Are we ever going to catch Georgia?

[DiderotsGhost]

Georgia has one of the biggest recruiting advantages in the nation. The state of GA is just absolutely loaded and GA Tech has become a 2nd tier program incapable of competing with Georgia for top Atlanta recruits, which benefits UGa even more.

NIL helps us a bit, but it's not like Georgia doesn't have massive loads of NIL money, too, so it may be a bit of a wash. Probably helps us vs LSU, Clemson, and Florida State more so than against Georgia or Bama.

So idk. I don't think anyone in the country is going to beat them on depth. We really have to hope to get an advantage at the skill positions and have good enough depth to compete with them.

Heupel is making the right moves. I just have no clue if we can get to the level Bama-Georgia are at now and sustain success there. Though, I will say we are one of maybe 10 teams that have a shot. The others IMO: Texas, A&M, LSU, Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Penn State, Florida, Oklahoma, maybe Oregon, maybe Clemson (but they seem to be falling behind more and more in the ACC).

 

[Nooga]

Everyone talking about the state of GA being such a recruiting advantage isn’t paying attention to the fact that UGA takes the best players across the nation, not just their state.

In 2023 recruiting class they only signed 4 of the top 50 recruits in Georgia.

 

[Mtnvol80]

So Michigan is mid tier as well?

Have they won anything?

 

[Visidog]

The road to sustained success is paved with recruiting elite linemen and getting great QB play. Clemson may be an exception, but it had the QB and DL with a merely good OL. LSU in 2019 was lightning in a bottle—at some point your skill players may be good enough to win for a year without great line play—but it was a 1-year thing.

 

[DirtyDawg]

Everyone talking about the state of GA being such a recruiting advantage isn’t paying attention to the fact that UGA takes the best players across the nation, not just their state.

In 2023 recruiting class they only signed 4 of the top 50 recruits in Georgia.

This is true, and I’m certainly not a recruiting expert so correct me if I’m wrong or off base. But GA has gotten to the level where they can afford to be picky about scholarships. Also, they don’t necessarily evaluate on the main stream star level.

 

[tncolt55]

Faud Reveiz made an interesting point about our offensive line on the radio the other night. He said with our up tempo offense you will never be able to have a line like georgia or bama because these 340 pound guys cant keep up with the tempo. That actually makes sense to me, I am not a fan of the hurry up offense full time. If you dont get first downs often then you give the opposing team a lot more possessions. We only had the ball 19 mins against georgia, you will not beat any decent team with that stat.

 

[TheDeeble]

Unless we come up with something revolutionary in coaching, offensive strategy, or recruiting then no we probably won’t catch them anytime soon. We and other schools across the nation are all doing the same things for the most part. Georgia is currently so much farther ahead that it’s most likely up to them screwing themselves up for us or anyone else to catch them. Make some bad hires or have a couple years of bad talent eval.

 

[Nooga]

This is true, and I’m certainly not a recruiting expert so correct me if I’m wrong or off base. But GA has gotten to the level where they can afford to be picky about scholarships. Also, they don’t necessarily evaluate on the main stream star level.

Yep you look at the guys that UGA takes now that are mid-3/low-4 stars at time of commitment that turn into stars once they leave college. Kirby’s found some secret sauce to identify kids with the requisite talent base that have the drive and determination to work hard and take the tough coaching.

 

[volbound1700]

Unless we come up with something revolutionary in coaching, offensive strategy, or recruiting then no we probably won’t catch them anytime soon. We and other schools across the nation are all doing the same things for the most part. Georgia is currently so much farther ahead that it’s most likely up to them screwing themselves up for us or anyone else to catch them. Make some bad hires or have a couple years of bad talent eval.

The other path is to just get an obscene QB like Cam Newton or Joe Burrow that can turn our team into a Title Contender. I think that is what we are banking on with Nico. That one year breakthrough.

 

[LittleVol]

Thread says it. Are we ever really going to catch them? I don’t think so. People can talk about the portal and NIL all you want. It’s not
Leveling anything. All it’s doing is making the rich richer. I mean how long has it been since we have owned UGA? Well let’s look at facts.

