Aliens

#133
#133
kiddiedoc said:
Even as a Creationist and Christian, I agree with this. While there is no evidence of ET life and no Biblical reference to support the existence of other life or intelligent beings, an all-powerful God could certainly create "life" in any form He chose. Nothing would dictate that it has be, in any way, similar to us, require the same habitat, or even have the same physical properties.
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I think creationism proves a stronger case for ET than being alone.

kiddiedoc said:
Not only is the idea dumb, it's also arrogant and belittling towards God.
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Not following. God could easily prefer this type/style of "life".

kiddiedoc said:
Some would argue that the development of life is so unlikely (and us so fortunate with a billion billions of a chance) that only conditions like those on earth would be likely to accommodate such. However, even the perfect conditions here HAVE NEVER shown any promise to explain the origin of life, nor the development of intricately-complex structures and mentation (see: human nervous system and eye).
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You're falling backing into the same line of thinking you are condemning. Those odds are based on life as we know it. Stacking the deck.
 
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#134
#134
I think if there is any doubt as to the evolutionary theory, one needs to look no further than Bryant-Denny Stadium on game day to see some prime examples of a pre-humanoid species waiting to evolve into cognitive beings.
 
#135
#135
Grand Vol said:
I think if there is any doubt as to the evolutionary theory, one needs to look no further than Bryant-Denny Stadium on game day to see some prime examples of a pre-humanoid species waiting to evolve into cognitive beings.
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Some are actively devolving, generation by generation.
 
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#136
#136
PKT_VOL said:
Not following. God could easily prefer this type/style of "life".
*****
You're falling backing into the same line of thinking you are condemning. Those odds are based on life as we know it. Stacking the deck.
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I may not have made my point clearly: it is extremely self-centered for humans to think that a) the only "life" that can exist is that which we know, b) the only conditions that could support life must match those on earth (unless premise "a" is true), and c) the Creator is not capable of creating life in some other form or state.

I think we are agreeing to this point, at least.
 
#137
#137
kiddiedoc said:
Well, yes, you could say that :)

Aside from the relatively-sudden appearance of a great diversity of species in the fossil record, the complete lack of any reasonable evidence of a large civilization/population of primordial man is damning to Darwinian evolutionary theory.

For comparison: look at the footprint humankind has left on the earth in, say, roughly 5,000 years of recorded history. The time required for evolutionary shift and adaptation of "man" would be 100s or 1,000s times that long. Massive groups of pre-human ancestors would have had to roam, settle, and survive for hundreds of thousands of years in order to accumulate the progressive genetic shifts. Yet, no trace remains? It's really hard to understand why so many people cling to the idea.

At this point, it requires more "faith" to believe in evolution than it does to accept what I hold as truth.
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Doc I have posted your end of this argument a dew thousand times in the politics forum. There is an awesome biblical scholar preacher that posts here named Orange Crush that is also very very good at both debate and science as it pertains to this. No avail. Willfully ignorant, pearls and swine , dust kicking...etc etc.

Don't waste your time. Those who refuse to believe don't bother with facts or reason.
 
#138
#138
Not knocking pkt...he is a great poster and usually respectful. Smart too...there are many others who immediately go to ad hominem...insults, self perceived intellectual high ground, etc. Etc

It gets old fast.
 
#139
#139
kiddiedoc said:
I may not have made my point clearly: it is extremely self-centered for humans to think that a) the only "life" that can exist is that which we know, b) the only conditions that could support life must match those on earth (unless premise "a" is true), and c) the Creator is not capable of creating life in some other form or state.

I think we are agreeing to this point, at least.
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On A, B, C we agree. On the other stuff we don't. Like I said in my other post, I think creationism provides a stronger argument for ET than being alone.
 
#140
#140
marcusluvsvols said:
Doc I have posted your end of this argument a dew thousand times in the politics forum. There is an awesome biblical scholar preacher that posts here named Orange Crush that is also very very good at both debate and science as it pertains to this. No avail. Willfully ignorant, pearls and swine , dust kicking...etc etc.

Don't waste your time. Those who refuse to believe don't bother with facts or reason.
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I hear you. I just feel called sometimes to remind that there are intelligent, educated thinkers who believe 100℅ in God, Creation, and His plan. Also, I think it is important to note that much of what is written as scientific fact is still full of glaring holes and inconsistencies.
 
