Anyone see the NOVA special last night:Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

#53
#53
rjd970 said:
No, it is a central question of ID that must be addressed. If something complex had to have a designer...the foundation of the theory....then the designer by definition would be complex and need a designer as well.
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This answer tells me where you are coming from on this issue. The logic of your statement excapes me.
 
#54
#54
rjd970 said:
No, it is a central question of ID that must be addressed. If something complex had to have a designer...the foundation of the theory....then the designer by definition would be complex and need a designer as well.
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Why would this be the case if the designer was every where and everything. Even in the case of Christianity God was described as a being who was all places at once and in everything. It was stated more than once that he was beyond comprehension, I don't see that explanation at odds with what we know today through science. I just don't see that there is a need to design the designer, those that wish to prove there is no higher power may feel this need but that line of reasoning is as flawed as someone asking you to prove evolution, which cannot be proven.
 
#55
#55
T-TownVol said:
Yes, like I said before, it takes WAY more faith to believe in man's theory of evolution.
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As a matter of opinion, evolution takes way less faith to believe than that of talking snakes and God creating the universe around the time Egyptians were brewing beer.

But hey, that is just me.
 
#56
#56
rjd970 said:
The timeline of the OT is roughly 6,000 years if you really believe God worked on 7, 24-hour periods to make all of creation.
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Once again you are applying a man made element of time to the words of the Bible. No one said the "days" were 24 hours. Time was established by man much later.
 
#58
#58
rjd970 said:
As a matter of opinion, evolution takes way less faith to believe than that of talking snakes and God creating the universe around the time Egyptians were brewing beer.

But hey, that is just me.
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I think that believing the theory, that man has come up with, to try and explain the world is a giant leap of faith.
 
#59
#59
rjd970 said:
As a matter of opinion, evolution takes way less faith to believe than that of talking snakes and God creating the universe around the time Egyptians were brewing beer.

But hey, that is just me.
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Literal interpretation, it is the same as saying single celled organic life crawled out of an acidic mud puddle and became all that we see today.
 
#60
#60
rjd970 said:
As a matter of opinion, evolution takes way less faith to believe than that of talking snakes and God creating the universe around the time Egyptians were brewing beer.

But hey, that is just me.
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psss.... it was a dragon, it had wings!
​
:hi:
 
#61
#61
KB5252 said:
Why would this be the case if the designer was every where and everything. Even in the case of Christianity God was described as a being who was all places at once and in everything. It was stated more than once that he was beyond comprehension, I don't see that explanation at odds with what we know today through science. I just don't see that there is a need to design the designer, those that wish to prove there is no higher power may feel this need but that line of reasoning is as flawed as someone asking you to prove evolution, which cannot be proven.
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Let me ask you this, and I am being serious.

If you say that the designer can simply be everywhere and everything, and is beyond comprehension. Why can't I say the universe is simply everywhere and everything, and beyond comprehension? And just leave it at that? What good does that really do?

If you are saying that everything had to have a designer, then you absolutely have to address who designed the designer to establish any kind of credibility.

The powerful concept underlying evolutionary thoery is that it is the first theory...being confirmed throughout the last 150 years of scientific advances....that actually postulates that it is possible for something more complex to come from something less complex.
 
#62
#62
KB5252 said:
Literal interpretation, it is the same as saying single celled organic life crawled out of an acidic mud puddle and became all that we see today.
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No, the oceans were green because of all the iron but over 2 billion years algae formed and turned the oceans blue and then our ancestors slushed out.....

And turkeys used to be t-rex!
 
#64
#64
rjd970 said:
Let me ask you this, and I am being serious.

If you say that the designer can simply be everywhere and everything, and is beyond comprehension. Why can't I say the universe is simply everywhere and everything, and beyond comprehension? And just leave it at that? What good does that really do?

If you are saying that everything had to have a designer, then you absolutely have to address who designed the designer to establish any kind of credibility.

The powerful concept underlying evolutionary thoery is that it is the first theory...being confirmed throughout the last 150 years of scientific advances....that actually postulates that it is possible for something more complex to come from something less complex.
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So..... less complex....

trex_render_400x400_01_v2_2.jpg4496b365-fc32-4cf4-a6ad-2c5497c562fdLarge.jpg


to complex

turkey.jpg
 
#66
#66
T-TownVol said:
Once again you are applying a man made element of time to the words of the Bible. No one said the "days" were 24 hours. Time was established by man much later.
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I'm not saying anything, go back and read the thread. Your boy joe was the one spouting this nonsense.
 
#67
#67
rjd970 said:
Let me ask you this, and I am being serious.

If you say that the designer can simply be everywhere and everything, and is beyond comprehension. Why can't I say the universe is simply everywhere and everything, and beyond comprehension? And just leave it at that? What good does that really do?

If you are saying that everything had to have a designer, then you absolutely have to address who designed the designer to establish any kind of credibility.

The powerful concept underlying evolutionary thoery is that it is the first theory...being confirmed throughout the last 150 years of scientific advances....that actually postulates that it is possible for something more complex to come from something less complex.
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....to assume the existance of truth, i.e. - faith
 
#71
#71
rjd970 said:
I'm not saying anything, go back and read the thread. Your boy joe was the one spouting this nonsense.
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You said, "if you believe", I was just pointing out that the Bible never tells us the actual time frame.
 
#72
#72
rjd970 said:
Let me ask you this, and I am being serious.

If you say that the designer can simply be everywhere and everything, and is beyond comprehension. Why can't I say the universe is simply everywhere and everything, and beyond comprehension? And just leave it at that? What good does that really do?
What good does it do to rest your hat on evolution when it can only take you so far back? The theory of evolution is based on the best design and best adaptations carry their genetic code forward, lesser designs either adapt or fail. Where did this first design come from? Where there more than one original design? What good does evolution do us if those questions cannot be answered?
If you are saying that everything had to have a designer, then you absolutely have to address who designed the designer to establish any kind of credibility.

The powerful concept underlying evolutionary thoery is that it is the first theory...being confirmed throughout the last 150 years of scientific advances....that actually postulates that it is possible for something more complex to come from something less complex.
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But just like the big bang it fails to explain how something comes from nothing. In Christianity there is at least the answer I gave earlier.
 
#73
#73
rjd970 said:
ID states that some omnipotent force designed all life. Evolutions says random gene mutations are guided by the natural environment in which the species lives.

Evolution is far more capricious and cruel, but at the same time more correct.

If you want to say a creator guided the evolutionary process, and that is how he "designed" life", that is one thing. But ID doesn't say that.
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100% agree. i have no problem with those saying a greater being started the evolutionary process.
 
#74
#74
KB5252 said:
Why would this be the case if the designer was every where and everything. Even in the case of Christianity God was described as a being who was all places at once and in everything. It was stated more than once that he was beyond comprehension, I don't see that explanation at odds with what we know today through science. I just don't see that there is a need to design the designer, those that wish to prove there is no higher power may feel this need but that line of reasoning is as flawed as someone asking you to prove evolution, which cannot be proven.
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intelligent design can be proven. God said that we would know him through is creation. that's why we have such a battle between evolution and creationism. creation science are saying life was thought out and planned, not randomly generated by luck.

if there was no God, there would be no argument.
 
#75
#75
KB5252 said:
But just like the big bang it fails to explain how something comes from nothing. In Christianity there is at least the answer I gave earlier.
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the christianity answer is simplistic and easy and that is why people like it. (note i am not saying christians are dumb just that people like easy solutions to complex problems)
 
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