Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[zaqhhh]

affecting

There are 100s of typos I can point out over the course of this thread. Care to respond to my point?

 

[0nelilreb]

There are 100s of typos I can point out over the course of this thread. Care to respond to my point?

Speaking of responding ..

 

[zaqhhh]

I didn't blame the doctors for anything but selling them false hope.

What false hope did they sell? They are duty-bound to help save people. Now, in this country they are more profit-hungry than in other places, but still they aren't malicious people.

 

[zaqhhh]

Speaking of responding ..

Its 6 on 1 here, my friend. My apologies if I don't get to everyone's comments.

I also checked my feed and can't see where you replied?

 

[1972 Grad]

So they had cancer? I think you sir may have a responsibility problem my friend. Its not the doctors fault they died, even the strongest of us can't save everyone. At least they got a chance, so many never do.

I had edited my post to which you responded to include that they would have probably died anyway, immediately after I first posted. You responded to my post before my edit.

 

[0nelilreb]

Its 6 on 1 here, my friend. My apologies if I don't get to everyone's comments.

I’m not on you , you are holding your on with very little snide remarks so for ( only a few ) I was just curious how we are going to run the healthcare for all program and save money by getting off the tit of those nasty private companies .

 

[zaqhhh]

I had edited my post to which you responded to include that they would have probably died anyway, immediately after I first posted. You responded to my post before my edit.

Switching the topic a bit, but perhaps we can find middle ground. Do you believe they have a right to die? I.E Physician assisted suicide?

Since there seems to be some beyond Darwinist libertarian people here, I assume we can agree on this (for much different reasons)

 

[0nelilreb]

Switching the topic a bit, but perhaps we can find middle ground. Do you believe they have a right to die? I.E Physician assisted suicide?

Since there seems to be some beyond Darwinist libertarian people here, I assume we can agree on this (for much different reasons)

We have that already it’s called a DNR . That’s the legal way that keeps everyone from law suites being made “ comfortable “ with extra pain meds say for a very bad heart is another .
You can also leave the hospital or care facility anytime you wish .

 

[zaqhhh]

I’m not on you , you are holding your on with very little snide remarks so for ( only a few ) I was just curious how we are going to run the healthcare for all program and save money by getting off the tit of those nasty private companies .

Right now, we use a multi payer system which has way more administrative costs than other nations (ironic because isn't socialized medicine made out to be bureaucratic). It takes way more advanced medical coding and of course a ridiculous insurance system that creates multiplicative cost increases. Beyond that, money would be saved as the government has way more power to negotiate prices with drug companies and hospitals.

Now one obvious point is won't this eliminate some jobs and won't others have to take a pay cut? Some job fields will be cut, others will expand. Physicians especially in specialized fields (both general and specialties make way more than in other nations, specialists about double) will take a cut most likely, which is why the AMA along with the Insurance lobby have already formed a coalition to stop such a campaign in 2020. The American Public Health Association meanwhile has endorsed national care since the 1940s.

 

[0nelilreb]

Right now, we use a multi payer system which has way more administrative costs than other nations (ironic because isn't socialized medicine made out to be bureaucratic). It takes way more advanced medical coding and of course a ridiculous insurance system that creates multiplicative cost increases. Beyond that, money would be saved as the government has way more power to negotiate prices with drug companies and hospitals.

Now one obvious point is won't this eliminate some jobs and won't others have to take a pay cut? Some job fields will be cut, others will expand. Physicians especially in specialized fields (both general and specialties make way more than in other nations, specialists about double) will take a cut most likely, which is why the AMA along with the Insurance lobby have already formed a coalition to stop such a campaign in 2020. The American Public Health Association meanwhile has endorsed national care since the 1940s.

Have you ever seen , heard of or read about our government running an efficient program of any kind ?

 

[1972 Grad]

What false hope did they sell? They are duty-bound to help save people. Now, in this country they are more profit-hungry than in other places, but still they aren't malicious people.

Well, a doctor at Fort Sanders performed a colostomy on my brother , saying that he would "pay for it with his life" if he didn't have the surgery. After the first surgery, he called back a few days later suggesting another surgery the next week. I'm guessing he realized he screwed something up.

After the cancer spread to his liver, the surgeon at Vanderbilt told him that he could get all the cancer out if he removed half his liver. The same surgeon told a lady friend from here the same story. They were both dead in a year after surgery. The same Fort Sanders doctor did a Whipple technique on another friend , now dead, and I think it was for practice. He was old, too far gone, and in no shape for surgery. I have very little respect for those butchers. They oversold what they could do.

