'19 AL QB Taulia Tagovailoa

[Sleegro]

The only way they can give fall scholarships to those two non-recruited players that they're refering to as blueshirts is if they have room to do it under the current academic year's 25 signings limit. I think they're calling them blueshirts because they met the non-recruited requirement and couldn't guarantee them that they'd get a fall scholarship. It'll be interesting to see if they really get one.

That is the Director of Player Personnel for WVU saying it, not some reporter or MB poster. So I'm inclined to believe he knows the rules. Maybe that is the loophole though. You can use blueshirts to get to 25 players but not go over. That would explain how we did it. And the Deep Dive article you posted earlier even said they were trying to close the loopholes but they weren't completely shut. And even mentioned Tulane being able to back count and take 26 this year which I thought wasn't allowed anymore either.

 

[Tidal Surge]

No I understand you don't know or can't tell me how it's still being done and TN did it this year. So with your obvious self proclaimed, superior Bama intelligence can you tell me how it continues to happen??

I see people speculating and making assumptions about UT's, UGA's and WVU's numbers situations and how the players are being counted against the limits. I know the rules, how they work and what can and and cannot be done. I can't explain what other schools are doing because I don't know the true details of their numbers situations.

There were some on VN who insisted I didn't know the rules when I told them that all transfers count against signing, initial and total counter limits. I think most of them have since learned that I was correct.

 

[jasonvol18]

That is the Director of Player Personnel for WVU saying it, not some reporter or MB poster. So I'm inclined to believe he knows the rules. Maybe that is the loophole though. You can use blueshirts to get to 25 players but not go over. That would explain how we did it. And the Deep Dive article you posted earlier even said they were trying to close the loopholes but they weren't completely shut. And even mentioned Tulane being able to back count and take 26 this year which I thought wasn't allowed anymore either.

I just don't understand why you would have to use a blueshirt if you weren't at the 25 limit anyway. You wouldn't want to pull from the next class if you weren't at 25 in the current. I'm done trying to understand it, seems like nobody outside of university's know for sure. I prefer not having to use Blueshirt's. Eventually you have to get the books straight.

 

[Sleegro]

I see people making assumptions and speculations about UT's, UGA's and WVU's numbers situations and how the players are being counted against the limits. I know the rules, how they work and what can and and cannot be done. I can't explain what other schools are doing because I don't know the true details of their numbers situations.

So we're making assumptions, but you know for sure just can't explain how it's getting done? Not sure why you're being so smug here. We were having a conversation, not a pissing contest.

 

[Sleegro]

I just don't understand why you would have to use a blueshirt if you weren't at the 25 limit anyway. You wouldn't want to pull from the next class if you weren't at 25 in the current. I'm done trying to understand it, seems like nobody outside of university's know for sure. I prefer not having to use Blueshirt's. Eventually you have to get the books straight.

Because we still had blue shirts on the books. So we had a couple guys that counted against the '18 class that we didn't sign in '18. They counted in the class but weren't actual counters for this year. So if we didn't blueshirt anyone this year, we would have hit our limit based on 25-previous blue shirts but we actually had less than 25 initial counters this year.

 

[jasonvol18]

I see people making assumptions and speculations about UT's, UGA's and WVU's numbers situations and how the players are being counted against the limits. I know the rules, how they work and what can and and cannot be done. I can't explain what other schools are doing because I don't know the true details of their numbers situations.

Haven't met a Bammer yet who didn't know everything about everything, so this post isn't surprising. I'll trust the University and school and however they do it. Not a Rivals fan who spends way too much time on a hated rivals message board to show off his much superior intellect. You know it's bad when you're not accepted with your own schools fans and site. But you be the author of your own story even if it would get put with the other fictional books!

 

[Dooby15]

Can’t wait for this kid to wear orange.

 

[LA Vol]

People don't use the same terminology. This came up a while back in another thread. What some people call a blueshirt or a counter isn't what other people are referring to-- so it creates a lot of confusion.

 

[jasonvol18]

Because we still had blue shirts on the books. So we had a couple guys that counted against the '18 class that we didn't sign in '18. They counted in the class but weren't actual counters for this year. So if we didn't blueshirt anyone this year, we would have hit our limit based on 25-previous blue shirts but we actually had less than 25 initial counters this year.

Ah Ok! I liked the old days of recruiting when I understood everything. Every year there's something different that's changed. Just like if a kid can't qualify academically out of HS then you should be able to back count in the next class and use that scholarship too. That's not the schools fault but gets punished for it.

 

[jasonvol18]

People don't use the same terminology. This came up a while back in another thread. What some people call a blueshirt or a counter isn't what other people are referring to-- so it creates a lot of confusion.

Absolutely right. Just to the average fan it can look like one school can do something and another can't. They need to find terminology that only applies to one thing. Thank you for being cobalt on the explanation, unlike the Bammer tool who obviously has written every recruiting byline.