Since 2000, we are 6-18 against UGA. And let’s face facts. The UGA that Heupel is going against is VASTLY better than ANY UGA team Fulmer or anyone else faced. I mean Butch beat UGA in 2015 and 2016. I mean really? That was Riches last year and Kirby’s first ever with a true FR QB. In 2016 we needed a pure luck play to beat them.

We know UGA will recruit nothing less than top 3 from here on out. So how do we overcome that?

We don't.

Not with Heupel as coach. Hopefully we get lucky one year.

Georgia looks like another 2009- 2020 Alabama type dynasty. Trade Saban for Smart

 

[DiderotsGhost]

Everyone talking about the state of GA being such a recruiting advantage isn’t paying attention to the fact that UGA takes the best players across the nation, not just their state.

In 2023 recruiting class they only signed 4 of the top 50 recruits in Georgia.

They took 3 out of the 10 GA recruits in '23.
4/10 in '22
7/11 in '21

If you don't think get "first dibs" on Georgia isn't a big recruiting advantage, you're delusional.

There's a reason why Georgia is a national power and not Kentucky or Arkansas. Yes, they can take top prospects from across the nation, but it starts with loading up on elite prospects from Georgia, which then makes other top talent want to play there. They couldn't pull the same thing off at Nebraska or Colorado.

It's the 2nd best recruiting advantage in the nation -- the only bigger one IMO is LSU.

 

[Visidog]

They took 3 out of the 10 GA recruits in '23.
4/10 in '22
7/11 in '21

If you don't think get "first dibs" on Georgia isn't a big recruiting advantage, you're delusional.

There's a reason why Georgia is a national power and not Kentucky or Arkansas. Yes, they can take top prospects from across the nation, but it starts with loading up on elite prospects from Georgia, which then makes other top talent want to play there. They couldn't pull the same thing off at Nebraska or Colorado.

It's the 2nd best recruiting advantage in the nation -- the only bigger one IMO is LSU.

Geography certainly plays a role, but it can also be exaggerated. Bama recruits like crazy and that state doesn’t produce nearly as many players as Georgia (and Auburn gets its share). For every talent-rich Texas, there is an Oregon.

Top programs recruit nationally—just look at Nico. I think having rich home state recruiting is an advantage but not a major one.

 

[Nooga]

They took 3 out of the 10 GA recruits in '23.
4/10 in '22
7/11 in '21

If you don't think get "first dibs" on Georgia isn't a big recruiting advantage, you're delusional.

There's a reason why Georgia is a national power and not Kentucky or Arkansas. Yes, they can take top prospects from across the nation, but it starts with loading up on elite prospects from Georgia, which then makes other top talent want to play there. They couldn't pull the same thing off at Nebraska or Colorado.

It's the 2nd best recruiting advantage in the nation -- the only bigger one IMO is LSU.

All good points. I just think folks here think that the majority of the UGA class is high ranked players from GA. They ignore the fact that the 2023 class had the #1 player from Alabama and South Carolina, the #2 from Massachusetts, #3 & #5 from Florida, #4 out of North Carolina, and #5 from Pennsylvania.

To compete for the NATIONAL championship you have to recruit nationally.

 

[adam.vol]

It doesn’t matter how Iong Kirby coaches for. The game changes from time to time. What matters is whether the conference and the NCAA changes in a way that benefits teams like Bama and Georgia, or whether it benefits the challengers. Notice that the SEC and Saban are trying like hell to keep Heupel’s offense in check.

 

[DirtyDawg]

It doesn’t matter how Iong Kirby coaches for. The game changes from time to time. What matters is whether the conference and the NCAA changes in a way that benefits teams like Bama and Georgia, or whether it benefits the challengers. Notice that the SEC and Saban are trying like hell to keep Heupel’s offense in check.

Is that the case? I’m honestly not trying to say different, but why do you think this is the case?

 

[DiderotsGhost]

Geography certainly plays a role, but it can also be exaggerated. Bama recruits like crazy and that state doesn’t produce nearly as many players as Georgia (and Auburn gets its share). For every talent-rich Texas, there is an Oregon.

Top programs recruit nationally—just look at Nico. I think having rich home state recruiting is an advantage but not a major one.

Yes, but we're talking ceiling vs floor.

