Army Female recruits can't pass the physical

#252
#252
hog88 said:
Nowadays with the body armor they have I bet they're humping even more weight.
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That’s a good point. I read somewhere that the modern US infantrymen carries the same approximate weight into battle as a late medieval period mounted knight. Kinda crazy. That knight would have had the benefit of fighting mostly on horseback.
 
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#253
#253
lukeneyland said:
That’s a good point. I read somewhere that the modern US infantrymen carries the same approximate weight into battle as a late medieval period mounted knight. Kinda crazy. That knight would have had the benefit of fighting mostly on horseback.
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If you haven't read about the Battle of Agincourt, you should check it out. The English were withdrawing and being chased and harassed by the French (very basic interpretation) and the English deployed their archers more or less ambush style covering a boggy patch. The mounted French knights in armor were bogged down and the English archers had a field day. We probably depend too much on equipment and too little on people especially when we do that thing about preparing for the last war and fighting a very different one the next time. I think the History Channel did a good program about it.
 
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#254
#254
AM64 said:
If you haven't read about the Battle of Agincourt, you should check it out. The English were withdrawing and being chased and harassed by the French (very basic interpretation) and the English deployed their archers more or less ambush style covering a boggy patch. The mounted French knights in armor were bogged down and the English archers had a field day. We probably depend too much on equipment and too little on people especially when we do that thing about preparing for the last war and fighting a very different one the next time. I think the History Channel did a good program about it.
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That’s funny you mention that. I have done a fair bit of reading or listening about it. What’s always astounded me is how did the arrows of the English seriously effect the fully armored French knights. I can see it killing their horses, but I do know that the main French attack was actually made by dismounted knights. It just doesn’t seem like those arrows would have had an appreciable effect on the knights, aside from a lucky shot through the eye slot or neck ( funny because Henry was wounded in the face by that very thing) anyway the arrows must’ve done something because the French were slaughtered. I wonder what percentage of the French charge was heavily armored? My understanding is that the charge was mostly composed of Noble men who would have had excellent armor. It’s very interesting to me, partially because the outcome defies reason in so many ways
 
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#255
#255
AM64 said:
If you haven't read about the Battle of Agincourt, you should check it out. The English were withdrawing and being chased and harassed by the French (very basic interpretation) and the English deployed their archers more or less ambush style covering a boggy patch. The mounted French knights in armor were bogged down and the English archers had a field day. We probably depend too much on equipment and too little on people especially when we do that thing about preparing for the last war and fighting a very different one the next time. I think the History Channel did a good program about it.
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That’s awesome you brought that up. I was literally listening to a presentation about it on my way from Austin yesterday.
 
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#256
#256
VolStrom said:
Septic must have a spell checker app that scans the forums for mis-spelled words. My computer is underlining mis-spelled, is that correct or is it misspelled?
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misspelled is accurate.
 
#257
#257
lukeneyland said:
That’s funny you mention that. I have done a fair bit of reading or listening about it. What’s always astounded me is how did the arrows of the English seriously effect the fully armored French knights. I can see it killing their horses, but I do know that the main French attack was actually made by dismounted knights. It just doesn’t seem like those arrows would have had an appreciable effect on the knights, aside from a lucky shot through the eye slot or neck ( funny because Henry was wounded in the face by that very thing) anyway the arrows must’ve done something because the French were slaughtered. I wonder what percentage of the French charge was heavily armored? My understanding is that the charge was mostly composed of Noble men who would have had excellent armor. It’s very interesting to me, partially because the outcome defies reason in so many ways
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Interesting video.

Arrows vs Armour – Agincourt Myth Busting
 
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#258
#258
AM64 said:
If you haven't read about the Battle of Agincourt, you should check it out. The English were withdrawing and being chased and harassed by the French (very basic interpretation) and the English deployed their archers more or less ambush style covering a boggy patch. The mounted French knights in armor were bogged down and the English archers had a field day. We probably depend too much on equipment and too little on people especially when we do that thing about preparing for the last war and fighting a very different one the next time. I think the History Channel did a good program about it.
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How do you think the archers effected the French charge? Every test I’ve seen shows that even bodkins won’t pierce plate, but maybe armor wasn’t quite as expertly hardened back then?
 
#260
#260
lukeneyland said:
That’s funny you mention that. I have done a fair bit of reading or listening about it. What’s always astounded me is how did the arrows of the English seriously effect the fully armored French knights. I can see it killing their horses, but I do know that the main French attack was actually made by dismounted knights. It just doesn’t seem like those arrows would have had an appreciable effect on the knights, aside from a lucky shot through the eye slot or neck ( funny because Henry was wounded in the face by that very thing) anyway the arrows must’ve done something because the French were slaughtered. I wonder what percentage of the French charge was heavily armored? My understanding is that the charge was mostly composed of Noble men who would have had excellent armor. It’s very interesting to me, partially because the outcome defies reason in so many ways
Click to expand...