 

[Tidal Surge]

That is the Director of Player Personnel for WVU saying it, not some reporter or MB poster. So I'm inclined to believe he knows the rules. Maybe that is the loophole though. You can use blueshirts to get to 25 players but not go over. That would explain how we did it. And the Deep Dive article you posted earlier even said they were trying to close the loopholes but they weren't completely shut. And even mentioned Tulane being able to back count and take 26 this year which I thought wasn't allowed anymore either.

Generally speaking, blueshirting has been used for the situation where there's room under the 85 limit, but no current cycle initial counter spots left. It can only be used for non-recruited athletes. If there's no current cycle initial counter spots available, there can't be any current academic year signing limit spots either. That's because no player can be an initial counter without also being counted against the signings limit. If a player gets an initial fall scholarship, per the modified signings limit rule they have to be counted against the current academic year's 25 signings limit.

 

[3rdDegreeVol]

Here's a comparison of old and new rules on signings. Changes are bolded.

OLD - 13.9.2.3 Limitation on Number of National Letter of Intent/Offer of Financial Aid Signings—Bowl Subdivision Football. [FBS] In bowl subdivision football, there shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of prospective student-athletes who may sign a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid from December 1 through May 31. [D] (Adopted: 1/16/10 effective 8/1/10, Revised: 1/14/12 effective 8/1/12)

NEW - 13.9.2.3 Limitation on Number of National Letter of Intent/Offer of Financial Aid Signings -- Bowl Subdivision Football. [FBS] In bowl subdivision football, there shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of prospective student-athletes who may sign a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid and student-athletes who may sign a financial aid agreement for the first time.

The time period (which was what enabled student-athletes to go on scholarship after the start of the fall semester was eliminated. Added was the verbiage about financial aid agreements. Previously you could go on scholarship and not count as long as you didn't sign an NLI or offer of aid. This is no longer the case since the bylaw includes financial aid agreements.


OLD - 13.9.2.3.1 Exception—Counter During Same Academic Year. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid and becomes an initial counter for the same academic year in which the signing occurred (e.g., midyear enrollee) shall not count toward the annual limit on signings. (Adopted: 1/14/12 effective 8/1/12)

NEW - 13.9.2.3.1 Application. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided in the fall term of an academic year shall count toward the annual limit on signings for that academic year. A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided during the second or third term of the academic year may count toward the limit for that academic year or the limit for the next academic year. (Adopted: 1/14/12 effective 8/1/12, Revised: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)

Here's another big change. The old rule specified that student-athletes who signed during the year didn't count towards the annual signing limit. The new rule explicitly states that a student-athlete who signs in the fall does count toward the annual signing limit while anyone signing after the first term can count either towards the current year or the next year.

 

[DawgInterloper]

I know the rules, how they work and what can and and cannot be done.

Based on the wording of 13.9.2.3 that you posted above, I believe that rule refers to the 25 initial counter limit, since it uses the definition of an initial counter (those who sign a NLI or a financial agreement for the first time (at that institution). Other bylaws, such as 15.5.6.3.4 (which is still in effect) and others, establish the circumstances under which new signees may exceed 25 in any given year, by counting them forward or backwards.

This is the rule that allows more than 25 new signees to enroll and participate in the fall as UGA has done.

15.5.6.3.4 Nonrecruited Student-Athlete Receiving Institutional Financial Aid. [FBS/FCS] A
student-athlete not recruited (per Bylaw 15.02.8) by the institution who receives institutional financial aid (based in any degree on athletics ability) after beginning football practice becomes a counter but need not be counted as an initial counter until the next academic year if the institution has reached its initial limit for the year in question. However, the student-athlete shall be considered in the total counter limit (this refers to the 85 limit) for the academic year in which the aid was first received.

 

[Tidal Surge]

Absolutely right. Just to the average fan it can look like one school can do something and another can't. They need to find terminology that only applies to one thing. Thank you for being cobalt on the explanation, unlike the Bammer tool who obviously has written every recruiting byline.

You're the one who proclaimed I don't know and understand the rules. I simply insisted that I do. If that makes me a tool then so be it. You're remarks that I quoted above tell me you're realizing now that people sort of misuse key terms, etc. What makes the blueshirting thing confusing is that the signings limit changes were added to the Bylaws, but the pre-existing rules relating to initial counters that enabled the practice of blueshirting didn't get changed. Even though that's still intact in the Bylaws, the signings limit rule changes make it impossible to use blueshirting like you could before.

 

[Big Gucci Sosa]

@Tidal Surge thoughts on him signing at bama?

 

[JacketVol]

I don't think anyone needs to feel the pressure to stop discussing the topic. It is a worthwhile discussion, and I believe your opinion has merit.