Another friend, now dead, had the same type of colon cancer in the exact location as my brother, and refused the colostomy. He lived 8 years on chemo, whereas my brother was cut to pieces and had all kinds of complications and lasted 2 years. At least the doctors and hospitals made good money.

 

[RikidyBones]

@zaqhhh several things here.

1. A majority of health issues aren't life threatening yet can be pretty invasive to fix.

2. You are giving an underperforming entity the final say in what is an emergency and what is not. In a prior post, I gave you a simple story that is true but also common in a place with national healthcare.

3. How many people from Canada or England have you discussed this with? it appears not alot.

 

[zaqhhh]

I am also not purporting that total costs would go down. Per-Capita costs will go down significantly though. Like I have said earlier, I expect the most well-off to pay more and the middle class would need to pay a small amount. I am even ok with the working class having to pay in a minute amount if it makes conservatives feel less triggered.

 

[C-south]

Have you ever seen , heard of or read about our government running an efficient program of any kind ?

He’ll deflect on this one for sure.

 

[zaqhhh]

Well, a doctor at Fort Sanders performed a colostomy on my brother , saying that he would "pay for it with his life" if he didn't have the surgery. After the first surgery, he called back a few days later suggesting another surgery the next week. I'm guessing he realized he screwed something up.

After the cancer spread to his liver, the surgeon at Vanderbilt told him that he could get all the cancer out if he removed half his liver. The same surgeon told a lady friend from here the same story. They were both dead in a year after surgery. The same Fort Sanders doctor did a Whipple technique on another friend , now dead, and I think it was for practice. He was old, too far gone, and in no shape for surgery. I have very little respect for those butchers. They oversold what they could do.

Another friend, now dead, had the same type of colon cancer in the exact location as my brother, and refused the colostomy. He lived 8 years on chemo, whereas my brother was cut to pieces and had all kinds of complications and lasted 2 years. At least the doctors and hospitals made good money.

Sorry to hear about that. I had a sister, who would have died from my brain trauma complications at birth had she not had excellent care. My father had appendicitis complications that also were rather dire and I credit the medical system with saving him (though it cost us nearly 10k). I myself nearly died of a Meningitis as a boy.

 

[C-south]

I am also not purporting that total costs would go down. Per-Capita costs will go down significantly though. Like I have said earlier, I expect the most well-off to pay more and the middle class would need to pay a small amount. I am even ok with the working class having to pay in a minute amount if it makes conservatives feel less triggered.

You need to talk to LG. He suffers from TDS and says a lot of crazy things but he actually has a pretty good tax plan.

 

[RikidyBones]

Unless you are arguing certain state polls or outlying national polls. The vast majority of polls were correct. The right wing in this country just hates anything that even sounds like it's against their beliefs (which in reality who wins the polls/total vote doesn't matter because of the EC).

If you want, you can attack the importance of the polls, but not their validity.

As for sampling size, you have to strike a balance between ease of conduct and size. I try to look at 1000 plus, I agree under 500 is rather low.

lol. lord.. if you really think that, bless your heart.

 

[zaqhhh]

Have you ever seen , heard of or read about our government running an efficient program of any kind ?

When it comes to healthcare, there is no debate. Also, healthcare isn't about efficiency. I want a business to run efficiently (as long as its paying its workers fairly), I want healthcare to run in an equitable and fair fashion. I get what you are saying, but does that mean no government program is worth keeping?

Private insurers care about one thing, profit. The government while inefficient in many respects at least is run by the people (or at has the potential to be). There are a lot of field that I can agree government should not be involved with, healthcare is not one of them.

 

[RikidyBones]

When it comes to healthcare, there is no debate. Also, healthcare isn't about efficiency. I want a business to run efficiently (as long as its paying its workers fairly), I want healthcare to run in an equitable and fair fashion. I get what you are saying, but does that mean no government program is worth keeping?

Private insurers care about one thing, profit. The government while inefficient in many respects at least is run by the people (or at has the potential to be). There are a lot of field that I can agree government should not be involved with, healthcare is not one of them.

government is reliant on funding, therefore, has a limit revenue stream (taxes) and therefore focuses on cost cutting. Let's roll with that.

 

[1972 Grad]

Sorry to hear about that. I had a sister, who would have died from my brain trauma complications at birth had she not had excellent care. My father had appendicitis complications that also were rather dire and I credit the medical system with saving him (though it cost us nearly 10k). I myself nearly died of a Meningitis as a boy.

I spent 50 days and 50 nights, sleeping in a chair, with my brother in different hospital rooms over a 2 year period. I sat in a waiting room through 5 surgeries. I stayed with him at his house the last 30 days of his life, sleeping on an air mattress at the foot of his bed, because he had nobody to take care of him. He would have been way better off without ever having his first surgery. He would have lived just as long, and wouldn't have suffered nearly as much. So, excuse me for not kissing the medical field's collective ass. At least the nurses were caring and kind. That is about as far as I will go.