I guess the specifics are one of those things lost to history, but I got the impression that the knights once down and encumbered by their armor were no match for more mobile opponents. I've always thought it was a spin on when your enemy is destroying himself (retreating in this case) stay out of his way. To me Chattanooga/Chickamauga was the final turning point of the civil war - where all was lost, and the south missed the opportunity to destroy the retreating northern army before they could rest and reestablish themselves in Chattanooga. Of course, it could have turned into an Agincourt, too - you never know. One slip can change an outcome.
 
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#261
#261
AM64 said:
I guess the specifics are one of those things lost to history, but I got the impression that the knights once down and encumbered by their armor were no match for more mobile opponents. I've always thought it was a spin on when your enemy is destroying himself (retreating in this case) stay out of his way. To me Chattanooga/Chickamauga was the final turning point of the civil war - where all was lost, and the south missed the opportunity to destroy the retreating northern army before they could rest and reestablish themselves in Chattanooga. Of course, it could have turned into an Agincourt, too - you never know. One slip can change an outcome.
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For some reason I associate the Duke of Brabant with Patrick Cleburne after reading what you typed. I’d kill for a good modern Agincourt movie. The King was a joke on Netflix
 
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#262
#262
lukeneyland said:
How do you think the archers effected the French charge? Every test I’ve seen shows that even bodkins won’t pierce plate, but maybe armor wasn’t quite as expertly hardened back then?
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Good question, but in congested space with little mobility, the knight's armor may well have worked against them - especially if they fell. Something like a turtle on its back but better protected.
 
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#263
#263
AM64 said:
Good question, but in congested space with little mobility, the knight's armor may well have worked against them - especially if they fell. Something like a turtle on its back but better protected.
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So far my conclusion is that enough of them were funneled together by the terrain and the enfilading fire of the archers that they crushed and drowned each other to death or incapacitation in the mud. But even that seems far fetched . Conversations like this are why the politics forum interest me, you never know what cool stuff you can talk about
 
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#264
#264
C-south said:
We see it in everyday life and jobs as well. Women are put in positions they aren’t qualified for and men have to pick up the slack. I’m sure the situation could be reversed but I’ve never witnessed it.
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The reverse is most definitely also true. I see it in my line of work daily. Good ol’ boys getting promoted because of who they know and who they play golf with rather than work ethic and ability, meanwhile the woman is working circles around him! It really depends on the industry/ career field.
 
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#265
#265
SumSoonerChick said:
The reverse is most definitely also true. I see it in my line of work daily. Good ol’ boys getting promoted because of who they know and who they play golf with rather than work ethic and ability, meanwhile the woman is working circles around him! It really depends on the industry/ career field.
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So in other words it's working like God intended.
 
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#266
#266
lukeneyland said:
I’ve seen that good suggestion though! I base lots of what I think that I know based off of what he demonstrated
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Random fact: The term "Band of Brothers" (great show/book) comes from the king's "St. Crispin's Day Speech" used to motivate his army before the Battle of Agincourt in Shakespeare's "Henry V."
 
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#267
#267
lukeneyland said:
So far my conclusion is that enough of them were funneled together by the terrain and the enfilading fire of the archers that they crushed and drowned each other to death or incapacitation in the mud. But even that seems far fetched . Conversations like this are why the politics forum interest me, you never know what cool stuff you can talk about
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My reading tends to go in streaks, so I haven't thought a lot about Agincourt or the civil war for a while. When I go south out of Chattanooga, I generally take Cherokee Valley Rd to Hwy 41 to I-75. When I look to my right for traffic before turning left on 41, I always remember there is a marker about Patrick Cleburne back around the around the Hwy41 bend. He was an interesting guy - the south failed to use a few like him to their best benefit.
 
#273
#273
AM64 said:
My reading tends to go in streaks, so I haven't thought a lot about Agincourt or the civil war for a while. When I go south out of Chattanooga, I generally take Cherokee Valley Rd to Hwy 41 to I-75. When I look to my right for traffic before turning left on 41, I always remember there is a marker about Patrick Cleburne back around the around the Hwy41 bend. He was an interesting guy - the south failed to use a few like him to their best benefit.
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Cleburne is one of my favorites. I read that his last words or something close to that were “ if we are to die then let us die like men” after saying that he personally led a charge against a fortified Yankee position and was shot dead moments later. Talk about the bravest of the brave, the man knew exactly what was going to happen yet felt obliged to share the fate of his men
 
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#274
#274
AM64 said:
I guess the specifics are one of those things lost to history, but I got the impression that the knights once down and encumbered by their armor were no match for more mobile opponents. I've always thought it was a spin on when your enemy is destroying himself (retreating in this case) stay out of his way. To me Chattanooga/Chickamauga was the final turning point of the civil war - where all was lost, and the south missed the opportunity to destroy the retreating northern army before they could rest and reestablish themselves in Chattanooga. Of course, it could have turned into an Agincourt, too - you never know. One slip can change an outcome.
Click to expand...

I think the same thing happended at Shiloh. They could of pressed the attack late that day but waited and by then Grant was reinforced. And maybe Grant does not replaxce McClellan and as he fidgets, DC is overrun..
 
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