Programs like Georgia and LSU never truly have "down cycles" in talent. Because they have such easy access to talent, even an idiot could win 7+ games at those programs. Hell, Ed Orgeron won a freaking national title at LSU! The same Ed Orgeron who went 10-25 at Ole Miss!

Whereas, if Bama, Tennessee, and Oregon hire bad coaches, recruiting declines, and results drop like a rock (as we saw in the 10s).

So yeah ... Bama, UT, and Oregon can recruit #1 classes without a doubt. We all have sky-high ceilings. But all of our floors are much, much lower than Georgia and LSU. If Saban retires tomorrow and Bama hires Derek Dooley, they probably barely scratch the top 25 in recruiting. Whereas, if Kirby is replaced by Dooley, he still probably gets a top 10'ish class.

You have to be legitimately awful to recruit poorly at Georgia.

 

[Undercs]

All I’m saying is is that Auburn is Bama or UGA, Arkansas isn’t Florida ir even Kentucky. I’m am strictly talking about SEC schedules that no one else plays. Over the last couple years UT has played the top west teams, where as schools like Mizzou gets Arkansas as a cross rival. When Bama is our cross on top of other top 10 teams rhat makes it tough for the Vols. It’s almost like the pollsters know not as well that’s why they kept us at #25.
Not many would come out with a winning record this year against; #1 UGA, #8 Bama, #10 Mizzou, aTm, Florida, and UK. Even though aTm, Florida and UK are having down year, they all still have a lot of talent and are capable of beating ranked teams. There is only 1 school that regularly plays a similar SEC schedule to the Vols and that’s Auburn. But other than that Bama and UGA has a scheduling advantage over the Vols when you just speak on SEC schedule. If Bama and UGA played each other every year, that would make sure one of them would lose.

Who else on the East has played Bama, LSU, Ole Miss, and aTm over the last 3 years? Also add UGA to that bunch and now top 10 Mizzou and those games are guanlets. Now with expansion and divisions going away, I’m hoping it balances out the schedules more between all the teams in the SEC.

South Carolina has an equally tough schedule imo.

 

[Mtnvol80]

Unless we come up with something revolutionary in coaching, offensive strategy, or recruiting then no we probably won’t catch them anytime soon. We and other schools across the nation are all doing the same things for the most part. Georgia is currently so much farther ahead that it’s most likely up to them screwing themselves up for us or anyone else to catch them. Make some bad hires or have a couple years of bad talent eval.

Need the same thing to happen to them that happened to clemson and a smaller degree bama; coordinators getting poached for head coaching jobs. That's been the most impressive part of Saban. It's caught up to him recently but the machine is still rolling just not as dominant. Dabo losing Venables and ignoring the portal and NIL is his downfall. Venables name has also been thrown around for sign stealing. Not have a QB like Lawrence and Watson doesn't help either

 

[Visidog]

Yes, but we're talking ceiling vs floor.

Programs like Georgia and LSU never truly have "down cycles" in talent. Because they have such easy access to talent, even an idiot could win 7+ games at those programs. Hell, Ed Orgeron won a freaking national title at LSU! The same Ed Orgeron who went 10-25 at Ole Miss!

Whereas, if Bama, Tennessee, and Oregon hire bad coaches, recruiting declines, and results drop like a rock (as we saw in the 10s).

So yeah ... Bama, UT, and Oregon can recruit #1 classes without a doubt. We all have sky-high ceilings. But all of our floors are much, much lower than Georgia and LSU. If Saban retires tomorrow and Bama hires Derek Dooley, they probably barely scratch the top 25 in recruiting. Whereas, if Kirby is replaced by Dooley, he still probably gets a top 10'ish class.

You have to be legitimately awful to recruit poorly at Georgia.

I think we agree. Top 10 classes are fine, but it’s hard to sustain success with them (at least before the expanded playoff arrives).

 

[secking]

You say let’s look at facts? Well let’s do exactly that when we talking about closing the talent gap.

