Abortions Rights Win (Again)

#101
#101
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
If the state makes a law that killing children is legal, where is the Federal government offering protection under the 14th for that child?

The Federal government cannot sit on the sidelines and allow death and mutilation of children in some states while not in another. Humans in America have basic protections in ALL STATES per the 14th.
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Wrong. It's protection FROM THE STATE. Not protection from the parents.
 
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#102
#102
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Nice, non answer. I can see you're not up to stepping up.

You know the fetus is alive and you know it's human and you know it's in America, but you lack the balls to acknowledge this.

If all those are true, the state must protect the human like any other innocent human per the Federal government in the 14th Amendment. They cannot just kill humans.
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The fundamental flaw in this approach is YOU are 100% convinced of X being a fact. You ignore (or dismiss) that there are other (and lots) of people that don't believe X to be a fact.

So let's assume everyone here believes what you believe. What you (we) need to do to have any actual say in the matter is have "our" beliefs codified into an enforceable law to prohibit what we have agreed on is murder. That's what you want.

(You still hanging in here? If you don't understand the above you won't understand the rest)

It absolutely, positively, IS NOT universally accepted what "we" believe is true. This means any law is going to have to be reconciled between opposing points of view which means it's going to court. Now it goes all the way to the Supreme Court and as I type this the reconciling between these opposing points DOES NOT CURRENTLY FALL UNDER FEDERAL (CONSTITUTIONAL) JURISDICTION.

This leaves us with two options; the first is to have our beliefs codified under our state's laws or, failing that, get something put into the Constitution that allows the questions to be addressed Federally and go to work there.
 
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#103
#103
hog88 said:
No, I do not believe a child can be male in one state and female in another state. I believe states have the power to make their own decisions in regards to recognizing gender.
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So if someone has a CA state ID saying Female and gets arrested in FL for using the Female restroom while being biologically male, though they have an ID stating they are female....... isn't that an issue between the states the Feds must sort out?

CA says female and issues a LEGAL ID IN AMERICA that the person is female. FL doesn't care and has a law that says, "you're male, regardless of what your LEGAL AMERICAN ID says."

It's a Federal issue now, isn't it?
 
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#105
#105
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
So if someone has a CA state ID saying Female and gets arrested in FL for using the Female restroom while being biologically male, though they have an ID stating they are female....... isn't that an issue between the states the Feds must sort out?

CA says female and issues a LEGAL ID IN AMERICA that the person is female. FL doesn't care and has a law that says, "you're male, regardless of what your LEGAL AMERICAN ID says."

It's a Federal issue now, isn't it?
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No, it's not an issue between states that the feds must sort out. I have a TN ID saying that I am licensed to carry a gun but in NY that license is worthless.
 
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#107
#107
hndog609 said:
The fundamental flaw in this approach is YOU are 100% convinced of X being a fact. You ignore (or dismiss) that there are other (and lots) of people that don't believe X to be a fact.

So let's assume everyone here believes what you believe. What you (we) need to do to have any actual say in the matter is have "our" beliefs codified into an enforceable law to prohibit what we have agreed on is murder. That's what you want.

(You still hanging in here? If you don't understand the above you won't understand the rest)

It absolutely, positively, IS NOT universally accepted what "we" believe is true. This means any law is going to have to be reconciled between opposing points of view which means it's going to court. Now it goes all the way to the Supreme Court and as I type this the reconciling between these opposing points DOES NOT CURRENTLY FALL UNDER FEDERAL (CONSTITUTIONAL) JURISDICTION.

This leaves us with two options; the first is to have our beliefs codified under our state's laws or, failing that, get something put into the Constitution that allows the questions to be addressed Federally and go to work there.
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I get that. We already did in the 14th.

The job of the Feds is to provide the bedrock, basic, absolute lowest form of safety. Life and death is pretty much bedrock, right?

I said at the very start of this: like slavery, this is going to be a major problem in America.

You can't have "equal protection under the law" if something or someone IS HUMAN and IS ALIVE in one state and is a group of cells in the other. If a group of cells in America can be killed because "they aren't old enough to have protection as a human in this state yet, but they are one state over"......... the Feds need to decide what a human is in America because that's bedrock to defending the rights of humans.

We did this in the 14th. It's going to be trouble until we do it again.
 
#108
#108
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I get that. We already did in the 14th.

The job of the Feds is to provide the bedrock, basic, absolute lowest form of safety. Life and death is pretty much bedrock, right?

I said at the very start of this: like slavery, this is going to be a major problem in America.

You can't have "equal protection under the law" if something or someone IS HUMAN and IS ALIVE in one state and is a group of cells in the other. If a group of cells in America can be killed because "they aren't old enough to have protection as a human in this state yet, but they are one state over"......... the Feds need to decide what a human is in America because that's bedrock to defending the rights of humans.

