Air fresheners are illegal in Minnesota

#451
#451
zeppelin128 said:
Good grief. "I'm not a fan of abusive police, but please be abusive police force. Give them more "teeth". "
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I get what he is saying..... you don’t want an over the top police force but at the same time we have allowed some of these communities to turn into war zones..... what is the answer?
 
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#452
#452
I think you could give most of the police force in this country tasers instead of guns and save lots of lives and they do their jobs just the same.

I'm not saying all police officers of course, it should depend on the assignment or the expected encounters. Ironically warrant enforcement would probably 1 of the ones where guns are needed. But for most of the officers, they are peace officers and should be armed appropriately for that role.

might also help establish trust with the communities as right now it is (sadly) lacking
 
#453
#453
Tastylicks said:
I think you could give most of the police force in this country tasers instead of guns and save lots of lives and they do their jobs just the same.

I'm not saying all police officers of course, it should depend on the assignment or the expected encounters. Ironically warrant enforcement would probably 1 of the ones where guns are needed. But for most of the officers, they are peace officers and should be armed appropriately for that role.
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This is potentially your dumbest comment on this board. I don't even need to explain why.
 
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#456
#456
NorthDallas40 said:
No. You simply don’t grasp that a citizen making a poor NONLETHAL choice doesn’t warrant a LETHAL response by the police officer. You are not going to convince anybody here that killing the guy was justified.
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I know I'm behind here. I wouldn't call fleeing in a car "nonlethal" per se. Especially since it'll be at panicked high speed. But I don't think that's in play in this situation because the officer appears to have thought she had the taser and didn't. She's culpable for the negligence on that topic and I think that's where it ends. Is it murder? No. Was she trained well enough? Nope. This mistake should never happen in the field because the memory should be imbeded in training on the belt set up.
 
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#458
#458
Tastylicks said:
I think you could give most of the police force in this country tasers instead of guns and save lots of lives and they do their jobs just the same.

I'm not saying all police officers of course, it should depend on the assignment or the expected encounters. Ironically warrant enforcement would probably 1 of the ones where guns are needed. But for most of the officers, they are peace officers and should be armed appropriately for that role.

might also help establish trust with the communities as right now it is (sadly) lacking
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I understand the idea. Not sure if a study would agree because the remedy is to compartmentalize cops and their duties to specific situations which would increase the cost and decrease department effectiveness.
 
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#460
#460
utvols88 said:
I understand the idea. Not sure if a study would agree because the remedy is to compartmentalize cops and their duties to specific situations which would increase the cost and decrease department effectiveness.
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Division of labor is typically a cost-effective strategy, actually. Why wouldn't it be for cops? They already do it.
 
#461
#461
n_huffhines said:
You need to take a step outside the box sometimes. How could you possibly think with any certainty that all cops being armed is the best solution? How could you be dealing in such absolutes? Do you know something we don't know?
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If they aren't armed then they're a security guard. Tasers are not nearly as effective as everyone seems to think. They're also extremely short range. In what situation should cops not be armed in a country where everyone has a gun? Your law enforcement officers not even having equal standing to a random citizen is the solution? Which assignments and encounters don't need a gun? Please inform me which ones you can in good conscience send a cop out to without a weapon. Do you pay your security guard cops less than your armed cops? What's the standard? It's literally the dumbest suggestion I've ever seen on this board.
 
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#462
#462
lukeneyland said:
If he was wanted for murder or something heinous then it makes a difference but what is this information you are referencing?
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You're kidding right?

The fact that the officer fired a gun instead of taser *by accident*

It was a negligent discharge, so the fact that the officer did that would throw any need for an argument as to whether or not the person had it coming out the window.
 
#463
#463
n_huffhines said:
Division of labor is typically a cost-effective strategy, actually. Why wouldn't it be for cops? They already do it.
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Because specializing would mean response time increases unless you dramatically increase labor force. So either it becomes less efficient or you pay for more cops.

Example, an officer that is called to a domestic dispute needs a gun for obvious reasons. Those cops may need assistance from several others. Well if there are multiple situations that all need assistance, do you want your dispatch to place your plea for help on a waiting list? Do you want a window between 1 and 4 like Comcast? Traffic officers may just be sitting there twiddling their thumbs. Patrols might be twiddling their thumbs. It's not accounts receivables that can wait. It's people's emergencies and cops need to be crossed trained to handle various situations to be effective with timing without hiring double the cops
 
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#465
#465
Tastylicks said:
hey, there is a different way. Right now the way we do it is obviously not working
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Based on what? I realize we wont 0 unjust shootings. But I would guess the police to civilian interactions would number in the millions. So what percent are we sitting at on unjust shootings?

I say this realizing improvment is always a goal to aim for.
 
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#466
#466
utvols88 said:
Because specializing would mean response time increases unless you dramatically increase labor force. So either it becomes less efficient or you pay for more cops.

Example, an officer that is called to a domestic dispute needs a gun for obvious reasons. Those cops may need assistance from several others. Well if there are multiple situations that all need assistance, do you want your dispatch to place your plea for help on a waiting list? Do you want a window between 1 and 4 like Comcast? Traffic officers may just be sitting there twiddling their thumbs. Patrols might be twiddling their thumbs. It's not accounts receivables that can wait. It's people's emergencies and cops need to be crossed trained to handle various situations to be effective with timing without hiring double the cops
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It doesn't necessarily mean that. You can still train most/everybody to be responders. That doesn’t mean a meter maid needs to have a gun on her hip at all times.

If they are responding to a domestic call, they can get a gun out of the car, if they think the situation calls for it.
 
