Ainge going off on Graham!

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#477
#477
emainvol said:
Not at all, but the past tends to be a pretty good indicator of the future, and I have a hard time thinking a guy who got his brains beat in by the worst head coach in Tennessee is the guy that will right the ship.
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An appeal to absurdity is not a logical argument. Your ability to imagine something is not indicative of future results.

emainvol said:
I just like to use colorful and strong language in conveying that doubt.
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Obviously.
 
#479
#479
emainvol said:
I don't know him, but I wanted to spice things up. It appears to have worked
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Oh, by all means. If by "spice things up" you mean, "come across as a keyboard jockey that needs attention", then kudos.

For the record, I just enjoy dissecting irrational, drivel. Nothing "spiced" on this end. Please, by all means, carry on.
 
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#480
#480
Orange_Crush said:
An appeal to absurdity is not a logical argument. Your ability to imagine something is not indicative of future results.



Obviously.
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Oh give me a break, you know exactly what I'm saying. It is wholly logical to think a guy will fail based on past results. That said, thank you for a reply that isn't the dumb **** "you are a failure because you think about a football team is going to be bad" argument that Sparty wanted to employ.
 
#481
#481
emainvol said:
Not at all, but the past tends to be a pretty good indicator of the future, and I have a hard time thinking a guy who got his brains beat in by the worst head coach in Tennessee history is the guy that will right the ship. I just like to use colorful and strong language in conveying that doubt.
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You have to admit that was one of if not the best game in Dooley's tenure. Pead almost went for 200 and it was tight for awhile. But, yeah Butch lost that game.
 
#482
#482
Orange_Crush said:
Oh, by all means. If by "spice things up" you mean, "come across as a keyboard jockey that needs attention", then kudos.

For the record, I just enjoy dissecting irrational, drivel. Nothing "spiced" on this end. Please, by all means, carry on.
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So you like to argue, great, me too. Deal with it.
 
#483
#483
emainvol said:
What the hell do you think he would be doing here? Oh yeah, I forgot where Dooley left him a team full of first round talent that challenged for the national championship last year and fell just a little bit short. Must have confused myself when I changed the subject from Butch Jones' coaching history to Butch Jones' coaching history.
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What?? Dude, try to stay focused. We were talking about his previous success and comparing it to Kelly. You were losing the argument, as usual, so you changed the subject about what programs he has rebuilt. What? I'm done, it's useless trying to talk facts with you. You're too hellbent on saying how much he has sucked, how much he sucks right now and how much he will suck.....
 
#484
#484
tim said:
You have to admit that was one of if not the best game in Dooley's tenure. Pead almost went for 200 and it was tight for awhile. But, yeah Butch lost that game.
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Maybe, the point remains, Dooley pretty much made Jones his ***** in that game.
 
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#485
#485
emainvol said:
Oh give me a break, you know exactly what I'm saying. It is wholly logical to think a guy will fail based on past results. That said, thank you for a reply that isn't the dumb **** "you are a failure because you think about a football team is going to be bad" argument that Sparty wanted to employ.
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It is completely illogical to base your argument on an appeal to absurdity. You even framed the argument based on what you can't imagine.

For the record, someone else could easily project success for CBJ based on his historical success. He's won everywhere he's been.
 
#488
#488
KBVol said:
What?? Dude, try to stay focused. We were talking about his previous success and comparing it to Kelly. You were losing the argument, as usual, so you changed the subject about what programs he has rebuilt. What? I'm done, it's useless trying to talk facts with you. You're too hellbent on saying how much he has sucked, how much he sucks right now and how much he will suck.....
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How would building or not building programs be a different discussion than previous success? If you wanted to outline Nick Saban's previous success, would you not, at some point in your argument, say something like "oh yeah, and he rebuilt LSU and Alabama after the guys before him tore them down." That's a example of his previous success and something Butch Jones will have to do in the future if he is going to be successful. If you don't think it's important, fine, but I certainly do.
 
#489
#489
Orange_Crush said:
It is completely illogical to base your argument on an appeal to absurdity. You even framed the argument based on what you can't imagine.

For the record, someone else could easily project success for CBJ based on his historical success. He's won everywhere he's been.
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No, I was explaining one of the various reasons I don't think he will succeed. You guys wanted examples, so I gave them and you argued semantics.
 
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#491
#491
emainvol said:
How would building or not building programs be a different discussion than previous success? If you wanted to outline Nick Saban's previous success, would you not, at some point in your argument, say something like "oh yeah, and he rebuilt LSU and Alabama after the guys before him tore them down." That's a example of his previous success and something Butch Jones will have to do in the future if he is going to be successful. If you don't think it's important, fine, but I certainly do.
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I'll ask again, are you proposing that nothing happens unless it's happened before?