Since 2021 UT has been gutted for what talent they did have and lost it. After Pruitt was fired UT had 35 or so players transfer, recruits de-committing, and having to vacate scholarships due to Pruitts behavior. That has been the biggest difference between UT and UGA and Bama over the last 2 years. Our starters have been as good as anyone else starters most times. But when the game gets into the 2nd half, either teams come back from being behind, or they pull away. This year we have 4 losses where the Vols were either leading or only down by 14 or less at half. 2nd half comes and our starters are worn out for having to play as much, and our rotational players are not near as good as other teams due to lack of depth.

35+28= 63 scholarship players lost due to transfers and scholarship reductions since 2021. NCAA only allows 85 scholarship players. Up till spring of last year, you could only sign 25 players per cycle and now it’s 32. Heupel has not had enough time to rebuild the depth to be Competive with the top teams for the entire game. When you look at UGA you see 4* and 5*’s at every position in their 2 and 3 deep. When they sub, they don’t have a drop in talent. When the Vols sub, it’s not even close to what they replaced at most positions.

Injuries have been a big issue this year that has most definitely caused the Vols some problems. The Vols have not had the same starting 22 players since the 1st game of the year. Our WR’s have been bad this year with dropping passes and can’t get separation, and our only bright spot was Bru McCoy and he goes down for the year. Then when it appears Thornton is finally getting healthy and playing well, he goes down for the year. Our running backs are great, but when UGA and Mizzou knows we can’t pass it, they have no reason to play it and just solely concentrate on the run and force us to beat them through the air and we can’t yet. Then look at the defensive side of the ball and we have starters and key backups like Arion Carter out for the year.

Expectations- When Heup took the job, most everyone just wanted a bowl game for years 1 and 2 as we all knew it was gonna take time to fix the mess he inherited. I remember everyone saying he would need 4 full recruiting classes, and need year 5 to actually tell what kind of coach we have and before we can start actually judging him. But the Heup man had other plans and it’s great. In year 2 he done the unthinkable and took the tram to a NY6 bowl game. Even after the small success we had the year before, we still wasn’t expecting 11 wins and competing for the CFP so quick. In fact most fans would have been satisfied for 9 wins and going to good bowl and keep showing improvement because they all knew just how bad the team was he took over and the depth issues we had. Now with all the success and the over achieving Heupel and this team has accomplished, everyone forgot that we still have real depth issues that are not fixed and all of sudden changed to borderline expectations after losing all the talent we did to the NFL. The Vols are not at the point YET where we can replace NFL talent the next year because of depth.

The pre season expectations for the Vols this year was 9-3 to 8-4 according to ESPN FPI. And we can still accomplish this and with a bowl game win 9 games. We have only lost 1 game this year that we was the favorite to win before the season. ESPN FPI projections had us losing to Florida, Bama, and UGA. Had us as a toss up with Kentucky but we was barely favored. Mizzou was the only game the FPI was wrong about. Many experts were wrong about Mizzou as they was picked to finish 6th in the east.

4 losses:
#1 UGA
#8 Bama
#10 Mizzou
Florida

UT is the only team in the country that has to play UF, UGA and Bama every season. Also how many teams have played 3 top 10 teams already? There’s only a hand full of teams in the entire country that can come out of this 4 game stretch with a winning record, and 2 of them are on this list. Not everyone can have Auburn, or Arkansas as their cross permanent team like Mizzou and UGA.

The last 3 years the Vols have played Bama(x3) Ole Miss, LSU, and aTm. UGA has played Bama(x1), Auburn(x3), Miss State, and Ole Miss. Mizzou has played Arkansas(x3), aTm, Auburn, and LSU. No one plays the same schedule as we do and we have to take that into consideration when we talk about expectations when Heup has been on the job less than 3 years. Imagine swapping our cross rival with Arkansas, Auburn or Miss State? What would UGA or Bama record be every year if they had to play each other every year plus other top teams. Bama and UGA both have scheduling advantages against the Vols also.

Anyways have a great night and know the future is bright and need to give Heupel the time to really build the depth. He has been recruiting well the last 2 years and let’s see what we do over the next 3 years visored to the previous 3 years.

There is no limit on how many you can bring in. You can bring in 85 new guys through portal and high school. Colorado brought in 86 new players this past season. Only 10 remained from last season.

32 number has been arbitrary as has the 25 number as back counting, blueshirt, grayshirts, etc have been going on since Ole Miss brought in 39 high school recruits.