We did this in the 14th. It's going to be trouble until we do it again.
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Incorrect.
 
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#109
#109
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I get that. We already did in the 14th.

The job of the Feds is to provide the bedrock, basic, absolute lowest form of safety. Life and death is pretty much bedrock, right?

I said at the very start of this: like slavery, this is going to be a major problem in America.

You can't have "equal protection under the law" if something or someone IS HUMAN and IS ALIVE in one state and is a group of cells in the other. If a group of cells in America can be killed because "they aren't old enough to have protection as a human in this state yet, but they are one state over"......... the Feds need to decide what a human is in America because that's bedrock to defending the rights of humans.

We did this in the 14th. It's going to be trouble until we do it again.
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Do you really want the fed to starting meddling with this? Haven't they Fckd up enough already?
 
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#110
#110
hog88 said:
Incorrect.
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What do you think this means?

"No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
 
#111
#111
hog88 said:
I'm a conservative and believe in small federal government until it comes to a topic I want the federal government to intervene in...

These guys kill me.
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Wait till he hears Turbo’s ideas for “protecting the sanctity and safety of Americans”

He’ll be screaming for mercy.
 
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#112
#112
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
What do you think this means?

"No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
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Yep. And how does this apply to your argument?
 
#114
#114
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
You don't think abortion denies someone of life?

Again, at some point, as a nation, we're going to need to decide if a fetus IS alive, IS a human, and IS entitled to protection under the 14th.
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Yes, I do believe it denies someone of life.

You would have an argument using the 14th if the state was forcing women to have abortions but no state is doing that so you have no argument.
 
#115
#115
hog88 said:
Yes, I do believe it denies someone of life.

You would have an argument using the 14th if the state was forcing women to have abortions but no state is doing that so you have no argument.
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I'm not sure that just because you're a woman you get the right to kill another American.

As I said, look at it from the view of the fetus.

Am I alive? Yes
Am I a human? Yes
What rights does the 14th Amendment give to live humans in America? None......if you are a fetus? Wait. What about the above.
 
#116
#116
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I'm not sure that just because you're a woman you get the right to kill another American.

As I said, look at it from the view of the fetus.

Am I alive? Yes
Am I a human? Yes
What rights does the 14th Amendment give to live humans in America? None......if you are a fetus? Wait. What about the above.
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The 14th prevents the STATE from depriving you of life, liberty or property without due process.
 
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#117
#117
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I'm not sure that just because you're a woman you get the right to kill another American.

As I said, look at it from the view of the fetus.

Am I alive? Yes
Am I a human? Yes
What rights does the 14th Amendment give to live humans in America? None......if you are a fetus? Wait. What about the above.
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Eventually, you will probably need to go for a jog like Forrest Gump did many years ago to make a change. Some may even follow your lead on the Journey to D.C.
 
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#118
#118
Sea Ray said:
Just like gay marriage Republicans would be smart to drop abortion as an issue. It's a losing issue for them. Concentrate on fiscal responsibility, border security, immigration...
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When you lose on gay marriage and abortion is there really any reason to vote at that point? The Country is lost.

Disconnect from mainstream culture as much as possible and live your life as much as you can outside of the "system".
 
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#119
#119
hog88 said:
The 14th prevents the STATE from depriving you of life, liberty or property without due process.
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"No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens......"

So passing a law that a woman can terminate the life of another person doesn't abridge the immunities of the dead person?
 
#121
#121
volgr said:
When you lose on gay marriage and abortion is there really any reason to vote at that point? The Country is lost.

Disconnect from mainstream culture as much as possible and live your life as much as you can outside of the "system".
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The highlighted is truth. Very good points.
 
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#123
#123
volgr said:
When you lose on gay marriage and abortion is there really any reason to vote at that point? The Country is lost.

Disconnect from mainstream culture as much as possible and live your life as much as you can outside of the "system".
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Republicans need to pull back on social issues and concentrate on fiscal issues, like the deficit. One social issue they can still pound home is trans treatments on kids. Let's protect our kids
 
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#124
#124
Sea Ray said:
Republicans need to pull back on social issues and concentrate on fiscal issues, like the deficit. One social issue they can still pound home is trans treatments on kids. Let's protect our kids
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Kind of difficult to pullback on it when it is actually on the ballot
 
#125
#125
volgr said:
Only in leftist upside down world is it considered a danger to women to keep women from killing their babies. You are a troubled person.
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But you think a 13/14 year-old girl should be forced to have her criminal/rapist stepfather's baby? Uh....no. Never. Most Americans are on
my side--and her side. Sorry about that.
 
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