#467
#467
Ttucke11 said:
If they aren't armed then they're a security guard. Tasers are not nearly as effective as everyone seems to think. They're also extremely short range. In what situation should cops not be armed in a country where everyone has a gun? Your law enforcement officers not even having equal standing to a random citizen is the solution? Which assignments and encounters don't need a gun? Please inform me which ones you can in good conscience send a cop out to without a weapon. Do you pay your security guard cops less than your armed cops? What's the standard? It's literally the dumbest suggestion I've ever seen on this board.
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I just think about firefighters/EMTs, they do their jobs just fine without a weapon on their hip. Cops are at the same calls, that's like the majority of what they do

you also think about firefighters/EMTs they tailor their equipment for the nature of the call. They aren't bringing the big hoses for every call, they bring the narcan when its an overdose call, the water trucks when its a fire, etc. etc.

why can't cops do that? Leave the guns at home when you are responding to an accident, or someone is speeding/driving drunk. Get a call about an active shooter at the school (extremely rare), or a violent domestic disturbance with possible weapons (less rare), ok bring the guns...
--

Mostly I think about this to protect the officers. It is unsafe to put them in situations where weapons aren't needed with their weapons. Accidents happen (obviously) among other things
 
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#468
#468
Ttucke11 said:
If they aren't armed then they're a security guard. Tasers are not nearly as effective as everyone seems to think. They're also extremely short range. In what situation should cops not be armed in a country where everyone has a gun? Your law enforcement officers not even having equal standing to a random citizen is the solution? Which assignments and encounters don't need a gun? Please inform me which ones you can in good conscience send a cop out to without a weapon. Do you pay your security guard cops less than your armed cops? What's the standard? It's literally the dumbest suggestion I've ever seen on this board.
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This isn't an argument, it's just a label.

Can we agree that a meter maid doesn't need heat?
 
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#469
#469
n_huffhines said:
It doesn't necessarily mean that. You can still train most/everybody to be responders. That doesn’t mean a meter maid needs to have a gun on her hip at all times.

If they are responding to a domestic call, they can get a gun out of the car, if they think the situation calls for it.
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So you want all of them to have the potential to be armed given the situation but some situations you'd like to see the gun left in the vehicle? What situations that a non-metermaid encounters would you suggest the gun be left in the car?
 
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#470
#470
utvols88 said:
So you want all of them to have the potential to be armed given the situation but some situations you'd like to see the gun left in the vehicle? What situations that a non-metermaid encounters would you suggest the gun be left in the car?
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Well, the only time a cop has been in my house was to ask my Mom what she witnessed, and I'm pretty sure he didn't need a gun for that.

IDK what the right solution is, I'm just fighting against people who won't even consider an alternative. Seems extremely foolish.
 
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#471
#471
n_huffhines said:
It doesn't necessarily mean that. You can still train most/everybody to be responders. That doesn’t mean a meter maid needs to have a gun on her hip at all times.

If they are responding to a domestic call, they can get a gun out of the car, if they think the situation calls for it.
Click to expand...

So what happens when your noise complaint turns out to be an aggravated domestic? Just tell the lady getting her face smashed in, it'll be another 15 minutes I guess. I mean if your bar is meter maids, then sure. Anyone on patrol should have a gun. Period. Otherwise they're just a waste of time and resources. And you trust them to leave it in the car, or make a decision to carry it? Well I'm carrying it 100% of the time, just like I do in everyday life.
 
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#472
#472
Tastylicks said:
I just think about firefighters/EMTs, they do their jobs just fine without a weapon on their hip. Cops are at the same calls, that's like the majority of what they do

you also think about firefighters/EMTs they tailor their equipment for the nature of the call. They aren't bringing the big hoses for every call, they bring the narcan when its an overdose call, the water trucks when its a fire, etc. etc.

why can't cops do that? Leave the guns at home when you are responding to an accident, or someone is speeding/driving drunk. Get a call about an active shooter at the school (extremely rare), or a violent domestic disturbance with possible weapons (less rare), ok bring the guns...
--

Mostly I think about this to protect the officers. It is unsafe to put them in situations where weapons aren't needed with their weapons. Accidents happen (obviously) among other things
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They don't wait for a bat signal at home. The best you'll get is reachable in the car.
 
#473
#473
DinkinFlicka said:
You're kidding right?

The fact that the officer fired a gun instead of taser *by accident*

It was a negligent discharge, so the fact that the officer did that would throw any need for an argument as to whether or not the person had it coming out the window.
Click to expand...
didn’t know that at the time I wrote that
 
#474
#474
n_huffhines said:
Well, the only time a cop has been in my house was to ask my Mom what she witnessed, and I'm pretty sure he didn't need a gun for that.

IDK what the right solution is, I'm just fighting against people who won't even consider an alternative. Seems extremely foolish.
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What if the perp rolls up to influce your mom telling the cop something and he's sitting there with a tiny can of mace in a gun fight though? Should his gun be out of its holster? Absolutely not. I think better training on when to pull out the gun is needed and happens. The issue here is the officer yanked the wrong weapon but she would have still been on the list to have it on her person during this encounter so it doesn't quite solve this problem. I celebrate the ideas though. And sometimes discussion leads to a better idea. 👍
 
#475
#475
Ttucke11 said:
So what happens when your noise complaint turns out to be an aggravated domestic? Just tell the lady getting her face smashed in, it'll be another 15 minutes I guess. I mean if your bar is meter maids, then sure. Anyone on patrol should have a gun. Period. Otherwise they're just a waste of time and resources. And you trust them to leave it in the car, or make a decision to carry it? Well I'm carrying it 100% of the time, just like I do in everyday life.
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What makes you say this with any confidence? Where are you getting support for this idea? Is that how you see cops in the UK who don't carry?
 
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