In other words, Saban's first rebuild was... wait for it... his first rebuild. Kelly's first rebuild was his first...?

They were selected for those rebuilds due to their historical success. CBJ's previous success matches theirs very closely.
 
#492
#492
emainvol said:
No, I was explaining one of the various reasons I don't think he will succeed. You guys wanted examples, so I gave them and you argued semantics.
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You call it "semantics", I call it exposing the non-rational process you used to form the opinion...

Potato, potahto.
 
#493
#493
Orange_Crush said:
I'll ask again, are you proposing that nothing happens unless it's happened before?

In other words, Saban's first rebuild was... wait for it... his first rebuild. Kelly's first rebuild was his first...?

They were selected for those rebuilds due to their historical success. CBJ's previous success matches theirs very closely.
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No, I'm saying the past can indicate the future. Jones has never been in this position. Most coaches fail when put in this position, so, I happen to think Jones will do the same. History is on my side
 
#494
#494
emainvol said:
No, I'm saying the past can indicate the future. Jones has never been in this position.
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Lack of evidence is not an evidence of lack.

emainvol said:
Most coaches fail when put in this position, so, I happen to think Jones will do the same. History is on my side
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Please show me the statistics that bear this out. Otherwise, you're just waving your arms.

And to make it an appropriate sampling, please only include the statistics for coaches with an .800 winning percentage or better, who were given the opportunity of a rebuild. For the sake of our agreement, please indicate what will be considered a successful rebuild.

Edit: I'm sure it should be available quickly. You have the data already, since you know it well enough to reference it, right? Or were you making an argument on made-up facts?

Is history really on your side?
 
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#495
#495
Orange_Crush said:
Lack of evidence is not an evidence of lack.



Please show me the statistics that bear this out. Otherwise, you're just waving your arms.

And to make it an appropriate sampling, please only include the statistics for coaches with an .800 winning percentage or better, who were given the opportunity of a rebuild. For the sake of our agreement, please indicate what will be considered a successful rebuild.

Edit: I'm sure it should be available quickly. You have the data already, since you know it well enough to reference it, right? Or were you making an argument on made-up facts?

Is history really on your side?
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Alabama went through how many coaches? Ole Miss had sucked for years and through multiple coaches, MSU did the same, Dooley failed here, and I could go through this all day. Kentucky, Vandy, etc.

That's just the SEC
 
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#496
#496
emainvol said:
Alabama went through how many coaches? Ore Miss has sucked for years and through multiple coaches, MSU did the sane, Dooley failed here, and I could go through this all day. Kentucky, Vandy, etc.

That's just the SEC
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I didn't ask for anecdotal evidence (and you are ignoring the appropriate sample request). You used a statistical reference, so I'm asking for the statistics that you used to support the argument.

"Most" is a big word, and I believe it has an important bearing on the feasibility of UT's coming rebuild, as you obviously do also.

So, where are the stats for all coaches with an .800 or better previous winning percentage, who have attempted a rebuild. Let's see if "most" have failed.

(Should we define an agreeable definition for "most", or just use 51%?)
 
#497
#497
Eddie Vol Halen said:
I like Ainge, but I think Basilio's article on this is very informative.

Jay got a $50K raise; evidently the Cryptkeeper came back with some more money, but not equivalent (thanks Hart, Hambone, and Booger for everything you've done for Tennessee).

Moreover, Basilio talks about how important Graham was in holding the 2013 class together when Doolander and his staff, contrary to his TV rhetoric, quit recruiting.

Jay has handled this as professionally as possible. As Basilio says, the honeymoon for Butch is coming to an end.
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He hasn't had a honeymoon. He's been working from day one.
 
#498
#498
Orange_Crush said:
I didn't ask for anecdotal evidence. You used a statistical reference, so I'm asking for the statistics that you used to support the argument.

"Most" is a big word, and I believe it has an important bearing on the feasibility of UT's coming rebuild, as you obviously do also.

So, where are the stats for all coaches with an .800 or better previous winning percentage, who have attempted a rebuild. Let's see if "most" have failed.

(Should we define an agreeable definition for "most", or just use 51%?)
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I said most coaches. You gave me some arbitrary number and it certainly doesn't describe Jones' winning percentage. And in this case, we can say 51% but the number is going to be higher.

You can try to be difficult all you want to, the sheer volume of coaches fired because they couldn't get the job done is all the evidence I need
 
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