 

[zaqhhh]

@zaqhhh several things here.

1. A majority of health issues aren't life threatening yet can be pretty invasive to fix.

2. You are giving an underperforming entity the final say in what is an emergency and what is not. In a prior post, I gave you a simple story that is true but also common in a place with national healthcare.

3. How many people from Canada or England have you discussed this with? it appears not alot.

1. National programs focus much more on preventative medicine, when you leave everyone to their own devices they let things (willingly or due to cost) fester. That leads to worse problems down the line and that's why despite being the most medically advanced, the US is one of the most unhealthy nations.

2. It wouldn't matter as much what constitutes an emergency if comprehensive care is covered.

3. Actually, quite wrong. One of my best friends came to the states from England because of a job opportunity. One of his parents biggest complaints was that with healthcare costs, it wasn't much of a increase. They said the NHS had issues, but the US system was awful.
I was born and lived a part of my childhood in Buffalo, NY right across from Canada and have many Canadian friends and the vast majority I have spoken to want to keep their system. The few I have met who critique their system say its not as medically advanced and that there is the occasional wait time, but they see many more Americans seeking care in Canada then vice-versa. Those who do leave Canada to seek care in the US are generally going for an elective procedure (hence, they are well off and want to pay more to avoid waiting, see a top ranked physician etc)

 

[zaqhhh]

I spent 50 days and 50 nights, sleeping in a chair, with my brother in different hospital rooms over a 2 year period. I sat in a waiting room through 5 surgeries. I stayed with him at his house the last 30 days of his life, sleeping on an air mattress at the foot of his bed, because he had nobody to take care of him. He would have been way better off without ever having his first surgery. He would have lived just as long, and wouldn't have suffered nearly as much. So, excuse me for not kissing the medical field's collective ass. At least the nurses were caring and kind. That is about as far as I will go.

The last thing I want you to do is kiss the medical field's ass. That sounds awful and you sound like a great family member. What I want is everyone who needs care to have the chance (you don't have to if you don't want to) to get treatment.

 

[zaqhhh]

This is why I get angry when I hear Ted Cruz talk about national insurance leading to rationed care. We literally ration care more than any other nation. If you are wealthy enough, you get the best care in the world. If you don't have the means, you either go bankrupt or die. I would take more taxes, even wait times, and slight reductions in quality if we just insured everyone.

Let's also be honest here, this is a moot debate. The US is moving towards national care, it may not be in your lifetime. I hope it will be in mine, but my future kids for sure. The debate needs to be on how best we accomplish that, not if we should at all. There are 10 different prominent models of universal care, lets debate the pros and cons of that, not an antiquated system that literally chooses life outcomes based on income.

 

[C-south]

This is why I get angry when I hear Ted Cruz talk about national insurance leading to rationed care. We literally ration care more than any other nation. If you are wealthy enough, you get the best care in the world. If you don't have the means, you either go bankrupt or die. I would take more taxes, even wait times, and slight reductions in quality if we just insured everyone.

Let's also be honest here, this is a mute debate. The US is moving towards national care, it may not be in your lifetime. I hope it will be in mine, but my future kids for sure. The debate needs to be on how best we accomplish that, not if we should at all. There are 10 different prominent models of universal care, lets debate the pros and cons of that, not an antiquated system that literally chooses life outcomes based on income.

It’s moot, we’re all dead in 12 years. The deranged lunatic from the Bronx says so.

 

[1972 Grad]

The last thing I want you to do is kiss the medical field's ass. That sounds awful and you sound like a great family member. What I want is everyone who needs care to have the chance (you don't have to if you don't want to) to get treatment.

What they need to tell people with cancer is that while you are off your chemo having surgery, that your cancer is going to spread, and we will be chasing it around your body, trying to cut it out. And, while we are cutting it out, it will go somewhere else, and somewhere else, etc. They should have done a total scan before the first surgery, instead of operating on the colon, and not checking anywhere else. This same thing has happened over and over, and everybody is dead. I have another friend with lung cancer right now and he will be dead with 3 or 4 months. These people may be able to set a broken bone, but they are limited in many cases.

My mother-in-law went to the E.R. in November, and died 36 hours later, after a Cat Scan. She was old and not in good shape, but she was lucid and walked in under her own power, and was nauseated and unresponsive shortly after the scan. The next day, she was dead. We fully expected to bring her home the same day. We took her to the funeral home instead.