They had to abolish any cap # bc of transfers, there has been over 1,000 kids left in limbo in the portal each year with no school to go to.

 

[adam.vol]

Is that the case? I’m honestly not trying to say different, but why do you think this is the case?

I don’t believe people like Fulmer got sloppy at coaching. I believe the rules changed the best way to play the game and guys like Fulmer failed to adapt quickly enough.

The NCAA and various conferences get together every season to decide what rules they will emphasize. This also means they decide which rules they don’t think are as important as they were in seasons before. They may decide that pass interference needs to take a back seat to hands to the face or holds.. There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to it, but it does happen before every season. Either way, the way the game is officiated effects the best way to play the game.

 

[VolMarine1371]

There is no limit on how many you can bring in. You can bring in 85 new guys through portal and high school. Colorado brought in 86 new players this past season. Only 10 remained from last season.

32 number has been arbitrary as has the 25 number as back counting, blueshirt, grayshirts, etc have been going on since Ole Miss brought in 39 high school recruits.

They had to abolish any cap # bc of transfers, there has been over 1,000 kids left in limbo in the portal each year with no school to go to.

The ncaa scholarship limit is 85. You can have as many guys as you want, but only 85 can be in scholarship. Also you can only sign 32 scholarships every cycle, but you can have as many walk on’s as you want. I have attached a brief summary screen shot of what the limits are now let NCAA.

 

[The Original Fade]

Thread says it. Are we ever really going to catch them? I don’t think so. People can talk about the portal and NIL all you want. It’s not
Leveling anything. All it’s doing is making the rich richer. I mean how long has it been since we have owned UGA? Well let’s look at facts.

Since 2000, we are 6-18 against UGA. And let’s face facts. The UGA that Heupel is going against is VASTLY better than ANY UGA team Fulmer or anyone else faced. I mean Butch beat UGA in 2015 and 2016. I mean really? That was Riches last year and Kirby’s first ever with a true FR QB. In 2016 we needed a pure luck play to beat them.

We know UGA will recruit nothing less than top 3 from here on out. So how do we overcome that?

Football is cyclical. Bama sucked in the early to mid 2000s and UGA sucked in the 90s

 

[secking]

The ncaa scholarship limit is 85. You can have as many guys as you want, but only 85 can be in scholarship. Also you can only sign 32 scholarships every cycle, but you can have as many walk on’s as you want. I have attached a brief summary screen shot of what the limits are now let NCAA.

Colorado took in 86 players this year. Are they all on scholly? No. Technically, you have 125 players allowed on your team, 85 on scholarship. The rest are worked out by blueshirts, greyshirts, or walk ons. “Shirt” players simply mean they go on scholly at a later date. So, technically not a scholly player year one, but still guaranteed they will receive one when it becomes available the next year. Coaches work around the 85 # and the limited # per class. I can show you dozens of schools in the last 5 years, including TN.

Your 32 cap is also old, In spring, it was abolished, thus Colorado and the like. They had to, at the time over 1500 transfer kids had nowhere to go. No room at the inn if everyone stuck to their cap numbers.

“The NCAA's Division I Council voted Wednesday to eliminate the annual limits on initial
counters, the number of new scholarship players a program can add each offseason.”

So yeah, you are free to sign as many as you want.

If all this wasn’t enough, Covid players do NOT count against your 85, so however many players that should have graduated but was given the extra Covid year could remain on scholarship. Thus, Hooker and Bennett last year using Covid years and also so many kids coming back this year.

This year, you could technically have 110 kids on scholarship if 25 were Covid (super seniors). Same holds true for next year. TN has guys who can come back and not count against the 85. 2024 should be the last year this is allowed. Basically everyone had around 100 kids on scholly this year give or take.

 

[DarkVolder]

What’s another chip for Saban? Nothing. I’m with you. I don’t want a UGA 3-peat. We will never hear the end of it. Last year’s team almost lost to Ohio State. Someone will get them this year, just not us unfortunately.

Bama is only one that I can see that has a chance to beat them. If Georgia beats Bama in two weeks they will 3 peat and if that happens yea the leg humpers will be unbearable.