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#141
#141
marcusluvsvols said:
Doc I have posted your end of this argument a dew thousand times in the politics forum. There is an awesome biblical scholar preacher that posts here named Orange Crush that is also very very good at both debate and science as it pertains to this. No avail. Willfully ignorant, pearls and swine , dust kicking...etc etc.

Don't waste your time. Those who refuse to believe don't bother with facts or reason.
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kiddiedoc said:
I hear you. I just feel called sometimes to remind that there are intelligent, educated thinkers who believe 100℅ in God, Creation, and His plan. Also, I think it is important to note that much of what is written as scientific fact is still full of glaring holes and inconsistencies.
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Both of you operate on the assumption God is real and the Bible is correct. Anyway you look at it, it's faith. Marcus, when you say people are willfully ignorant, you are insulting them because they do not share your beliefs(not very Christian-like, imo). Doc, I agree, there are educated thinkers who believe in God, and because of their belief, factor Him into their conclusions.

To say there are holes in the science without acknowledging there are holes in religious beliefs as well, when using those beliefs to factor your theories, is picking and choosing what you consider to be "fact".

Marcus, "those who refuse to believe", they just don't share your faith. They see life differently. Does that make them wrong? No more wrong than you being entitled to your faith. Do you want to be belittled for being a Christian? Would Christ support belittling others? I just find that idea hard to reconcile.

And ftr, I do believe in God, I just believe in giving people latitude to find their own way. We no longer live in an age where adults need to be educated about their religious options. They are more than capable of following their own hearts.
 
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#142
#142
Weezer said:
Doc, I agree, there are educated thinkers who believe in God, and because of their belief, factor Him into their conclusions.
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That's a very sensible post, but I would add to the above that there are also those who study the universe and life as atheists and conclude that there must be, in fact, a divine Maker.

Also, to say that Christians should not share their beliefs with non-believers is asking them to denounce Christ's teachings (Matt 28:19-20). You are certainly correct that we should not belittle others, but to love them "as we love ourselves," which often means forgiving people that wrong us, not attacking back when our beliefs are questioned, and hoping that God will open their eyes to the truth and the path to salvation.

In a day and place where apostasy reigns, it can be difficult to walk in this manner. However, I think that we could do a great deal of favor for the perception of Christianity if we could focus more on loving others and giving more of ourselves, and less on blaming, arguing, and judging.
 
#144
#144
can we get back to aliens? Some of us are looking forward to the probing. Not saying I am one of them but they are among us.
 
#145
#145
Weezer said:
Both of you operate on the assumption God is real and the Bible is correct. Anyway you look at it, it's faith. Marcus, when you say people are willfully ignorant, you are insulting them because they do not share your beliefs(not very Christian-like, imo). Doc, I agree, there are educated thinkers who believe in God, and because of their belief, factor Him into their conclusions.

To say there are holes in the science without acknowledging there are holes in religious beliefs as well, when using those beliefs to factor your theories, is picking and choosing what you consider to be "fact".

Marcus, "those who refuse to believe", they just don't share your faith. They see life differently. Does that make them wrong? No more wrong than you being entitled to your faith. Do you want to be belittled for being a Christian? Would Christ support belittling others? I just find that idea hard to reconcile.

And ftr, I do believe in God, I just believe in giving people latitude to find their own way. We no longer live in an age where adults need to be educated about their religious options. They are more than capable of following their own hearts.
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Weezer j see where you are coming from. Those are not my words though, they are Gods. They should take it up with him. The bible says, to my memory paraphrasing a Lil

In the last days there will be scoffers, willfully ignorant , blinded by their own lusts.for the things of this world.

I find it very true. Many people don't believe simply because they don't want to know the truth. They enjoy their lives the way they are, sin can be fun for a while, and they don't want to change. My sister was this way for a long time. She willfully admitted that she believed in God of the bible but refused to go to church or hear gospel because she didn't want to change the way that she lived.

For a person to admit that there is a higher power, that they are not the pinnacle of life, should require that they change their actions to reflect this. If they believe that God is real, and cares about them, then they would have to consider living in a way that please Him in order to try and please the one who holds the keys to Heaven and Hell, and controls the successes or failure of life as we know it.

