'19 AL QB Taulia Tagovailoa

[VolFreakJosh]

Which one of those QB’s has been “elite” elsewhere?

I think he meant going by their recruiting rankings.

Cornwell was a 5* QB who was heavily recruited by Butch and the staff.

 

[jasonvol18]

Which one of those QB’s has been “elite” elsewhere?

Exactly, that was my point. They show up elite at Alabama then end up leaving and don't play anywhere else either. Just shows how impossible it is to evaluate how a HS QB will develop in college.

 

[Tidal Surge]

Blueshirts (15.5.6.3.4) — The signings limit (effective for the 2018 cycle) ends the ability for non-recruited (no OV, no off-campus meeting, no NLI; 15.02.8) players to receive fall scholarships (within the 85 limit) and count toward the next year's initial counters limit because they'll count toward the current academic year signing limit.

A deep dive inside the NCAA's tweaked 25-man signing limit and how it could have drastic impacts on rosters

2. Blueshirting a player to manipulate class sizes is no longer an option.

A blueshirt is any non-recruited football player who arrives and acquires a scholarship after preseason camp begins. Although the player is in the same class as other freshmen, under the previous rule, he could have been counted forward into the next signing class, giving coaches a work-around to the 25-player limit. Coaches can no longer count that player forward and must include him in the same class as other freshmen.

The new policy focuses on closing this loophole more than any other, said Kris Richardson, the NCAA associate director for academic and membership affairs.

“This new rule really takes a run at this phenomenon of the blueshirt,” Richardson said. “Those are the young men who are coming in that fall practice on the promise of, ‘I might have a scholarship for you,’ instead of having a scholarship in hand when they come in for fall practice. It could be transfers or high school students who are the good but not great.”

 

[jasonvol18]

Blueshirts (15.5.6.3.4) — The signings limit (effective for the 2018 cycle) ends the ability for non-recruited (no OV, no off-campus meeting, no NLI; 15.02.8) players to receive fall scholarships (within the 85 limit) and count toward the next year's initial counters limit because they'll count toward the current academic year signing limit.

A deep dive inside the NCAA's tweaked 25-man signing limit and how it could have drastic impacts on rosters

2. Blueshirting a player to manipulate class sizes is no longer an option.

A blueshirt is any non-recruited football player who arrives and acquires a scholarship after preseason camp begins. Although the player is in the same class as other freshmen, under the previous rule, he could have been counted forward into the next signing class, giving coaches a work-around to the 25-player limit. Coaches can no longer count that player forward and must include him in the same class as other freshmen.

The new policy focuses on closing this loophole more than any other, said Kris Richardson, the NCAA associate director for academic and membership affairs.

“This new rule really takes a run at this phenomenon of the blueshirt,” Richardson said. “Those are the young men who are coming in that fall practice on the promise of, ‘I might have a scholarship for you,’ instead of having a scholarship in hand when they come in for fall practice. It could be transfers or high school students who are the good but not great.”

You can post this in Every players profile, but still doesn't change the fact it's still being done for the '19 and '20 classes by schools. So there's gotta be ways to do it or it wouldn't be getting done.

 

[Tidal Surge]

You can post this in Every players profile, but still doesn't change the fact it's still being done for the '19 and '20 classes by schools. So there's gotta be ways to do it or it wouldn't be getting done.

Any player who gets an initial scholarship in the fall will count toward the 25 signings limit for the current academic year.

 

[Tidal Surge]

You can post this in Every players profile, but still doesn't change the fact it's still being done for the '19 and '20 classes by schools. So there's gotta be ways to do it or it wouldn't be getting done.

Every player who gets an initial scholarship in the fall will count toward the 25 signings limit for the current academic year.

 

[griddie]

My apologies. That is NOT a guy lol.

 

[Sleegro]

My apologies. That is NOT a guy lol.

It's 2018 man, who are you to say if that's a guy or not.

Jk. Let's not start a debate about that now. Let's keep this thread to discussions about class size only.

 

[DawgInterloper]

Every player who gets an initial scholarship in the fall will count toward the 25 signings limit for the current academic year.

I don't think that's accurate. Schools are still counting current year enrollees forward as initial counters in the next class. Georgia is doing it with at least one transfer, Jay Hayes, and possibly also with Demetris Robertson. Otherwise, UGA would have 26 or 27 initial counters for 2018, which is not allowed. I believe Tennessee is also doing it this year.

I've looked at the rules and don't see anything that prevents a "non-recruited" player from counting forward to the next year class initial counters.

 

[JCLawyerVol]

Sup?

 

[3rdDegreeVol]

You can post this in Every players profile, but still doesn't change the fact it's still being done for the '19 and '20 classes by schools. So there's gotta be ways to do it or it wouldn't be getting done.

If they go on scholarship after the fall semester then they can count towards the next year's class.

