equation.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Let me get this straight, you want us to grow a pair and beg the federal government to take more power?

I want you to grow a pair and stand up for the fetus which can't take care of its rights in America.

NOWHERE in America should an innocent live human be deprived of the same right to life and same protections under the law as any other human.

The Feds couldn't just "punt" slavery without causing a national disaster. Trying to "punt" abortion and say "you can kill a fetus in CA because that's what they want" but "you can't in TN because that's what they want" is every bit of replaying the mid-1800s.

I'm not sure what makes it seem okay to you that a fetus should have the right not to be killed in one state but lose that right at the state line. And you say my America is terrifying?

 

[hog88]

I want you to grow a pair and stand up for the fetus which can't take care of its rights in America.

NOWHERE in America should an innocent live human be deprived of the same right to life and same protections under the law as any other human.

The Feds couldn't just "punt" slavery without causing a national disaster. Trying to "punt" abortion and say "you can kill a fetus in CA because that's what they want" but "you can't in TN because that's what they want" is every bit of replaying the mid-1800s.

I'm not sure what makes it seem okay to you that a fetus should have the right not to be killed in one state but lose that right at the state line. And you say my America is terrifying?

Then grow a pair and work on getting a constitutional amendment passed and ratified.

 

[85SugarVol]

You need to grow a pair too.

If it's not okay to kill someone at the state level, it's not okay to kill them at the federal level.

If it is, educate me as to why. If a a fetus HAS rights in America, it has rights like even a dog which you can't just legally kill for no good reason.

You guys need to stand up or sit down.

 

[85SugarVol]

Let me get this straight, you want us to grow a pair and beg the federal government to take more power?

Grow a pair, and bend the knee.

 

[hndog609]

It's COMPLETELY disingenuous to say "you don't want government to meddle in people's lives" then turn around and say "it's up to the states" as if that's not government.

You need to grow a pair. If you REALLY don't want government to have a say, the state should stay out of it also because it's really a medical decision, right?

If the fetus has rights at the state level, it has rights at the federal level.

Grow a pair and admit that.

Y'know, I thought I'd been doing a decent job of being both courteous and clear with our discussion to that point. I've made no personal statements on the matter whatsoever so you can shove your "disingenuous" accusation. What I've been trying to explain is what you assert doesn't square with how the law works. I would be making very similar observations to anyone that was asking about demanding abortion be Federally protected. Your emotional investment (as understandable as it might be given the subject matter) has exceeded your ability (or willingness) to gasp how the system in place actually operates. Have problems with that system? Fair enough...but don't get huffy when people take the time to try and lay it for you.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Then grow a pair and work on getting a constitutional amendment passed and ratified.

I quoted the 14th which DID fix the problem.

You guys were crowing that it "should be a state decision" which is entirely wrong. It's already decided: states can't pass laws that deprive human rights in America.

A fetus is human or if not, what is it? A cat? An amoeba? A mushroom?

If it's not human, the state AND Feds need to butt out. But what else could it be?

I abhor this manmade "gender fluid" crap. Your DNA is right there. You might not like it, you might be gay, but you aren't both. You are what your DNA says you are.

Now we're heading toward "human fluid." It's alive, it's got human DNA, but it's not quite got basic human rights not to be killed yet.

Pure BS.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

More of an Infant Annihilator fan myself.

That has to be a drum machine.

 

[hog88]

Grow a pair, and bend the knee.

Too many kicks to the knee, they just don’t bend well anymore.