I try to be very careful not to tell others how to live on an individual basis. I have sin in my own life and don't ever want to be a hypocrite. There is a difference however between me judging people, which is never ok, and me telling the truth that is revealed in God's word. Hate sin, but love the sinner. While I would never say to a person that they are living in sin and need to do this or that, I will say what God calls wrong or right. For us all. To be a loving witness does not mean to be politically correct, or act like things are moral when they are immoral. An example of this would be gay marriage. On an individual basis, I don't care what people do in their own bedrooms, I have sin of my own to worry about and correct. But when there is an election, and one choice is a politician that sees thIngs from a biblical perspective, and doesn't endorse gay marriage, he is going to get my vote. Hope I could make myself clear and not sound judgmental or hateful. I neither, because I am very flawed in my own right and in no position to judge others. Only God can judge a man, every man .
 
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#147
#147
marcusluvsvols said:
Weezer j see where you are coming from. Those are not my words though, they are Gods. They should take it up with him. The bible says, to my memory paraphrasing a Lil

In the last days there will be scoffers, willfully ignorant , blinded by their own lusts.for the things of this world.

I find it very true. Many people don't believe simply because they don't want to know the truth. They enjoy their lives the way they are, sin can be fun for a while, and they don't want to change. My sister was this way for a long time. She willfully admitted that she believed in God of the bible but refused to go to church or hear gospel because she didn't want to change the way that she lived.

For a person to admit that there is a higher power, that they are not the pinnacle of life, should require that they change their actions to reflect this. If they believe that God is real, and cares about them, then they would have to consider living in a way that please Him in order to try and please the one who holds the keys to Heaven and Hell, and controls the successes or failure of life as we know it.

I try to be very careful not to tell others how to live on an individual basis. I have sin in my own life and don't ever want to be a hypocrite. There is a difference however between me judging people, which is never ok, and me telling the truth that is revealed in God's word. Hate sin, but love the sinner. While I would never say to a person that they are living in sin and need to do this or that, I will say what God calls wrong or right. For us all. To be a loving witness does not mean to be politically correct, or act like things are moral when they are immoral. An example of this would be gay marriage. On an individual basis, I don't care what people do in their own bedrooms, I have sin of my own to worry about and correct. But when there is an election, and one choice is a politician that sees thIngs from a biblical perspective, and doesn't endorse gay marriage, he is going to get my vote. Hope I could make myself clear and not sound judgmental or hateful. I neither, because I am very flawed in my own right and in no position to judge others. Only God can judge a man, every man .
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No, you are assuming they are God's words. In no way can you prove they are or aren't. You are merely believing what someone wrote down thousands of years ago as fact.

As far as your second part, or perhaps the "truth" is hardly convincing to them. Is this something that is pounded into your heads at church, that the main reason people don't believe in God is because they simply just want to ignore it? Not to mention the blatant hypocrisy, as you yourself have demonstrated that you simply refuse to believe the evidence of evolution, and you don't even show a fraction of skepticism towards your religious beliefs that you show towards science.
 
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#148
#148
kiddiedoc said:
Well, yes, you could say that :)

Aside from the relatively-sudden appearance of a great diversity of species in the fossil record, the complete lack of any reasonable evidence of a large civilization/population of primordial man is damning to Darwinian evolutionary theory.

For comparison: look at the footprint humankind has left on the earth in, say, roughly 5,000 years of recorded history. The time required for evolutionary shift and adaptation of "man" would be 100s or 1,000s times that long. Massive groups of pre-human ancestors would have had to roam, settle, and survive for hundreds of thousands of years in order to accumulate the progressive genetic shifts. Yet, no trace remains? It's really hard to understand why so many people cling to the idea.

At this point, it requires more "faith" to believe in evolution than it does to accept what I hold as truth.
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
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#149
#149
marcusluvsvols said:
Doc I have posted your end of this argument a dew thousand times in the politics forum. There is an awesome biblical scholar preacher that posts here named Orange Crush that is also very very good at both debate and science as it pertains to this. No avail. Willfully ignorant, pearls and swine , dust kicking...etc etc.

Don't waste your time. Those who refuse to believe don't bother with facts or reason.
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
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#150
#150
LouderVol said:
can we get back to aliens? Some of us are looking forward to the probing. Not saying I am one of them but they are among us.
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Do you think general biological creationism, not necessarily OT creationism, supports ET or being alone?
 
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