 

[Crazy Ivan]

I like Roman Harrison! I know bigger fish are out there for us to maybe reel in, but I think that kid is one hell of an athlete. Small school, no camps, and playing out of position is why this kid is maybe not rated way higher. If all the measurables I've seen for him are accurate...DAMN! They are high 4* measurables. I kind of hope he makes his way through somehow and is a part of this class. 6'2, 240. 4.6 40. Bench over 400. 39' vert. Can we turn that away?

Agreed. I hope we keep him.

 

[Tidal Surge]

I don't think that's accurate. Schools are still counting current year enrollees forward as initial counters in the next class. Georgia is doing it with at least one transfer, Jay Hayes, and possibly also with Demetris Robertson. Otherwise, UGA would have 26 or 27 initial counters for 2018, which is not allowed. I believe Tennessee is also doing it this year.

I've looked at the rules and don't see anything that prevents a "non-recruited" player from counting forward to the next year class initial counters.

The 25 signings per academic year limit is a separate limit from the 25 initial counters and 85 total counters limits.

13.9.2.3 Limitation on the Number of National Letter of Intent/Offer of Financial Aid Signings. [FBS] For the football bowl subdivision, there shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of prospective student-athletes who may sign a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid and student-athletes who may sign a financial aid agreement for the first time. (Revised: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)

13.9.2.3.1 Application. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent (NLI) or an institutional offer of financial aid or student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided in the fall term of an academic year shall count toward the annual limit on signings for that academic year. A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent (NLI) or an institutional offer of financial aid or student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided during the second or third term of the academic year may count toward the limit for that academic year or the next academic year. (Revised: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)

15.02.3 Counter. A “counter” is an individual who is receiving institutional financial aid that is countable against the aid limitations in a sport.

15.02.3.1 Initial Counter. An “initial counter” is a counter who is receiving countable financial aid in a sport for the first time. (See Bylaw 15.5.6.3 in football for instances in which the institution is permitted to defer the counting of such financial aid until the following academic year.)

15.02.8 Recruited Student-Athlete. For purpose of Bylaw 15, a recruited student-athlete is a student-athlete who, as a prospective student-athlete: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) Was provided an official visit to the institution’s campus;
(b) Had an arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with a member of the institution’s coaching staff (including any such encounter with the prospective student-athlete’s parents, relatives or legal guardians); or
(c) Was issued a National Letter of Intent or a written offer of athletically related financial aid by the institution for a regular academic term.

 

[jasonvol18]

Every player who gets an initial scholarship in the fall will count toward the 25 signings limit for the current academic year.

Well there's universities doing in now and in the '20 class that says differently. I know I don't understand the rules and you don't either if there's schools still using them. If you can tell me how it's still being done I'll gladly listen. They wouldn't using them if there wasn't a way to do it.

 

[jasonvol18]

If they go on scholarship after the fall semester then they can count towards the next year's class.

That's how I understand it too. That's what a blueshirt is and several keep saying you can't do it anymore. But it's still being done.

 

[3rdDegreeVol]

That's how I understand it too. That's what a blueshirt is and several keep saying you can't do it anymore. But it's still being done.

A blueshirt was someone who didn't get on scholarship until after they arrived on campus in the fall. So they register for fall classes and then go on scholarship for the fall semester. They didn't count against the current year but rather the following year. That's no longer allowed. A greyshirt is someone who goes on scholarship after the fall semester. They can attend classes in the fall but they're not on scholarship. They can be counted against the current year or the future year. That is still allowed.

edit: all subject to the 25 per year limit on signings, the 25 per limit on initial counters, and the 85 scholarship limit, of course.

 

[DawgInterloper]

The 25 signings per academic year limit (I already posted the Bylaws for it) is a separate limit from the initial counters limit.

Not sure which Bylaw you're referring to, could you post it again? All I know is that Georgia has, by my count, at least 26 new scholarship enrollees on campus right now. The only way to do that is by having one count toward 2019 initial counters.

The rules as I read them establish two limits, the 25 initial counters and the 85 total counters. Which bylaw sets a third limit?

 

[3rdDegreeVol]

The 25 signings per academic year limit is a separate limit from the 25 initial counters and 85 total counters limits.

13.9.2.3 Limitation on the Number of National Letter of Intent/Offer of Financial Aid Signings. [FBS] For the football bowl subdivision, there shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of prospective student-athletes who may sign a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid and student-athletes who may sign a financial aid agreement for the first time. (Revised: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)

13.9.2.3.1 Application. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent (NLI) or an institutional offer of financial aid or student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided in the fall term of an academic year shall count toward the annual limit on signings for that academic year. A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent (NLI) or an institutional offer of financial aid or student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided during the second or third term of the academic year may count toward the limit for that academic year or the next academic year. (Revised: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)

15.02.3 Counter. A “counter” is an individual who is receiving institutional financial aid that is countable against the aid limitations in a sport.