We do have many needs and limited spots. I don't think anyone is debating that. I just happen to think that QB is the most important position in the game and I doubt if our staff is comfortable on passing up on a kid with TT's talent with the potential that we enter 2019 with only McBride, Shrout, and Maurer on the roster IF there is an opportunity to land him. Obviously, that means we have to sacrifice a spot in this class for another position, and I didn't mean to insinuate that it would be the "lowest ranked" player (Simmons in this case). Rather, we may only take 2 WRs instead of 3, or 4 DBs instead of 5.

I think they are liking some already on campus in the secondary than what they thought they would. Taylor and Thompson especially so may not go as heavy there.

 

[Tidal Surge]

@Tidal Surge thoughts on him signing at bama?

It's pretty much like he already has. He spends more time on campus at Bama than any recruit ever has. He's been there almost every weekend since Tua enrolled. He's actively recruiting players to Bama for the 2019 and 2020 classes. Taulia and Paul Tyson are very good friends, just like Tua, Jalen Hurts and Mac Jones are. 95% of what the media portrays about Bama's QB competition(s) is manufactured drama.

 

[mrmax86]

Can’t wait for this kid to wear orange.

No, no, no, no. This is the thread for complaining about how many recruits we can sign.

 

[jasonvol18]

You're the one who proclaimed I don't know and understand the rules. I simply insisted that I do. If that makes me a tool then so be it. You're remarks that I quoted above tell me you're realizing now that people sort of misuse key terms, etc. What makes the blueshirting thing confusing is that the signings limit changes were added to the Bylaws, but the pre-existing rules relating to initial counters that enabled the practice of blueshirting didn't get changed. Even though that's still intact in the Bylaws, the signings limit rule changes make it impossible to use blueshirting like you could before.

That makes sense. If it's still being called a blueshirt, but being something different can be confusing. Truthfully, everyone is held to the 85 scholarship rule so there shouldn't be yearly signing limits. If schools are held to 25, but say you lose some underclassman to transfers, academics, off the field issues etc or had a small class the year prior then schools should be able to use the full amount of scholly's available.

Another one for you. We had A kid that signed but didn't make it in. I know you can't back count anymore, but with that leaving us under the 25 limit can one of our grad transfe'sr be used in that available '18 spot? Or does a school get punished because the kid couldn't get in academically and just loses it? That's where not being able to back count anymore sux.

 

[SergeantVol]

I love how everyone is so matter of fact on the number and rules regarding signings but then are surprised when something happens during NSD or throughout the year that they can’t explain. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. You don’t get paid to manipulate the numbers for a university.

 

[3rdDegreeVol]

That makes sense. If it's still being called a blueshirt, but being something different can be confusing. Truthfully, everyone is held to the 85 scholarship rule so there shouldn't be yearly signing limits. If schools are held to 25, but say you lose some underclassman to transfers, academics, off the field issues etc or had a small class the year prior then schools should be able to use the full amount of scholly's available.

Another one for you. We had A kid that signed but didn't make it in. I know you can't back count anymore, but with that leaving us under the 25 limit can one of our grad transfers be used in that available '18 spot? Or does a school get punished because the kid couldn't get in academically and just loses it? That's where not being able to back count any more sux.

They count as a signee but not an initial counter.

 

[jasonvol18]

They count as a signee but not an initial counter.

That's what I figured but wasn't sure. It sux because it's like buying Surf N Turf but not being able to eat it for a year. Schools should get the option to have that scholarship available for a certain time. Like say till August 1st. Then they could add a late signee or use a grad transfer in that spot. Especially if it was the kids fault he couldn't get in. There should be something in place for that situation if the school wants to pursue it.

 

[DawgInterloper]

They count as a signee but not an initial counter.

I'm pretty sure that non-qualifiers who signed a LOI are also initial counters for the year they first signed. Although, I believe they can come back to the same school after JUCO without being an initial counter again.

 

[3rdDegreeVol]

That's what I figured but wasn't sure. It sux because it's like buying Surf N Turf but not being able to eat it for a year. Schools should get the option to have that scholarship available for a certain time. Like say till August 1st. Then they could add a late signee or use a grad transfer in that spot. Especially if it was the kids fault he couldn't get in. There should be something in place for that situation if the school wants to pursue it.

There are a couple of exceptions. Someone, like a PWO, who's been on campus for a year doesn't count. So, you could offer them a scholarship (depending on the counter rules). Also, someone who gets injured after signing also doesn't count.

 

[Dooby15]

No, no, no, no. This is the thread for complaining about how many recruits we can sign.

My apologies. I’ll move along. FWIW I don’t buy for a minute that Hurts and Tua are good friends and Taulia and Tyson are best buddies . Especially after Hurts’ comments. Maybe they are for the cameras.