15.02.3.1 Initial Counter. An “initial counter” is a counter who is receiving countable financial aid in a sport for the first time. (See Bylaw 15.5.6.3 in football for instances in which the institution is permitted to defer the counting of such financial aid until the following academic year.)

15.02.8 Recruited Student-Athlete. For purpose of Bylaw 15, a recruited student-athlete is a student-athlete who, as a prospective student-athlete: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) Was provided an official visit to the institution’s campus;
(b) Had an arranged, in-person, off-campus encounter with a member of the institution’s coaching staff (including any such encounter with the prospective student-athlete’s parents, relatives or legal guardians); or
(c) Was issued a National Letter of Intent or a written offer of athletically related financial aid by the institution for a regular academic term.

13.9.2.3 is the signings limit. 15.02.3.1 is the initial counter limit.

 

[Tidal Surge]

That's how I understand it too. That's what a blueshirt is and several keep saying you can't do it anymore. But it's still being done.

Blueshirting = a nonrecruited player going on an initial fall scholarship. Greyshirting = delaying receipt of the initial scholarship until the 2nd term of that academic year.

 

[Sleegro]

Blueshirting = a nonrecruited player going on an initial fall scholarship. Greyshirting = delaying receipt of the initial scholarship until the 2nd term of that academic year.

Then how do you explain this quote from July 23rd 2018?

Yet WVU is also in line to take at least two “blueshirt” players this year in Australian punter Angus Davies and Martinsburg High edge rusher Tavis Lee. The term “blueshirting” is used when players pay for tuition and housing in the summer and are put on scholarship the first day of school. By not signing a national letter of intent before beginning classes, they’re counted toward the following year’s recruiting class. But unlike a “grayshirt” player, they enroll and play right away.

“We’ll have a couple that will fit that category,” said WVU director of player personnel Ryan Dorchester on Monday. “I don’t think it will be every year because you’re not gaining scholarships. They have to count somewhere.”

The practice of blueshirting, however, has been surfacing more and more nationally of late. First unveiled by New Mexico State, schools like Alabama, Tennessee and Marshall have used it. North Carolina State has offered (and had accepted) a blueshirt deal to tight end Kam Walker for 2019, placing him in the 2020 class. Also, in a lengthy piece written by Max Olson of The Athletic, Kansas coach David Beaty detailed how he’s been struggling to get to the 85-player scholarship maximum after hitting Lawrence with but 38 scholarship players in place. He’s hoping to get to 70 this season, still 15 below the maximum.

'Blueshirts' a part of WVU football recruiting lexicon

 

[Tidal Surge]

Well there's universities doing in now and in the '20 class that says differently. I know I don't understand the rules and you don't either if there's schools still using them. If you can tell me how it's still being done I'll gladly listen. They wouldn't using them if there wasn't a way to do it.

You might not understand the rules, but your assumption that I don't is incorrect.

 

[DawgInterloper]

13.9.2.3 is the signings limit. 15.02.3.1 is the initial counter limit.

Still not sure how that's enforced. First, it doesn't say anything about the number who actually enroll in school and receive a scholarship, just signees. It also doesn't say that non-recruited players can't count toward the next year, as specified elsewhere.

UGA had 26 players sign LOI in December plus February, one of whom probably counted back to 2017. Since then we've added two transfers who I presume both have financial aid agreements in place. So that's more than 25 as far as I can tell. Unless those who sign on early signing day (in December) don't count toward 2018.

 

[jasonvol18]

A blueshirt was someone who didn't get on scholarship until after they arrived on campus in the fall. So they register for fall classes and then go on scholarship for the fall semester. They didn't count against the current year but rather the following year. That's no longer allowed. A greyshirt is someone who goes on scholarship after the fall semester. They can attend classes in the fall but they're not on scholarship. They can be counted against the current year or the future year. That is still allowed.

edit: all subject to the 25 per year limit on signings, the 25 per limit on initial counters, and the 85 scholarship limit, of course.

I understand everything but the Blueshirt rules. Teams are still doing it even for the '19 class and using the '20 scholarship for it. We had 2 guys who didn't sign who were said to be Blueshirt's. Brandon Davis and Norwood. Norwood went elsewhere but Davis is here. I'm confused on the Blueshirt stuff because it's still being done and Davis was supposedly our Blueshirt in the '18 class.

 

[Tidal Surge]

Then how do you explain this quote from July 23rd 2018?



'Blueshirts' a part of WVU football recruiting lexicon

The only way they can give fall scholarships to those two non-recruited players that they're refering to as blueshirts is if they have room to do it under the current academic year's 25 signings limit. I think they're calling them blueshirts because they met the non-recruited requirement and couldn't guarantee them that they'd get a fall scholarship. It'll be interesting to see if they really get one.

 

[jasonvol18]

You might not understand the rules, but your assumption that I don't is incorrect.

No I understand you don't know or can't tell me how it's still being done and TN did it this year. So with your obvious self proclaimed, superior Bama intelligence can you tell me how it continues to happen??